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| Thread: Facts About War Machines |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted February 25, 2007 09:57 AM |
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2% chance for attack and warmachines both screws it totally
academy also has 2% chance for attack so I wouldn't count on flaming arrows too much.. 
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sfidanza
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted February 25, 2007 02:36 PM |
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I think you're forgetting that the War Machines skill and abilities also greatly increase your war machines hit points. For example, the First Aid Tent has 100 Hit Points without skills, but 800 with First Aid ability and Expert War Machines.
The First Aid Tent will also resurrect your troops with the First Aid ability, and as your progress in the skill, will dispel curses as well. Granted, it's limited to 3 uses, of 100 Hit Points healed max, so it's not very effective in a big battle against a human player, but it does it against the AI.
The Ammo Cart also gives a bonus to your shooters' attack: +1/+2/+3 depending on your War Machines mastery. This can translate into a +5%/+10%/+15% damage bonus approximately. Again, not much compared to a Righteous Might spell, but it doesn't cost a turn/mana.
About Ballista damage, as said above, it depends on the Attack+Knowledge of the hero. That makes it most proficient with Demon Lords (75% of level-ups are spent in these two). Wizards get 55%. Knights, Rangers (45%) and Runemages (40%) have access to the Triple Ballista ability, which make them better than Wizards. Warlocks (45%) and especially Necro (25%) have not much use of it, except to get Rage of the Elements with Dungeon.
All in all, I find War Machines really helpful in starting games against neutral, where it can give a boost to development. It is less interesting when playing large maps against human opponents, where spells and creatures will deal far more damage.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 25, 2007 02:41 PM |
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Sfidanza > That was actually a really nice sum-up of the War Machines skill!  I always detested it in Heroes 3, so I always loath to take it in Heroes 5, but I knew it was much better than previously, and this was a nice why-and-when to this ability! Very usefull.
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What will happen now?
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted February 25, 2007 03:41 PM |
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Re: Rangers and War Machines
Quote:
2% chance for attack and warmachines both screws it totally
Is it really 2% though? As far as I remember, that value only applies to new skills. Once a skill is learnt, the chances ought to be scaled among the remaining unknown skills. For example, if Ossir starts with Luck, does he have more than 2% chance to be offered War Machines?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 25, 2007 03:43 PM |
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Even so that's not much of a difference.
Btw Quote:
Vokial's Daddy
really made me laugh! 
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted February 25, 2007 03:45 PM |
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Quote:
All in all, I find War Machines really helpful in starting games against neutral, where it can give a boost to development.
Not only do you deal more damage or prevent losses, but also neutrals tend to attack your machines instead of creatures. Quote:
It is less interesting when playing large maps against human opponents, where spells and creatures will deal far more damage.
I agree, but still most of the early game is spent creeping against neutrals.
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sfidanza
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted February 25, 2007 03:56 PM |
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Quote:
Is it really 2% though? As far as I remember, that value only applies to new skills. Once a skill is learnt, the chances ought to be scaled among the remaining unknown skills. For example, if Ossir starts with Luck, does he have more than 2% chance to be offered War Machines?
Completely true: the percentages are scaled among the not yet learned skills. Still, it tells that if you want War Machines with our Ranger, you shouldn't miss the opportunity when it shows up.
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted February 25, 2007 04:10 PM |
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Quote:
Still, it tells that if you want War Machines with our Ranger, you shouldn't miss the opportunity when it shows up.
I don't, especially since his Ballista can often get lucky.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted February 25, 2007 04:24 PM |
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Quote:
2% chance for attack and warmachines both screws it totally
Is it really 2% though? As far as I remember, that value only applies to new skills. Once a skill is learnt, the chances ought to be scaled among the remaining unknown skills. For example, if Ossir starts with Luck, does he have more than 2% chance to be offered War Machines?
And why he should Vlaad?  No, I never got warmachines with Sylvan hero. I play sylvan town extremely rarely, but still, I never got it. So 2% applies normally for me. Maybe you are right with the formulas, but those numbers aren't much of use in the game, since a RARE skill is a RARE skill and doesn't matter whether it's 2%, 3% or 4%. 
Warmachines would be great for sylvan though. It's also great for inferno, haven and fortress perhaps. Other factions creep well without it.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 25, 2007 04:32 PM |
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The bad part is that if they are to have any effect is to get them early. And you normally won't because you'll have too few other skills to increase your chances and if you already have 3-4 it will be hard to focus on warmachines.
So unless you get it within the first 6 lvls or so it's not worth it imo.
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hydroman
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 25, 2007 07:11 PM |
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I think at best it can go up from a 2% to a 5% chance, which is pretty good since you're rolling the dice for it at every level up, so it will show up sometimes.
[quote=sfidanza]I think you're forgetting that the War Machines skill and abilities also greatly increase your war machines hit points. For example, the First Aid Tent has 100 Hit Points without skills, but 800 with First Aid ability and Expert War Machines.
The First Aid Tent will also resurrect your troops with the First Aid ability, and as your progress in the skill, will dispel curses as well. Granted, it's limited to 3 uses, of 100 Hit Points healed max, so it's not very effective in a big battle against a human player, but it does it against the AI.
The Ammo Cart also gives a bonus to your shooters' attack: +1/+2/+3 depending on your War Machines mastery. This can translate into a +5%/+10%/+15% damage bonus approximately. Again, not much compared to a Righteous Might spell, but it doesn't cost a turn/mana.
About Ballista damage, as said above, it depends on the Attack+Knowledge of the hero. That makes it most proficient with Demon Lords (75% of level-ups are spent in these two). Wizards get 55%. Knights, Rangers (45%) and Runemages (40%) have access to the Triple Ballista ability, which make them better than Wizards. Warlocks (45%) and especially Necro (25%) have not much use of it, except to get Rage of the Elements with Dungeon.
All in all, I find War Machines really helpful in starting games against neutral, where it can give a boost to development. It is less interesting when playing large maps against human opponents, where spells and creatures will deal far more damage.
The extra health isn't really a bonus as much as it is a necessity, though. Having a lot of hit points on your ballista without having warmachines is a waste because nobody targets it, and having a lot of hit points with warmachines is absolutely critical because if it dies, you just wasted a ton of skills/abilities. That health needs to be there.
As for the tent, it is nice, but you'll first want to max out your ballista because it's the main reason you're taking warmachines. expert warmachines along with 2 or 3 abilities to get to triple ballista, and you're probably never going to get to picking first aid. Even if you do, it'll be too late for the early creeping.
As for which faction, well demon lord and wizard are most suited in terms of attributes like you said, so fittingly of course, Nival gave neither of them any special ballista abilities
I'd still stick to runemange (and maybe knight) since the chances of it popping up early (to help with creeping) are good, as well as ranger (you're gonna get it late in the game, but triple imbue ballista is too nice).
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baniaque1
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 26, 2007 02:49 PM |
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Fact about War Mashines #87
If you want to beat sucubusses without casualties, better give balista to another hero before combat...
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