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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Dwarves - Review
Thread: Dwarves - Review This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
GenieLord
GenieLord


Honorable
Legendary Hero
posted January 22, 2007 04:49 PM bonus applied.

Dwarves - Review

Since it's the only faction that doesn't have the comments of AoH, I decided that it needs to be reviewed.

Defender:
Simply as it's name-Defender. Great HP for unupdraged level 1 creature, great defence, and poor speed, low attack and under average damage. With it's Large Shield ability (only 50% of the damage is surffed from non-magical shots) it's hard to kill him from range.
The enemy has nothing to do with it's huge defence, becuase it can't be descreased at all.
All these things do it to the most annoying creature in this game, hard to use (walker with 4 speed and 9 initiative) and very hard to kill.
Rune of Charge, that will give him 8 speed for one turn) might be very helpful with this creature.

Shieldguard:
Much better HP, better defence and +1 to the maximum damage (what makes it a little little bit more helpful in the comabt).
The Shield Wall ability makes you need to be closer to him, and can make the strongest creatures' attacks to effect like his own attacks.
It's even harder to kill the Shieldguard then the Defender, but he has more use on the battlefield.
Upgrading the Defenders into Shieldguardersn is definitely worth the cheap price is cost.

Spearwielder:
Here you have only two shots, that one of them, in average, will wound the enemy. And after those two shots are done, you have a weak and slow level 2 creature, with 10 HP and chance of wounding enemies.
So, what you have to do for making this creature more productive is to buy an ammo cart, and to get Rune of Charge spell, just in case he's shots are done.

Skirmisher:
With a great improve of 4 shots, much better damage and +2 HP, the Skirmisher a nice resonable 2nd level creature.
4 shots does him a real shooter, but still ammo cart is needed.
No melee penalty is great here, and helps this creature to function as an offensive unit, what's it will be in a long battle.

Bear Rider:
With a huge quantity of HP to level 3 creature, nice speed (finally) and average damage, the Bear Rider is a good creature.
It's the only large creature in level 3. To an offensive unit, it's an adventage that it's a large creature, because it gets to more tiles on the battlefield.
There's a little problem with low attack, but Enraged ability can help you with that.

Blackbear Rider:
Almost everything is improved in this upgrade: a little bit attack (+1) a lot of defence (+4), better damage, +5 HP and +1 initiative and speed.
+1 speed is great here, becuase if you have Tactics skill (or the enemy has) you might get to the enemy in one turn.
Paw Strike is a very cute ability. It's useful when you block the enemy from reaching to other creatures.
With this kind of powerful defence to 3rd level creature, it's very strong ability that you can't do anything to descrease it.

Brawler:
The Brawler is a weak creature, with very low damage to 4th level, weak status and he's expensive.
I just don't understand why that creature is in the 4th level...
The only good things about him is the initiative and the immunity of Mind Control.
It's an extremely pointless creature, and it costs like a regular 4th level creature.
In my opinion, when you recuit creatures, first buy all the others and if you have gold left, buy the Brawlers.

Berserker:
The Berserker has better damage, +5 HP and +1 attack and defence.
The Berserker Rage ability is nice, but still all of it doesn't worth the cost.
I don't recommend to upgrade.

Rune Priest:
I think it's a good creature. The damage is quite good, the HP is great, and Mark of Fire is a good ability.
Deflect Missle in level 1 of light magic, what means Damage received from ranged attack is reduced by 40%, which is not amazing. It will be better to not wasting the turn for this magic, just to shoot.
He has only 5 shots, so get an ammo cart before long battles.
Magic proof is very useful here, and will probebly make the enemy to attack the Rune Priest without magics.
8 initiative says that the Rune Priest won't play a lot of times in the combat...

Rune Patriarch:
With a cross attack, Fire Wall spell +10 HP and stronger damage, the Rune Patriarch is an amazing creature!
With the cross attack you can attack 5 creatures at once! It's an amazing ability. And you have chance that they will be fire marked.
The defence, was low (only 6) at the Rune Priest. Here, the Rune Patriarch has 9.
Fire Wall might be a really useful magic, when you need to protect your shooters from attackers, and might have a tactical use with the Fire/Magma Dragon, that can pass in it without being effected.
There's also +1 initiative, that looks like unimportant thing, but there's a lot of change between 8 and 9 initiative, so it's a nice bonus.
The upgrade here worth the price of +200 gold.

Thane:
This creature can get to the enemy in one turn, he's the only Flyer (same as teleporter) of the Dwarves, great defence and there's only one problem: Very low damage for 6th level creature.
The thing that covers this disadventage is extra lighting damage, that passes as a chain to creatures near the one that was attacked.
It does the same damage that the Thane did, which is great! All you have to do for doing the Thane very effective is to attack creature when other enemy creatures are near it, like in the start of the combat. And the Thane can get to them in the first turn, with his 8 speed.
There's a problem when attacking creatures that have immunity to lightings.
The HP is a little bit low for 6th level creature.
To summary: the Thane is a great creature. Very strong and have a lot of effect on the battlefield.

Warlord:
There are three changes here:
1. Much stronger damage, what means the Storm Strike will be strongest, what means the effect is much stronger if there's a chain.
2. +20 HP, covers the Thane's adventage.
3. New ability: Storm Bolt, quite strong, but can be used only once in a bettle.
There's still the problem that when the Warlord attacks creatures that has immunity to lightings, he will have only his weak regular damage.

Fire Dragon:
With a nice fire breath, the largest amount of HP to unupgraded 7th level (230!), fire shield and ofcouse, fire immunity, this fire elemental dragon is a nice, strong and cheap creature.
It has only 5 speed, but you'll be just fine if you just use Rune of Charge spell, which gives him 10 speed.
It has great (35) defence and poor attack (25), average damage and fine initiative.
But as you can see, his strongest side is the HP and the defence.

Magma Dragon:
Wow, 280 HP! It's enormous! And ofcourse it's the best HP in the 7th level.
Magma Shield has duble effect of the Fire Shield, 40% of the damage goes back to the creature.
And +5 to attack and defence. These are all the changes.
The didn't change and it's pretty low.
Anyway, in my opinion, the price is too expensive for this upgrade, when the major change is +50 HP.  
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emilsn
emilsn


Legendary Hero
posted January 22, 2007 06:04 PM

One thing here we need to discuss: Brawlers, berserkers! Now remember reading a clever little thing here on the forum: berserkers comes in such huge numbers and then you will hardly loose a lot of them. and listen to this: They har pretty quick, so they can get a bit far on the battlefield. They have okay damage. They have maybe the best ability, dropping all Defense(think about having high amount of defense) and raise that amount to Att, that will raise the damage to like a psyco blow! Then you take the rune of berserking, which make you perform 2 melee strikes. 2 strikes filled rage = So great damage or you can use Rune of battle rage which will make him attack everything around him ... not that good but also great!

I would say they are great creatures, great growth, greath att, great speed and great ability.. They are not that bad...

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GenieLord
GenieLord


Honorable
Legendary Hero
posted January 22, 2007 06:15 PM

Quote:
One thing here we need to discuss: Brawlers, berserkers! Now remember reading a clever little thing here on the forum: berserkers comes in such huge numbers and then you will hardly loose a lot of them. and listen to this: They har pretty quick, so they can get a bit far on the battlefield. They have okay damage. They have maybe the best ability, dropping all Defense(think about having high amount of defense) and raise that amount to Att, that will raise the damage to like a psyco blow! Then you take the rune of berserking, which make you perform 2 melee strikes. 2 strikes filled rage = So great damage or you can use Rune of battle rage which will make him attack everything around him ... not that good but also great!

I would say they are great creatures, great growth, greath att, great speed and great ability.. They are not that bad...


First of all, Brawlers don't have the Berserker Rage ability.
Second, the Brawlers and the Berserker cost away more then they suppose to, even with this ability.
The cost doesn't worth it at all. And they don't come in huge numbers as you said, only per weak, like a regular 4th level creature.
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Shauku83
Shauku83


Promising
Famous Hero
posted January 22, 2007 06:39 PM

They don't come in huge numbers? I guess on level 4 16 a week isn't enough (compare to 8 Druids a week). I don't know how good or bad they are in practice, but they do come in numbers.

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GenieLord
GenieLord


Honorable
Legendary Hero
posted January 22, 2007 06:50 PM

Quote:
They don't come in huge numbers? I guess on level 4 16 a week isn't enough (compare to 8 Druids a week). I don't know how good or bad they are in practice, but they do come in numbers.


The regular amonut of them per a weak is 6. (Druids': 4 per a weak.)
If you build a castle and you'll have 12 per weak.
It's 16 if you add the building Wrestler's Arena, that adds 4 per a weak.

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theluCas
theluCas


Adventuring Hero
thiNk
posted January 22, 2007 08:42 PM

What do u thing about heroes, or preparation skill, i dont know to play fortress. There were one forum about it, but not very transparent. Is preparation so good skill?

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GenieLord
GenieLord


Honorable
Legendary Hero
posted January 22, 2007 08:47 PM

Quote:
What do u thing about heroes, or preparation skill, i dont know to play fortress. There were one forum about it, but not very transparent. Is preparation so good skill?


Hmmm... I'm sorry but I didn't understnd your question.
Mabey: "What do you think about...?" instead of "What do you thing about...?"
Tell me if that's what you meant to say.

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theluCas
theluCas


Adventuring Hero
thiNk
posted January 22, 2007 09:00 PM

Quote:
Quote:
What do u thing about heroes, or preparation skill, i dont know to play fortress. There were one forum about it, but not very transparent. Is preparation so good skill?


Hmmm... I'm sorry but I didn't understnd your question.
Mabey: "What do you think about...?" instead of "What do you thing about...?"
Tell me if that's what you meant to say.


i meant think

is so good preparation skill? I like hero, who has speciality defenders, he cant achieve that skill.

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PhoenixReborn
PhoenixReborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted January 22, 2007 09:00 PM

Preparation is awesome.  When large creatures cross the battlefield to hit you on the first turn, you hit them first.  It's probably unbalanced.
____________
Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.

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theluCas
theluCas


Adventuring Hero
thiNk
posted January 22, 2007 09:02 PM

Quote:
Preparation is awesome.  When large creatures cross the battlefield to hit you on the first turn, you hit them first.  It's probably unbalanced.


so bye bye defender hero

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted January 22, 2007 09:51 PM

No really. I took it a few days ago and it was never needed with my type of play. Why defend when you can attack with cool rune effects? And possibly luck? Because you have to defend for it to work.

I'll check the unit analysis later and tell you my thoughts.
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted January 23, 2007 12:33 AM

First of all, good idea to do this! I would like to add a few comments to some of the things you write.

Quote:
Defender:
Simply as it's name-Defender. Great HP for unupdraged level 1 creature, great defence, and poor speed, low attack and under average damage. With it's Large Shield ability (only 50% of the damage is surffed from non-magical shots) it's hard to kill him from range.
The enemy has nothing to do with it's huge defence, becuase it can't be descreased at all.
All these things do it to the most annoying creature in this game, hard to use (walker with 4 speed and 9 initiative) and very hard to kill.
Rune of Charge, that will give him 8 speed for one turn) might be very helpful with this creature.

Shieldguard:
Much better HP, better defence and +1 to the maximum damage (what makes it a little little bit more helpful in the comabt).
The Shield Wall ability makes you need to be closer to him, and can make the strongest creatures' attacks to effect like his own attacks.
It's even harder to kill the Shieldguard then the Defender, but he has more use on the battlefield.
Upgrading the Defenders into Shieldguardersn is definitely worth the cheap price is cost.


The Rune of Charge would be out of place here, because these units have so poor offensive abilities as they have. Obviously, these are tactical units, that you use primarily to protect your shooters.

Quote:
Spearwielder:
Here you have only two shots, that one of them, in average, will wound the enemy. And after those two shots are done, you have a weak and slow level 2 creature, with 10 HP and chance of wounding enemies.
So, what you have to do for making this creature more productive is to buy an ammo cart, and to get Rune of Charge spell, just in case he's shots are done.

Skirmisher:
With a great improve of 4 shots, much better damage and +2 HP, the Skirmisher a nice resonable 2nd level creature.
4 shots does him a real shooter, but still ammo cart is needed.
No melee penalty is great here, and helps this creature to function as an offensive unit, what's it will be in a long battle.


Again, the Rune of Charge is somewhat wasted on these units, because they will use their ranged attacks firstly, and a likely to be engaged in close quarters by the time they run out of shots. Furthermore, because this unit has so bad damage potential for a level 2 unit, you will only use this unit offensively as a last resort. The all-dominant purpose for this unit must be tactically, to hope for the crippling wound ability to happen (Soldier's Luck would definitely be helpful here). A Rune of Battlerage might actually come in handy in the rare situation where you will have the opportunity to attack numerous enemies here - not because of the damage, but because you might cripple a number of them.

Quote:
Bear Rider:
With a huge quantity of HP to level 3 creature, nice speed (finally) and average damage, the Bear Rider is a good creature.
It's the only large creature in level 3. To an offensive unit, it's an adventage that it's a large creature, because it gets to more tiles on the battlefield.
There's a little problem with low attack, but Enraged ability can help you with that.

Blackbear Rider:
Almost everything is improved in this upgrade: a little bit attack (+1) a lot of defence (+4), better damage, +5 HP and +1 initiative and speed.
+1 speed is great here, becuase if you have Tactics skill (or the enemy has) you might get to the enemy in one turn.
Paw Strike is a very cute ability. It's useful when you block the enemy from reaching to other creatures.
With this kind of powerful defence to 3rd level creature, it's very strong ability that you can't do anything to descrease it.


The Bear and Blackbear are powerhouses when it concerns Defence and HP - but actually, they are quite poor Offensive units. Of course, they'll be the best the Fortress can provide in early stage, but sub-average damage combined with low growth to compensate for their HP (base growth 7 as compared to 8-9 for most other factions) means a very low Damage growth (70-84 vs. average of 69-112). Of course, it's extreme defensive properties will ensure its survival, and there are a lot of runes that would be fun to play with on this creature (Rune of Dragonform, Rune of Battlerage and Rune of Etherealness might all easily come in handy).

Quote:
Brawler:
The Brawler is a weak creature, with very low damage to 4th level, weak status and he's expensive.
I just don't understand why that creature is in the 4th level...
The only good things about him is the initiative and the immunity of Mind Control.
It's an extremely pointless creature, and it costs like a regular 4th level creature.
In my opinion, when you recuit creatures, first buy all the others and if you have gold left, buy the Brawlers.

Berserker:
The Berserker has better damage, +5 HP and +1 attack and defence.
The Berserker Rage ability is nice, but still all of it doesn't worth the cost.
I don't recommend to upgrade.


Actually, at full growth this unit deals out respective damage compared to the other units of its level. Damage growth is 48-128 comared to an average of 63-114 for its level - thus, the Berserker ranges 15 points below minimum of average but also 14 points above. Just like the Marksmen, as simple Divine Strength will do wonders on this unit! - and the upgrade proves essential, because of the valuable Berserker Rage ability which will ensure No Retaliation. I actually don't know whether you can use the Rune of Berserking on this creature (does that count as a mind-affecting ability?) - but there's huge potential in that - otherwise, Rune of Dragonform or Rune of Etherrealness might come in handy (the latter to preserve this very fragile unit).

Oh, and they're not expensive: Cost growth is 3440 as compared to average of 3480 for level.

Quote:
Thane:
This creature can get to the enemy in one turn, he's the only Flyer (same as teleporter) of the Dwarves, great defence and there's only one problem: Very low damage for 6th level creature.
The thing that covers this disadventage is extra lighting damage, that passes as a chain to creatures near the one that was attacked.
It does the same damage that the Thane did, which is great! All you have to do for doing the Thane very effective is to attack creature when other enemy creatures are near it, like in the start of the combat. And the Thane can get to them in the first turn, with his 8 speed.
There's a problem when attacking creatures that have immunity to lightings.
The HP is a little bit low for 6th level creature.
To summary: the Thane is a great creature. Very strong and have a lot of effect on the battlefield.

Warlord:
There are three changes here:
1. Much stronger damage, what means the Storm Strike will be strongest, what means the effect is much stronger if there's a chain.
2. +20 HP, covers the Thane's adventage.
3. New ability: Storm Bolt, quite strong, but can be used only once in a bettle.
There's still the problem that when the Warlord attacks creatures that has immunity to lightings, he will have only his weak regular damage.


Actually, the Thane and Warlord are not so much below average as one might get an impression of from what you write. In fact, damage (18-28) is exactly equal to average damage for level 6 creatures, as is the HP (120 compared to 121). In fact, the Warlord's greatest weakness will be his unusual low Attack skill (15 compared to average of 23 for level), and in this case a Rune of Battleform will obviously be appropriate - boosting stats to a wooping 30 / 50 and adding 50 % magic proof to top this. If enemy is packed, Rune of Battlerage will also allow Storm Strike to work wonders.

Quote:
Fire Dragon:
With a nice fire breath, the largest amount of HP to unupgraded 7th level (230!), fire shield and ofcouse, fire immunity, this fire elemental dragon is a nice, strong and cheap creature.
It has only 5 speed, but you'll be just fine if you just use Rune of Charge spell, which gives him 10 speed.
It has great (35) defence and poor attack (25), average damage and fine initiative.
But as you can see, his strongest side is the HP and the defence.

Magma Dragon:
Wow, 280 HP! It's enormous! And ofcourse it's the best HP in the 7th level.
Magma Shield has duble effect of the Fire Shield, 40% of the damage goes back to the creature.
And +5 to attack and defence. These are all the changes.
The didn't change and it's pretty low.
Anyway, in my opinion, the price is too expensive for this upgrade, when the major change is +50 HP.


Obviously, as you say, this creature was built for Rune of Charge - it just seems to be build for this.

And one more thing: Entire faction seems to scream for Light Magic > Master Of Wrath; Master Of Abjurations and Eternal Light to start with Expert Mass Haste that cannot be dispelled.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted January 23, 2007 12:46 AM

Quote:

Quote:
Brawler:
The Brawler is a weak creature, with very low damage to 4th level, weak status and he's expensive.
I just don't understand why that creature is in the 4th level...
The only good things about him is the initiative and the immunity of Mind Control.
It's an extremely pointless creature, and it costs like a regular 4th level creature.
In my opinion, when you recuit creatures, first buy all the others and if you have gold left, buy the Brawlers.

Berserker:
The Berserker has better damage, +5 HP and +1 attack and defence.
The Berserker Rage ability is nice, but still all of it doesn't worth the cost.
I don't recommend to upgrade.


Actually, at full growth this unit deals out respective damage compared to the other units of its level. Damage growth is 48-128 comared to an average of 63-114 for its level - thus, the Berserker ranges 15 points below minimum of average but also 14 points above. Just like the Marksmen, as simple Divine Strength will do wonders on this unit! - and the upgrade proves essential, because of the valuable Berserker Rage ability which will ensure No Retaliation. I actually don't know whether you can use the Rune of Berserking on this creature (does that count as a mind-affecting ability?) - but there's huge potential in that - otherwise, Rune of Dragonform or Rune of Etherrealness might come in handy (the latter to preserve this very fragile unit).


Yes, with rune of berserking you can hit two times with rage at no retaliation. If both are lucky..! Thanks to Doomforge for bringing this to my attention!
And of course it's a great unit to upg. It can be built at town lvl 6 so build early, accumulate and at week 3 or 4 buy and upg them-they CAN and WILL make a difference. They have so much potential but die a bit easily. Brawlers themselves don't do much.
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted January 23, 2007 12:51 AM

You would assume that Mind Immunity would mean Rune of Berzerking didn't work on them. But if it truely does, there's certainly potential there.
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What will happen now?

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted January 23, 2007 01:23 AM
Edited by Elvin at 01:50, 23 Jan 2007.

I just witnessed the most pleasing spectacle ever! Blackbear riders with rune of battlerage attacking three units and knocking them ALL backwards!! Gotta love the runes!

Edit:
I noticed that the rune of dragonform doesn't give you 100% of current stats but 100% of the unit's initial stats. A berserker will always gain +7 att/def for instance.
____________
A sea without waves is no longer a sea. It's a pond.

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emilsn
emilsn


Legendary Hero
posted January 23, 2007 07:26 AM

Quote:
Quote:

Quote:
Brawler:
The Brawler is a weak creature, with very low damage to 4th level, weak status and he's expensive.
I just don't understand why that creature is in the 4th level...
The only good things about him is the initiative and the immunity of Mind Control.
It's an extremely pointless creature, and it costs like a regular 4th level creature.
In my opinion, when you recuit creatures, first buy all the others and if you have gold left, buy the Brawlers.

Berserker:
The Berserker has better damage, +5 HP and +1 attack and defence.
The Berserker Rage ability is nice, but still all of it doesn't worth the cost.
I don't recommend to upgrade.


Actually, at full growth this unit deals out respective damage compared to the other units of its level. Damage growth is 48-128 comared to an average of 63-114 for its level - thus, the Berserker ranges 15 points below minimum of average but also 14 points above. Just like the Marksmen, as simple Divine Strength will do wonders on this unit! - and the upgrade proves essential, because of the valuable Berserker Rage ability which will ensure No Retaliation. I actually don't know whether you can use the Rune of Berserking on this creature (does that count as a mind-affecting ability?) - but there's huge potential in that - otherwise, Rune of Dragonform or Rune of Etherrealness might come in handy (the latter to preserve this very fragile unit).


As i tried to say in the beginging. Genielord, these guys are killers.... 16 a week! Their growth means a lot and untill you got castle and the growth building they suffer a bit because they are rather few... And All runes seems to go with this one? Really great creature though it run very weird... ?

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GenieLord
GenieLord


Honorable
Legendary Hero
posted January 23, 2007 12:31 PM

Brawlers are pointless. They are weak and they don't have the Berserker Rage. Fine?
Berserkers are better, but I don't think they are strong, even in big numebrs. Every one and his opinion here.

About heroes: Again, it's a matter of opinion. I like Ebba the best. The Bear/Blackbear Riders become really strong in you add them +1 attack & defence every second level of the hero...
And she has Tactics skill, what helps the blackbears to reach to the enemy in one turn (large creatures).
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted January 23, 2007 02:11 PM

Quote:
Brawlers are pointless. They are weak and they don't have the Berserker Rage. Fine?
Berserkers are better, but I don't think they are strong, even in big numebrs. Every one and his opinion here.


Well the latter depends on whether you want to give YOUR review on the faction, or want to make a generalized neutral review of the faction. And to say Brawlers are pointless is not quite true, because they are a basic creature, and therefore haven't got the same potential as the upgraded form - but that's not the same as they are pointless - it's just an important upgrade. And Berserkers may not be strong, but that doesn't make them a bad unit - you just have to apply them in the correct fashion (like Djinns).
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GenieLord
GenieLord


Honorable
Legendary Hero
posted January 23, 2007 02:23 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Brawlers are pointless. They are weak and they don't have the Berserker Rage. Fine?
Berserkers are better, but I don't think they are strong, even in big numebrs. Every one and his opinion here.


Well the latter depends on whether you want to give YOUR review on the faction, or want to make a generalized neutral review of the faction. And to say Brawlers are pointless is not quite true, because they are a basic creature, and therefore haven't got the same potential as the upgraded form - but that's not the same as they are pointless - it's just an important upgrade. And Berserkers may not be strong, but that doesn't make them a bad unit - you just have to apply them in the correct fashion (like Djinns).


They are too expensive, that's what I said. They don't worth the cost.
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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted January 23, 2007 02:33 PM

Vampire Lords: 3500 Gold
Succubus Mistresses: 3500 Gold
Imperial Griffin: 3600 Gold
Druid Elders: 3400 Gold
Grim Raiders: 3600 Gold
ArchMages: 3400 Gold
Berserkers: 3440 Gold

Why do you see them expensive?

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