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| Thread: Faction Debate *Updated* |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted June 10, 2007 08:07 PM |
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sq79 - please send me a PM at Celestial Heavens RT if you are still interested. The guy who is doing sylvan may welcome a partner.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 05, 2008 12:19 AM |
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*bump*
You probably don't remember the project but you may wish to take a look at what has been done so far.
I present you Winterfate's Sylvan(HoF) and my Academy(TotE) Guide 
There are some other guides in the way that need to be finished but it may take a while to properly update and test them but it will probably take a while 
Meanwhile I'd appreciate some feedback in the form of corrections or possible additions so as to make them more complete.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 06, 2008 10:04 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 16:13, 06 Feb 2008.
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I must say I am a bit surprised, I'd expect people to show some more interest in faction guides.
Is that still heroes community? 
Thread title modified, not recruiting for now 
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Edwin_Yang
Known Hero
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posted February 13, 2008 01:24 PM |
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I have to say it is an excellent academy guild elvin.I agree that academy have various strategies to counter other factions,so it is the faction most depends on the players' experince and the understanding of the game.
IMO,academy is not that very good for late game because the hero get a little ATT and DEF (though the mini-arti could help a liitle),alos the have 2% chance to get logistics which you could not rely on.fortunately,now academy is the fation can get the mentoring easily,that would help in a late game.anyway,academy perform really good in early game, due to their powerful magic they can take away some high tier creature or break out in a shot time which will give you an advantage in game.
for town building,most of the time I would like to build the fifth magic guild as soon as possible.usually finish it in the second week or the beginning of the third.the really power of academy's spell in the fifth spell I think.except the word of light the others are very useful and could make you creep with ease.then I go for ceature dwelling and capitol.by the way,I dont like MMR because it is risky to take 4 schools spell as you wish and it seems a wast to me,2 schools are pretty enough to me in most cases.(maybe it is my lacking of experince that do not see the advantages of MMR)
then strategies for counter each factions.I am not that experinced so I just want to talk about the skills briefly.
HAVEN
in short game destructive magic works wonderful and heaven is easy to be rush, so there is should no problems to attack haven early.in late game Light-Suppress Light works fine.I think Haven probably would not go for dark magic if he know the enemy is academy,but it is not bad to also take Dark magic-seal of Darkness.and yep,face late haven Defense is a must, so Razzak may be a good choice.with Suppress Light the knight would run out of mana and you can use the dark magic in the way you like.if you worry about the magic immunity and the paladin combination,taking Light-Suppress Light and Summon Magic is a good choice.
DUNGEON
I have a little differet opinion , i think it is not worth to take sap magic or protection due to dungeon's racial skill.before the dungeon get the black dragons,things are easy. Armageddon or CotN or AOE spell wiht the MotW ends the game.if the dungeon gets black dragon(
especially more than a few),destructive spell in not good any way.as you say,Light(resurrection) and Dark(Frenzy the Raiders)are much better.
INFERNO
a faction weak facing the dark magic and lacking of magic proof.so take destructive magic for early game .for late game Light-Eternal Light(demonlord is good dark magic caster also) and Dark-seal of Darkness are useful.Ah..dont forget Defense,you dont want to face the inferno's awesome attack without it.and the ballist..it is a nice suggestion elvin.
NECROPOLIS
good at dark and summon magic while itself is weak in counter the dark magic.early game i also suggest the destructive magic because the necropolis lack of magic proof.late game I agree that Light/Dark maigc/.Light-Eternal Lighr and Dark-seal of Darkness are good.actually dont worry about his phoenix,if he summon a phoenix,your highlevel dark magic is just for it.another way, Dark-Seal of darkness and Summon-Elemental Balance are also works.if he summon a phoenix then you have a
same one and you can frenzy his at the same time.yes he can frenzy your pheonix too but you just need to summon a new one.with the seal of darkness the necromances will run out of mana quickly by casting summon phoenix and frenzy even they have MotN(the MotN has been weakened in Tote)
SLYVAN & FORTRESS
all I have to say is that you must attack as soon as possible,otherwise the two factions would grow quite powerful in late game that could be very tough for you.defense and light magic and mini-arti can help you but ...still tough.both of the two factions have a high magic resistance and can get the eternal light easy which would weaken your dark magic a lot,unless you get the staff of sar-issus .attack early anyway!
ACADEMY
I dont think Havez is good for play against academy since the saboteur can sabotage the ballist and academy troops have a high magic proof,maybe summom magic-elemental balance and Dark magic are good.
STRONGHOLD
sorry I have no experince in fighting against this faction.I heard of that dark and summon magic are good but not sure,maybe I need play more to see how the two schools magic perform in a battle against the barbarian. anyway I think you'd better attack early,in late game thousands of the goblin-wicth doctors would ba a threat to your hero since academy rely on magic.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 13, 2008 02:24 PM |
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Thanks for taking the time to read it, I realize that I have made it quite extensive 
While I know what mentoring does I had not considered it as a long term plan. I have used it a couple of times but never as a failsafe should the game get long and I need the support, after all enlightenment is not a priority - except in the case of destructive abusers I guess.
About building guild 5 I'd aim for week 3 but not 2, I still prefer to get some dwellings and castle. And yes, no matter how you take it an early lvl 5 be it a phoenix, an aoe or a motw combination is really hard to repel, that's why I focus on getting magic skills to expert and skip most perks. Word of light can be pretty useful too but yes, situational.
MMR does not necessarily state having 4 schools, they may be 2 or 3. The idea is powercreeping with a good array of(high level)spells, artifacts from the merchants and less emphasis on dwellings. Or so I gathered. I usually take 2 or at best 3.
HAVEN
I doubt they'd aim for dark for two reasons.
One is that academy could care less if their army is cursed not to mention it has mechanical and mind-immune units. Single curses are too risky with motw so it stands to reason that he'd aim for mass spells but academy units would not be enough to win the battle anyway.
The other is that academy will likely have dark and light is the best counter. Yes I know, they may not get good spells and there is also light and summoning but it's still a risk. And from haven's lineup only a paladin is sure to dispel high level curses.
DUNGEON
Once I won because I cast arcane armor on my steel golems That, a puppet on the raiders and a phoenix with raise dead was enough to take him out before he could blast me to pieces. One reason was that I put my golems in the corner so he could not focus fire.
You are probably right, sap magic is not worth it but even a 10% boost to those of the mini arties can help.
INFERNO
The thing with the ballista had happened to me at some time And the enemy had many succubi mistresses.
STRONGHOLD
In a test with premade 5 week upgraded armies and skills I picked myself(he had shatter dark), academy could handle itself. Initiative arties, mass slow, summoning obstacles and frenzy were very effective at keeping them at bay. Of course the orcs can use 2 shaman stacks next to the goblins to haste and sacrifice every once in a while. Still motw and high level dark are not easy to tackle.
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86wyp
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 14, 2008 11:15 PM |
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Edited by 86wyp at 23:19, 14 Feb 2008.
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I read it too. And it is no doubt the best guide I have even seen (no offence to winterfate..) And I do have many comments too if you'd like to listen, though I guess you don't need them.
One year ago I play academy almost in the same way as you explained in your guide. Now my way is a lot different.
btw I like the way you explain MMR.
My version: MMR=enjoy the power of magic!
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 14, 2008 11:20 PM |
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Thanks Any comment is welcome and I'm quite curious how different you play. It's all a piece of the puzzle, the more you learn the better. That's academy's way
I should mention that I have fallen out of practice with it so it's possible that my gameplay will change once I start playing it again.
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86wyp
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 14, 2008 11:48 PM |
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Edited by 86wyp at 23:50, 14 Feb 2008.
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Ok this is the strategy I currently use with academy and dungeon(and is being discussed in the chinese forum): Multiple Hero Rush(MHR)
In short you can imagine it like an enhanced version of MMR. I try to use all academy heroes I have hired to creep at the same time, gether resources and artifacts and rush the opponent in the first month. It is like two 15+ heroes(at least) in week 3 or three 15+ heroes(at least one of them will be 20+) in week 4. Every hero focuses on one or two schools of magic, but destructive most often. since I can learn fireball from archmages and one hero can teach others the magic, destructive becomes quite dependable and I don't even need to build high level mage guilds. When I know I can win by just doing multiple hits and runs I will skip sorcery, while enlightenment is still a must(for intuition, mentoring and power).
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 14, 2008 11:55 PM |
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Yeah I've heard of that but never liked powercreeping with multiple heroes. Not that I deny its effectiveness, fireball kamikaze are awesome Still mentoring with Nathir seems easier in comparison than creeping with the secondaries from the beginning.
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86wyp
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 15, 2008 12:12 AM |
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Yeah easier, but not as powerful. And not applicable to dungeon.
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 15, 2008 12:53 AM |
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You know what you factionheads should do - have a balloon debate... One person is nominated to represent each faction, then it proceeds in rounds; each time the representatives make a short speech explaining why their faction is the best, a shortish discussion follows, then the audience vote off the person with the least convincing argument. Eventually we end up with an overall winner. You could even try to do it in real time rather than through forum posts...
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 15, 2008 01:00 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 01:01, 15 Feb 2008.
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Lol that's what we originally intended. But the team found it hard to be all online at the same time so we settled for each faction being released per week. Note that there was a healthy amount of arguments and additions in the faction debate forum, it just came slower After the first two people got sidetracked and did not complete them. Right now I am hoping to update what there is and see who could help with that.
Edit: Also there is little point debating about which is the best, may parameters where each can gain an edge.
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 15, 2008 01:07 AM |
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Ah right I see. All this would be a lot more interesting for me if I actually had any opinions on the different factions...
Edit: Hehe, I bet my editing skill is better than yours, most of my posts get edited in some way...
Edit: You doubt my editing skills? (sneaky, that's an unfair advantage  )
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 15, 2008 03:04 PM |
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Enter the editing wars! Sounds epic no? Anyways unless anyone has comments on the guides I'll be back when I finish the next one after an indefinite amount of time Probably necro.
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DarkShadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted February 15, 2008 03:40 PM |
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Why necro guide?They are imba and thats end of story.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 15, 2008 04:23 PM |
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That clearly shows you don't know how they perform against others.
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 15, 2008 09:52 PM |
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Quote:
Enter the editing wars! Sounds epic no? Anyways unless anyone has comments on the guides I'll be back when I finish the next one after an indefinite amount of time Probably necro.
I shall look forward to it, and the Inferno one too if it's in the works.
Edit (o/c): editing war eh, don't make me post a link that automatically temporarily edits all your posts to say simply "Elvin smells" or some other such serious insult
Ok I give up w00t I win
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 15, 2008 11:12 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 23:40, 15 Feb 2008.
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That reminds me that destro had written a good part of the inferno guide and little remained. If he is interested to continue he'd just have to update and add a few tidbits.
Edit:
Meanwhile the private forum is no more and the topics have been moved to the H5 section. I'll provide the links if anyone is interested in the discussion but keep in mind that they are for HoF.
Inferno by Destro23.
Necropolis by nevermindspy.
Dungeon by infiltrator.
Haven by soviet.
Fortress by Omega_Destroyer.
Sylvan by Winterfate.
Academy by me.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted February 16, 2008 08:32 AM |
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Dang, missed it again. As usual. Still since it was HoF, would not have much input. Now with ToTE and stronghold, I think I could hold my own with.
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Message received.
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shardik
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 19, 2008 10:32 PM |
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I would kill for a TotE Inferno guide...
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