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| Thread: Do you think the Fortress guard post is overpowered? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 10, 2007 02:07 PM |
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Quote:
Max potential is somewhat Base 10 x Town Level 30 x Month 3 = 900 Shieldguards. (Longer than 3 months games are already doomed againts Fortress)
If my memory serves me, Fortress can actually reach Town Level 39 (unlikely, because it requires TOA), but even with the more realistic level 37, that would be 370 / 740 / 1110.
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What will happen now?
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Orfinn
Supreme Hero
Werewolf Duke
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posted August 10, 2007 03:32 PM |
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Edited by Orfinn at 15:33, 10 Aug 2007.
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They may be plenty early game but its in late game they are one of the worst threats! Seriously, they..in the beginning only forces the Fortress player itself to be in his town because of weak starting units. Of course he will be a deadly defender. For they who mostly focus on 1 hero on small or medium maps. Could be too defensive, not wanting to step outside their town.
In late game they are like by month 2, over 1 freaking K!
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted August 10, 2007 04:34 PM |
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I just dont understant what u complain about. If someody cant handle month x guardpost(coz hes crappy player who complains instead of thinking for eexample) why cant he win the game in month x-1. Its as simple as that.
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Orfinn
Supreme Hero
Werewolf Duke
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posted August 10, 2007 04:54 PM |
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I just dont understant what u complain about. If someody cant handle month x guardpost(coz hes crappy player who complains instead of thinking for eexample) why cant he win the game in month x-1. Its as simple as that.
Me you pointing too? If so, I didnt complain 
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted August 10, 2007 05:06 PM |
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Quote:
I just dont understant what u complain about. If someody cant handle month x guardpost(coz hes crappy player who complains instead of thinking for eexample) why cant he win the game in month x-1. Its as simple as that.
So, if there were 10000 Defenders per day generated would you say the same?
The point is, that sometimes you can 'think' and still lose big time. Then you are a crappy player, right?
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted August 10, 2007 05:17 PM |
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I find it an interesting conundrum.
Some have suggested good strategies for defeating them...for example, using bear riders to knock the shield guards back and forth so that they never get a turn.
Other ideas include puppet master or ice bolt with stunning.
These are all very effective but become much tougher when facing Ingvar or any other hero who is built up to have cleansing or resistance etc.
Sanyu makes the point that they would be very underpowered without it. I think that is valid, but I would wish to cut the formula down a little, say a multiplier of 7 instead of 10.
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted August 10, 2007 05:55 PM |
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The point is that in quick games fortress just can't use a runemage as a main. They will start with Ingvar(who else?), dig through a tavern(very luck dependant part), recruit a magic hero and use him/her as a main.
Then, guardpost is not so greatly balanced anymore because high lvl destructive in guild + wizard/warlock main may actually do something useful(win the game).
If a game is long enough then fortress will obviously use a runemage+mass haste+runes. Then, guardpost can be used to give him +week creature growth unless someone chooses to face a runemage inside his castle walls.. Abusable to say the least.
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Sanyu
Known Hero
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posted August 11, 2007 08:09 AM |
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Edited by Sanyu at 08:44, 11 Aug 2007.
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Why should guardpost be weakened? That'll be unfair to Fortress. Unlike any other faction, Fortress as the defending side for a siege battle is very pathetic.
Their first shooter is a low-damage level 2 with a decent ability while their other shooter is a extremely weak level 5. Furthermore, to worsen the situation, both shooters are the only two shooters in the game to have an initiative of 9. With turns that come AFTER other shooters in the game and the 1/4 damage penalty, Fortress' shooters are totally useless in sieges. Berserkers, already weak even with high population, can't put its beserk ability to use as it is highly unlikely that the enemy would want to rush his creatures into the castle. The sad thing is, if berserkers are not quickly used, they would die in no time. Thanes, you would think, with a speed of 8, would be useful...but due to the increased battlefield size for sieges, they can't even dash forward in a round to at least unleash chain lightning effect. Even if the hero has a speed increasing artifact or rune of charge and thanes can reach the other end in a round, the battlefield size allows for an arrangement such that no more than 2 creatures be affected by chain lightning strike. Bear riders, normally reputed for their paw strike, cannot maximize it; again, due to the siege battlefield size. Even with rune of charge, sending out bear rider to attack would be suicide for it has no back-up supporters. Magma dragon, being the worst level 7 creature in terms of initiative and speed, serves only one purpose- to delay the battle as much as possible, with its immense amount of health and defence. But what's the point in delaying the battle unless a certain stack can dish out decent damage without dying quickly? That, would then be the job for that stack of one/two thousand plus shieldguards, without which, Fortress would be doomed in sieges.
Of course, early-game, guard post is much more dangerous than late-game. Late-game, with all the powerful creatures any other factions would have, guardpost becomes weak.
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted August 11, 2007 11:09 AM |
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So, if there were 10000 Defenders per day generated would you say the same?
But its not 10000/day but a merely 10x(month number) at max(within each month)
Quote:
The point is, that sometimes you can 'think' and still lose big time. Then you are a crappy player, right?
Of course you can always lose, what makes somebody a crapy player is an attitude , not the record.
Quote:
Of course, early-game, guard post is much more dangerous than late-game. Late-game, with all the powerful creatures any other factions would have, guardpost becomes weak.
Yeah i agree with that. Maybe weak isnt appropriate word, lets say mediocre
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted August 11, 2007 09:59 PM |
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Hmmm... well I think it only OVERPOWERED in early game where you just may find that extra stack of defenders... lets say anoying.
But then again as sanyu pointed out fortress sort of needs a guardpost like buff early game. But well mid-game onward i think its really manageable.
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siinn
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 13, 2007 05:26 PM |
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i voted: overpowered!
early and late game...
i'm not a pro player and i'm not good at statistics but i have the feeling the number of free dwarves given by the forteress specific building could be tweakened down without causing dwarves defenders army too much damage.
i love this specific feature but i think free dwarves are too many
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted August 13, 2007 05:46 PM |
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@Sanyu,
Was there a leveled enemy hero in the castle in that battle?
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