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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: How to attract more people into H3
Thread: How to attract more people into H3 This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT»
Yasmiel
Yasmiel


Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
posted April 25, 2007 09:03 PM
Edited by Yasmiel at 21:05, 25 Apr 2007.

I never liked gamespy (or zone or any global multiplayer games)...
reason for it is that its players (since they are mostly good) force you to use annoying repetitive action like chaining of troops.

Out of 300 H3 games i play, 1 would be vs "experts", since i have no patience to do more than one as they call it "good game" per year.

Best multiplayer in h3 is when all players involved are not skilled enough ... those are the games and times i miss.

I tried to lure few friends that play h3 into online gaming but they stopped playing after realizing this same thing...
H3 lives mostly on hot seat games and LAN games imho.. where people have their own rules..

Note that his is just a mere observation so in reality it can be far from truth.


i wonder how many players on gamespy would agree to play with the rule "no chaining" (yes i know its wide term and its not strictly determined is something simply giving of troops or chaining)
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 25, 2007 10:06 PM

There are some specific kind of games which restrict the amount of heroes, therefor the amount of chaining.

1."Natives"
Only heros which belong to your starting town are allowed to be bought. You can only buy ONE additional hero each week.

2. "1 Hero"
You play the whole game with 1 hero only.

3. "4 Hero"
You are allowed to buy as many heroes as u want (can afford) day 1 . At the end of day 1, u keep the best 4 heroes of your choice and dismiss all others. You are not allowed to buy any more heroes the whole game.

4. "short time limit"
Set the time limit for each turn to 1 or 2 minutes. That way, chaining is not possible that much. This kind of game is a question of taste though. It makes the game very different.
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sag
sag


Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
posted April 26, 2007 08:17 AM

Quote:
There are some specific kind of games which restrict the amount of heroes, therefor the amount of chaining.

1."Natives"
Only heros which belong to your starting town are allowed to be bought. You can only buy ONE additional hero each week.

2. "1 Hero"
You play the whole game with 1 hero only.

3. "4 Hero"
You are allowed to buy as many heroes as u want (can afford) day 1 . At the end of day 1, u keep the best 4 heroes of your choice and dismiss all others. You are not allowed to buy any more heroes the whole game.

4. "short time limit"
Set the time limit for each turn to 1 or 2 minutes. That way, chaining is not possible that much. This kind of game is a question of taste though. It makes the game very different.

Great reply, Angelito!

Quote:
lol I allways played heroes 3 with my neighbour since 2000 but never thought of playing online i am really sorry missed playing heroes online  and know that everyone plying heroes 3 isi pro I wont have fun

Well you can quickly raise your level by at least 2 options:
1) try to play 2vs2 game in team with skilled opponent. So you will see how does he play.
2) when you play with some good player, use Autosaver 1.25 utility (it will save each turn automatically). After the game open saves one-by-one and try to get same results like your opponent. Yes it will require 2-3 additional hours, however you will get best lesson and good experience.

Best fun is to win at the skilled player!

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pacifist
pacifist


Famous Hero
posted April 26, 2007 10:44 AM

I'd like to play online but I'm very confused with all the rules, templates and special maps with banks everywhere and players meeting only after beating strong obstacles. I feel like much freedom is taken away and might heroes are favored by the rules. I'll give it a try if there is a 2 vs 2 (vet + noob) game but only if we play for fun. I'll consider competitive play only if I find it enjoyable . Anyone interested ?

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 26, 2007 10:56 AM

I'm always interested in 2vs2 fun games. Those are the best.

And u can be sure there are other templates which are more poor than Jebus, so u really have to fight for every kind of stuff u see (like Angelitos Fiesta for example )
But 2vs2 games on original 3DO templates can be fun too. You may find bugged maps pretty often, but that shouldn't bother us too much.

Just come to gamespy and look for me. I am there pretty often. And I know some people there who also like to play fun games, but are aware of playing new guys/girls, coz they tend to quit after a while. But if I tell them I know you from HC, they will give it a try.
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pacifist
pacifist


Famous Hero
posted April 26, 2007 02:32 PM

Ok, thank you, I downloaded gamespy and made a new profile "ThePacifist" since my old H2 profile was taken. I sent you a request to add me but there are 6 H3 rooms, I joined all of them. Which one do you use here at CH? I'll try to connect tonight but my time zone is GTM +1, I think there is a 6 hour interval with USA. Well I'll see then

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 26, 2007 02:36 PM

I am not from USA, I am from Germany. So I am GMT +1 to..

And read here in this thread how to get into the right H3 room / lobby.
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Yasmiel
Yasmiel


Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
posted April 26, 2007 07:37 PM

Maybe I'm getting of topic, but has Gamespy fixed Vista problems? I wouldn't like installing it to realize  i cant use it, again...
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 26, 2007 07:54 PM

Yes, we have more and more Vista users in Gamespy.
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Sloatsburgh
Sloatsburgh

Tavern Dweller
posted April 26, 2007 10:25 PM

Is there any truth to the matter that HOMM3 is a bit more complicated than the other HOMMs?

I find myself happy playing KB or a HOMM map for an hour.  I can get myself to play HOMM2.  But HOMM3 is just to foreign to me and I doubt that I would be coming in even as a n00b.

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 26, 2007 10:54 PM

As soon as u got behind some basics, u will learn the differences pretty fast.
The main difference (for me) between Heroes 2 and Heroes 3 is the "WAIT" button on the battlefield. This makes the whole fight much more complex and offers way more possibilities.
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pacifist
pacifist


Famous Hero
posted April 27, 2007 09:48 AM
Edited by angelito at 17:39, 27 Apr 2007.

Ok, my first experience after many years without playing online. If I was not sure I simply had no chance with my opponent I would have stopped playing right there after my 2 games. When I connected to gamespy I didn't see anyone from here (it was a bit early I think) so I gladly accepted an offer to play a ramdom map with someone called Dr.Saga. I'm pretty sure now that he is only a child without manners. He was very helpfull when setting up the game though, but maybe because nobody wants to play him? Anyway, I'll stop speculating but I cannot depart from that feeling. He asked me if I was good and I replied I played only offline games before so I didn't know how good I was compared to other human players.

Ok, first game. It was on Jebus template (I have to learn how to play those templates, well how to put them in my maps directory). I choose inferno with Xarfax as starting hero in view of a probable good challenge might vs magic . He choose Castle and Caitlin as starting hero (normal choice to rush for angels and castle first week). He set time limit to 4 min. He hired 5 heroes, me 4. He always took all his time but when it was my turn first day, after 1 min he started complaining what I was doing, that I had to hit the end-turn button. This was enough to put me on the nerves but I restrained myself. After 5 days of play he suddenly says he must restart and quits. Glups, I didn't have an easy game (was going for efreets and castle as I had to trade almost everything to build devils without citadel). Out of the game he said his road was blocked and he couldn't go nowhere. Well, I saw the save and it was mummies and halflings that blocked paths...

Well, ok next game, he asked if I had time to play an XL-map, I said ok and asked him if he wanted to put the time-limit to 4 min or less. No response...Ok, let's go. This time I choose inferno again but with  Octavia. He made same choice as before. I didn't find a wood mine in first days, my road was blocked by pack of cyclops kings but still I managed to reach my plan objectives. I finally choose Ciele as main hero and was very tempted to take Dace with his tactics and offense. But I wanted a magic hero this time (remember the fun aspect ). Suddenly he asked me on week 3 if I was going to the centre and I said not yet, there was a horde of nagas and a throng of cyclops kings. The horde of nagas was like 17 * 5. He said he could take them. I knew I could too in week 4 with 6 archangels (2 from conservatory and 4 from 2nd town), 7 devils and 18 sultans. I had builded a level 4 magic guild with clone and counterstrike and had a berserk scroll. From this moment his stats began to raise very quickly and I asked him if he was  already in the center, he said no. I felt that something was not normal there. I lost 1 devil and 2 sultans in the fight vs nagas (I should have lost nothing if I was not nervous to play quickly, hum). Anyway when I headed for the closest utopia, I saw his main hero Tazar with a pack of archangels and a horde of zealots. What? he had 2 Castles? I saw that he builded a Tower town into castle (so I thought he was going for Titans too). Well, his Tazar was too strong , I had to retreat without spell points. I finally allowed him a last fight even if I could still resist with my spells. He called me newb after I killed a scout that was heading  to clear my territory  . Hum, that confirmed what I was thinking during the game, I was playing an immature young guy. I said gg and he quit after asking me "was it berserk that you cast?". I could have answered "no it was endless torrential fire from heavens" .

After looking the final save I suddenly saw why I lost so miserably : 2 utopias just near his main castle, several conservatories, plenty of banks, a lv 6 and 7 dwelling, etc, and the list goes on. Was he looking for this configuration when he asked to restart? Is that possible to have such differences in a template? Ah yes, he received 30 monks with a pandora too. I have a strong feeling this template (although marked Jebus) was not one used in tournaments or am I wrong?

When I quit I saw a message from Angelito 2 hours before that I didn't see. At least I knew there were good people there in this server or I would have quit gamespy probably forever. Hope next time I'll play vs an honorable player. I have a savegame, it's spectacular to see the differences from both sides. If a heroes game is decided by so ramdom factors I don't see the interest...But I'm sure there are better balanced templates out there or there wouldn't have a tournament that last for years

edit : I managed to have a screenshot : http://profile.imageshack.us/user/pacifist/images/detail/#177/startingredlz5.jpg

hope it works.

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sag
sag


Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
posted April 27, 2007 01:36 PM
Edited by sag at 13:44, 27 Apr 2007.

Quote:
At least I knew there were good people there in this server or I would have quit gamespy probably forever

well 50-80% of Gamespy users are novice players...they play with 1-2 heroes, 1 min/turn, no rules, etc...you will spend a lot of time helping them to setup connection, update game version, etc and they will rarely finish the game However you can always estimate power of player by his WCL rating. No rating means that you may expect anything from this player...

Quote:

2 utopias just near his main castle, several conservatories, plenty of banks, a lv 6 and 7 dwelling,

For XL size:
- normally 0-5 utopias in Jebus starting area
- normally 0-2 library in Jebus starting area
- normally 0-5 cons in Jebus starting area
- normally 0-4 nagabanks in Jebus starting area
- normally 0-7 level 6 dwells in Jebus starting area
- normally 0-3 level 7 dwells in Jebus starting area
Castle is best choice for Jebus...Inferno perhaps is worst

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pacifist
pacifist


Famous Hero
posted April 27, 2007 02:06 PM

0-5 utopias means one color can have 0 utopias while the other can have till 5 utopias if lucky? Are there probabilities of appearence? More probability on grass terrain? If that's the case where is the fun if all players have to play Castle (or maybe Rampart which is in grass terrain too) to be at least in the game? Are there other templates that give more freedom in the starting choices or that allow a true ramdom game (everything ramdom) with "approximatively" equal chances?

I must admit, that despite the bad experience with my opponent behaviour, I really enjoyed playing online. I consider participating in the tournament but I'd like a little more practice before whitout people shouting you take too much time while they take te double .


____________
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sag
sag


Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
posted April 27, 2007 02:20 PM

Quote:
0-5 utopias means one color can have 0 utopias while the other can have till 5 utopias if lucky?

yes. situation when your opponent has 5 topes and u have 0 topes + prison hero level30+pandora with 15k gold is possible. however it's rare situation and u should just try to break into middle - almost always u will find good topes in center area.
Quote:
Are there probabilities of appearence?

you can set zone richness but not probability of exact object. Also u may disable some objects (examples here).

Quote:
where is the fun if all players have to play Castle?
some additional rules like: 1 level 6 and 1 level 7 dwells limits , no upgrade of cons/hives may help...more or less full list of common rules consist of 111 rules.

P.S. Jebus is favourite template, many posts here in library, just try to search.

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 27, 2007 04:04 PM

First of all, I think it is good u made that kind of experience with Dr.Saba

Why?
Because this is the thing we (the "vets" of gamespy) have to experience every time when we try to play new players. They start to talk much in game about the time we need each turn...they accuse us of cheating, coz they see our main in tavern week 3 with stats up in the 20's...they just quit without saying a word...and so on..

Dr.Saba has a bad reputation on Gamespy already, coz his bad behaviour (especially towards new players) is known. But he is still at the very beginning refering to his play skills..

Now u probably understand why the longtime guys from GS dislike to play new people without any reputation, or from whom they have heard bad stories already.

I can tell ya a few names here from guys I know who want to play fun games even though u are new to online gaming. You just have to stay till the end of the game, and don't start to write messages like "Go Go...click end turn....faster faster..." and so on..

Just tell them u are a guy from Heroescommunity and learned about gamespy from there.

Some names:
- Highelfmage5, Mwild_one, Heroic_Druid, Crazyslayer (Ironmight), sgh2002, sag19330184, Bomberstonecold, Protos_Archon, Prof_Chomsky....
There are even more for sure....(hope no1 feels offended for the case I forgot to mention him/her..)
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pacifist
pacifist


Famous Hero
posted April 27, 2007 04:33 PM

Ah, thanks Angelito for clearing this things . I have no intention to begin a game and not finish it, I want it to be a fun experience for both players. I played some games long ago on H2 with players like Sir Alkis, Cordwin, Markus the Red, etc, and it was always extremely funny and honorable. No time limit in those times and no need . No hit and runs, no need for 50 rules each game, we knew very well what was honorable and what not, etc,.

I understand I had bad luck with my choice of inferno but still I appreciated the 3 hours spent in that game (except the voice in my head saying faster, faster,... ) . I'll be glad to contact any of the players you mention and maybe setup a 2 vs 2 game sometime. I don't mind losing games as long as the experience is rich and enjoyable. I already downloaded the ramdom templates at CH. Hope to see you again in gamespy, I didn't see your message until my game was finished . Have to install 2 patches at home (the speed in fights) and the crypts in "lava, dirt,..." terrain. And then new game

A question : I fought the 17 * 5 nagas with 6 archangels, 7 devils and 18 sultans. Is it too late for expert players or is it ok? I had advanced earth (no mass slow) and sp 17. Ignore the question if it's too off-topic.
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Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 27, 2007 05:32 PM

Look at how he split his Archangels 10-9-9. I would always make stacks of uneven sizes (e.g. 13-9-6) to have more options. What do you think about that?
And if I was fighting wandering stacks/conservatories/etc. I would leave some of the army with another hero.

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 27, 2007 05:50 PM

The pic shows why u should play the rule "No upgrade of cons and hives". Conservatories have a very low treasure value, means they could appear pretty often. The guy who plays castle has a hugh advantage without that rule. Maybe this is a good sign to see why we "have a few set rules to balance the towns".

Some more infos about your game (refering to what I can see there)

I see it is week 6. This is about 3 weeks too late refering to Jebus, Castle and at least 3 conservatories I can see only on that little part of his area in that pic.
You can take any kind of conservatory in week 2. You get at least 1 angel out of each conservatory. You have 3 angels out of your town (at least). You played without that above mentioned rule, means he should have 6 Archangels week 2. Even if you are insecure how to take an utopia with 6 Archangels and some fodder, you can wait till start week 3, where u got 8 Archangels. They are enough to take an utopia. 2 utopias can be seen at least. So u fight those 2 utopias week 3, take all the money to upgrade and buy all the rest of your troops from your town and hunt down into desert and right towards enemy area. Latest week 4 he should have knocked at your home door..)
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 27, 2007 05:54 PM

Oh...and refering to his Archangel splitting.
I never split my Archangels in more than 2 groups, if I have the rest of my army on too. I don't see a reason why.
If I fight with my Archangels only (clearing map, desert), I may split them into 3. But that's only coz I got 6 or 7 that time. If I would have 28, I can't imagine any fight where I couldn't win without losses if I have 2 stacks of 14 AAs.
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