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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: The New Necromancer
Thread: The New Necromancer [ This thread is 4 pages long: (1) 2 3 4 ]
Istari
Istari


Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
posted March 15, 2007 01:51 PM
Edited by Istari at 13:59, 15 Mar 2007.

The New Necromancer

The new Necromancer has to be a careful strategist.  The days of attacking everyone all the time and amassing an insane army of skeleton archers is over.  But who do you attack and when?  Who is worth waiting for the next week for regained Dark Energy (DE) points?  I am an ametuer statitition, so somebody might want to double check my methods.  However I did create some numbers to understand who are priority creatures to raise.  First I figured how many creatures could be raised if you had 500 DE.  Then I figured how much damage those raised creatures could do against an enemy with 10 Defense (a modified creature destroyability).  I ignored creature survivability because raise dead and Kaspar's tent keep them undead.  Anyways here are the numbers (the higher the number, the more damage they do per DE required to raise).

Skeleton- 159
Skeleton Archer- 153

Zombie- 123
Plague Zombie- 148

Ghost- 122
Spectre- 153

Vampire- 140
Vampire Lord- 137

Lich- 181
Archlich- 208

Wright- 191
Wraith- 198

Bone Dragon- 124
Spetral Dragon- 180

Understanding these numbers is just the beginning of your planning.  Sure Archlich's have the highest damage/DE, but there's much more to consider.  You can only keep 7 creatures in your army at a time so you have to make choices.  How many neutral's are on that map that will give you your desired creatures?  If you're close to a Necro castle where you can upgrade you get a better deal out of unupgraded creatures.  I typically run with two main Necro heroes.  The 1st Hero gets all his troops from Necromancy.  It usually consists of skeleton archers, ghosts, spectre, lich's, archlich's, vampires and vampire lords.  My second army comes into the game later.  She buys my accumulated creatures from my dwellings with my accumulated cash from not buying creatures most the game.  She starts out under leveled and over-armied.  She levels fast and has similar troops as my first hero, with the exception of having the bulk of her power come from wriath's and spectral dragons.  I usually leave a spot for ghosts in both armies so when I get haunted mines, I can collect those ghosts.  Anyways, that's my strategies and numbers on the New Necromancy.  Let me know what you think.
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alcibiades
alcibiades

Hero of Order
Really, Ubisoft?
posted March 15, 2007 01:56 PM

Doesn't this belong in this topic?

Thanx for sharin your thoughts, btw. I think uncovering strategies and knowledge about the new Necropolis is very important atm.

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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted March 15, 2007 02:12 PM

quite interesting chart! Seems I was right when choosing the liches as my main target. Well, I'd prefer wights ofc, cuz they come without the dreaded melee penalty, but there is so little level 6-7 units on the maps..

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Istari
Istari


Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
posted March 15, 2007 03:00 PM

Lich's

When I first started playing the new necromancers, I often refused to raise lich's because of their high DE requirement.  It's nice to see that it's a good move in most cases to raise them.  
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Istari
Istari


Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
posted March 15, 2007 03:06 PM
Edited by Istari at 16:06, 15 Mar 2007.

Vampires

Despite their low DE/ Damage ratio, I love raising vampires and vampire lords.  I always keep my eyes open for beserkers/ brawlers, grim raiders/ riders, succubus', and champions.  I plan my routes (without disrupting my larger goals too much) to attack those creatures at the begining of the week when my DE is full.  I like making my first hero's army shooter heavy, with plenty of lich's, archlich's and skeleton archers.  My ghosts and spectres quard my shooters and my vampires/ lords, attack.  That way no one attacking  gets retaliated on.  Its a good time.  Also the more vampires you have the better they stay alive with their life drain- good #'s are a must.  

The only caveat to my two hero plan is that in multiplayer games you need to have enough money to retreat when attacked by another primary hero, combine your forces, then take them out.  
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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted March 15, 2007 04:47 PM

I have played just few times whit 2.1 new necromancy and like to have new armies from necromancy. Liches where nice to have but 5-7 of them in a week is not that great really. Ghost where surprisingly good never seen their potential like this before (well perhaps from Haunted Mines)

Like many people i was dissapointed of Vampires first when they aren't so strong as they where on older HoMM games. I really hafto play more and test does this give Vampires whole lot new potential.

Anyway thx to Istari to given me something new to think about.

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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted March 15, 2007 05:12 PM

if you are serious about vamps, lucrecia seems the best bet here. But too few creeps give vamps anyway, imo.

For ghosts.. No specialists. Heck, I have to give it a try anyway, perhaps with vladmir for uberfast haunted mines. But with no light magic, no morale, no luck, and poor att.. can it be a killerstack? I guess it can't.. there is even no teleport assault.. and warlocks, wizards and possibly dwarves will still own ghosties without much problem.

But, hell, I will try it when I play someday again. May be decent in creeping with vlad's super powerful animate dead and spectre's natural manadrain skill against deadly casters. Although I think it still sucks.

Raising liches, on the other hand.. well.. nice damage, especially if you split them and use decay against noncleansing opponent.. but they are big, have melee penalty and can be blocked extremely easy, and that cripples them. Meh. Maybe with tactics and zombs in front... but necros lack the power to make such artillery units truly useful.

I really have no clue what to rise.

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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted March 16, 2007 10:19 AM
Edited by ZombieLord at 10:20, 16 Mar 2007.

Vladimir actually sucks. At level 16 (with Expert Summoning Magic) it gives 120 more Healing Power. pathetic

Why his speciality is so useless? Why he gains 1 spellpower per 5 levels for Raise Dead while Nathir gains 1 spellpower per 3 levels for Fireball?

Looking from another perspective, Vladimir at level 16 acquires half the power of an ability which is Master of Life (+4 spellpower for Raise Dead, but this ability gives +4 spellpower for Raise Dead and Fist of Wrath). The creatures specialists, on the other hand, reach the power of an ability at level 13. In this level, the hero gives +7 Attack and Defense for ONE creature, which means +1 Attack and Defense on average, like Resistance (+2 Defense).
So, you see? Vladimir at level 16 has half the power of an ability while the creature specialists at level 13 have the full power of an ability.

I know these things were pretty in general, but Vladimir was nerfed too much IMO


EDIT: @DoomForge, now you see that Spectres actually do more damage than the Vampires? And you were saying they are useless

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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted March 16, 2007 11:39 AM

Yes the Putin is next to useless. There should be more creature specialist now whit new necromancy system. Now we just have Lucretia.

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TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted March 16, 2007 11:55 AM

I think Lucretia raising Vampires mostly, might be the toughest Necromancer Hero! If only you could find the right creatures ...

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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted March 16, 2007 01:52 PM

Quote:
Vladimir actually sucks. At level 16 (with Expert Summoning Magic) it gives 120 more Healing Power. pathetic


Yeah, I think I said that when Vladmir was the most popular necro hero and got thrashed by his fans But I ended correct, and they just suck.
I meant "Putin" only for the easy haunted mines, since he indeed is pathetic.

Quote:
EDIT: @DoomForge, now you see that Spectres actually do more damage than the Vampires? And you were saying they are useless


Cause they are.. Massing one creature is good with a specialist, mainly.. And there is no ghostie specialist for necro. Pity.

I forgot about the haunted mines, however, which adds another bunch. Well, that may actually be worth, since you really want to raise *something* to make up for your pathetic army damage. As I said, I have no idea what to raise All those creatures have a major flaw, which makes accumulating one type of them bad. Say..

Global: Specialist only for vamps (I don't consider zombies, who would want to use them as a main offensive force with no tele-assault? ), necro are the worst melee fighters (no ATT, 2% chance for luck, no morale, no light magic, no skills like teleport assault or divine guidance - the only thing is nice DEF and power of speed perk, but I feel it's not enough, simply..)
Spectres: Very slow, worthless against all kinds of destructive magic, aren't much of killers even with boosted
Vamps: Only a few creatures gives vampires, they are very uneffective creature on their own in offense and mediocre in survivability aswell
Liches: Good, but can be blocked ridiculously easily, and their blasted melee penalty ruins it all
Wights: Only a few powerful units on the map
Boners: Too expensive in DE, level7 units are extremely rare

The solution may be raising every type, but since some units give you better possibilities than others (say, raising 30 zombies and 3 wights, what would you choose? The wights will in fact do much more than the zombs..) So raising "randomly" seems sucky aswell.


Would be glad for a tip. On next LAN, I really don't want to get badly beaten because I got necro when playing random towns.

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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted March 16, 2007 01:59 PM

Quote:
Would be glad for a tip. On next LAN, I really don't want to get badly beaten because I got necro when playing random towns.

I don't like playing random towns because, for example, I suck with Academy (I don't even know how to use MMR without reloads)

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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted March 16, 2007 02:05 PM

Me neither, since some towns have a powerful map advantage. But, sometimes we do it just for fun, and I end with Sylvan against Inferno on peninsula

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Illdisposed
Illdisposed

Tavern Dweller
posted March 16, 2007 04:23 PM

   Bring back the icorporeality of the Spectral Dragon!
In such case it will probably make it the best lvl 7, but to balance a bit, some of its stats could be reduced. The price of the dwelling would stay the same.

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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted March 16, 2007 04:27 PM

Quote:
   Bring back the icorporeality of the Spectral Dragon!
In such case it will probably make it the best lvl 7, but to balance a bit, some of its stats could be reduced. The price of the dwelling would stay the same.

I agree, bring it back, but maybe make them cost 'normally' for their tier and no more boost from the building?

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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted March 16, 2007 04:38 PM

Incoreporality would make them incredibly strong, but their outrageous costs would be fair then. You'd pay for what you'd get..

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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted March 16, 2007 06:43 PM

I complety forget about this Orson the Zombie specialist. I haven't never played whit him before exept in duel. Could he be any good...

Naadir should be Ghost specialist. He starts whit Summon magic and he can learn Haunted mines pretty quick aswell.

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Plexus22
Plexus22


Known Hero
posted March 16, 2007 11:35 PM

Quote:

I forgot about the haunted mines, however, which adds another bunch. Well, that may actually be worth, since you really want to raise *something* to make up for your pathetic army damage. As I said, I have no idea what to raise All those creatures have a major flaw, which makes accumulating one type of them bad. Say..



Yup...the flaw is that they are dead

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted March 17, 2007 04:46 AM
Edited by feluniozbunio at 07:05, 17 Mar 2007.

I had some games with Orson before  2.1. He was my favorite hero. His speciality saved me few times. Usually in a game 1-3 stack of zombies    joined me and i had really A LOT of them(he raises chance of joining neutral zombies). Besides he starts with vitality which was vital back then. Now, without mass skellies, vitality isn't that good anymore.

I remember winning a game against warlock who blasted all by 40+ archliches(joined too ) with single implosion. Haunted mined ghosts, mega stack of skeletons, and loads of zombies was barely enough to do this - he run out of mana when i was left with stack of zombies only, they did the job
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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted March 17, 2007 06:20 AM

Quote:
he raises chance of joining neutral zombies


Does creature specialist have better change of joiners? Low level creatures of own aligment joins easier but i didn't know the change could be increased for specialist.

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