Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info mods forum | HOMM4: info CTG forum | HOMM5: info mods forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: The subject of incorporeality
Thread: The subject of incorporeality
Ataman
Ataman

Tavern Dweller
posted May 08, 2007 03:30 AM
Edited by Ataman at 03:33, 08 May 2007.

Poll Question:
The subject of incorporeality

One of the most annoying features of the game is incorporeality - your hits often miss against enemy stacks, but you cannot rely on blocking hits directed against YOUR own stacks. I am thinking about creating a mini-mod that changes the concept of incorporeality to something less random and more reliable, yet make it an incredibly useful ability (if not more useful than right now).

So what should be done with incorporeality?

A. Status quo: in other words, change nothing, and there is no point in making such a mod.

B. - E. Defense increased by some factor: Note that if Defense is only doubled, that means ghosts would have a defense of 8 rather than 4, which is still worse than most 4th level creatures. This means some creatures are "more effective" at being incorporeal than others.

G. - I. Defense increased by a flat value: Self-explanatory. All incorporeal creatures recieve a flat boost to defense.

Any choice other than A. would mean attacks would never miss, but would cause reduced damage (except in the case of heroes and spells). More importantly, this would remove the incorporeality of the overpowered "Phantom Forces" spell, and I could grant any creature incorporeality (Air Elementals, Genies, Wrights/Wraiths, Spectral Dragons) by simply increasing the defense rating.

If defense becomes an unrealistic value (say 100), almost all physical attacks directed at the creature would cause only 5% damage, and spells such as vulnerability would have to be cast hundreds of times in order to be effective. This would mean I will have to dramatically reduce the hit points of those creatures, making them vulnerable to magical attacks.

Examples:
- Spectral Dragons with 50 hit points, but 100 defense.
- Ghosts and Specters with only 5 hit points, but 100 defense.

I urge you to vote, and give any (including negative) feedback.

-Ataman

What should incorporeality do?

Responses:
Status quo
Doubles the Defense value
Triples the Defense value
Quadruples the Defense value
Quintuples the Defense value
Adds a flat value of 10 or less to the defense value
Adds a flat value of 11-50 to the defense value
Adds a flat value of 51-100 to the defense value
Adds a flat value of 101-1000 to the defense value
Other (please specify)
 View Results!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
radar
radar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Castle/Haven player
posted May 08, 2007 03:58 PM

with one patch there was intoduced that there must be one normal attack after 3 missed and vice versa. that is enough for me

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
SwampLord
SwampLord


Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
posted May 09, 2007 02:26 AM

The only problem with trading defense for hitpoints is, what if they cast a spell on you? DEF has no effect against spell damage, I believe. So, you could kill a level 7 creature with like a low-level damage spell. Not good.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Ataman
Ataman

Tavern Dweller
posted May 10, 2007 01:39 AM

The example I provided was a radical one - I could still simply double the defense (as in HoMMIV), and not change the hit point values.

-Ataman

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted May 10, 2007 03:44 AM

I would take another approach: Make Incorporeality equal to Damage Reduction. 50 % damage reduction would be pretty potent - that's effectively double HP as the current one, but also reliable! - and it might be over the top, but I think it would work. A special charm with Damage Reduction is that you can make certain weapons penetrade it - thus, blessed weapons (units affected by Divine Strength, Angel's blade, etc.) could bypass the damage reduction to make it less potent.
____________
What will happen now?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
Beowolf
Beowolf


Adventuring Hero
posted May 10, 2007 12:10 PM

That would make phantom forces far less useful, since they would be dispeled by anything very quickly. The present state requires wasting spell, since incorporeal state and soldiers luck make unit very likely to have 3 misses on a row. Simply increasing defence or making unit resistant to damage would only severly weaken ghosts/specters and cloned units. A little reminder - simple removal of incorporeal ability moved spectral dragons from one of the best to the worse 7th level creature...

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Ataman
Ataman

Tavern Dweller
posted May 10, 2007 10:04 PM

Quote:
I would take another approach: Make Incorporeality equal to Damage Reduction.



I would find that the most ideal solution... if it were possible with the HoMMV engine. Unfortunately, defense bonus is the closest I can get to.

Quote:

That would make phantom forces far less useful, since they would be dispeled by anything very quickly.



In the previous HoMM games, Phantom Forces was a level 4/5 spell, dispelled on the first strike.

Quote:

Simply increasing defence or making unit resistant to damage would only severly weaken ghosts/specters and cloned units.



A significant increase (say, by 25 points) would make Ghosts/Specters more durable than Golems when it comes to physical attacks.

Quote:

A little reminder - simple removal of incorporeal ability moved spectral dragons from one of the best to the worse 7th level creature.



This could be rectified by the "pseudo-incorporeality" feature I proposed - increasing defense by a certain value. What the value is, is subject to debate.

-Ataman

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Beowolf
Beowolf


Adventuring Hero
posted May 10, 2007 11:46 PM

Quote:

This could be rectified by the "pseudo-incorporeality" feature I proposed - increasing defense by a certain value. What the value is, is subject to debate.



The superiority of incorporeal as it is lies in the fact that it's impossible to by-pass is by any phisical attack (dont know if harm touch can be dodged by cloned units). No matter how high defence is, it can still be reduced by various effects and abilities (ex. rider charge), so it would never become as good as chance to dodge physical attacks...

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Ataman
Ataman

Tavern Dweller
posted May 11, 2007 01:14 AM
Edited by Ataman at 01:15, 11 May 2007.

Quote:

No matter how high defence is, it can still be reduced by various effects and abilities (ex. rider charge), so it would never become as good as chance to dodge physical attacks...



Yes, Lizard Riders wouldn't be affected by incorporeality. That would mean Dungeon would be more adept at handling Necromancer armies from now on... which isn't too bad of an idea, since I find Dungeon armies to be some of the weaker ones if you put growth and price into consideration.

For the other factions, it wouldn't make much of a difference (I don't have HoF, so I can't speak for the Dwarves).

-Ataman


 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted May 11, 2007 01:33 AM

Quote:
That would make phantom forces far less useful.


I would call that an added bonus! Phantom Forces is more than sufficiently powerful even w/o the incorporeal twist.

And if you wanted to retain that, you could just change the spell description.
____________
What will happen now?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread »
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0359 seconds