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| Thread: Portal of Summoning - yes or no? | |
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted August 22, 2007 11:34 AM |
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Portal of Summoning - yes or no?
I played nice game against Prowler yesterday, where he had 2 Dungeon towns and he managed to build POS week one in both of them. The result was - 16 AB in week 3  Formidable...
Too bad Implosion was not allowed, otherwise it wouldnt have been a problem.
Today i told about the game a friend of mine and he said that POS should not be allowed.
I argued with him, that POS is not DB. My reasons are, that to play for POS you must forget all other dwellings (and this could be vital in early game), you should have lots of money early in the game (about 10k gold more in week 1). And lots of other stuff, that you must do in order to benefit from them.
So - for me POS is normal and MUST be allowed.
Its another question, that level 5 magics must be allowed aswell in order to fight against 2 POS.
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted August 22, 2007 12:01 PM |
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I don't see the reason why implosion should ever not be allowed -.-
I guess next steps would be banning all damage dealing spells, with culmination in banning the 2 footsteps in same direction for any hero.
"No rule" games forever!
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted August 22, 2007 12:06 PM |
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Edited by liophy at 12:10, 22 Aug 2007.
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I thing that the question of "no rules game" have been debated for ages.
Lets not make this topic the same. Majority of the players are united behind some ground rules. For specific templates there is some other additions.
I am talking about Jebus (as you may guess).
The question is not "rules or no rules", the question is - is POS reasonable, or not.
For more clarification i must add, that in this game it was allowed only 1 level 7 dwelling (which for me is reasonable).
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted August 22, 2007 12:43 PM |
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If u make restrictions about level 7 dwellings, then PoS shouldn't be allowed of course. The player who is lucky finding a dungeon town as one of his 2 neutral towns on jebus has a hugh advantage now. He can have 3 extra level 7 creatures each week. The other player may have 2 non-dungeon towns, but maybe 2 external level 7 dwellings instead.
But this again is an example for "How too many rules can imbalance a random map even more!". One player had tons of level 7 units, while the other had a strong magic against this force. One of these powers was restricted/forbidden, therefore it was pretty much imbalanced.
Forget about lev5 spell restriction, forget about red orb restriction. "1 Level 7 dwelling" may be fine, but then PoS shouldn't be allowed (or to specify the rule a bit more: Not allowed to buy lev7 troop from PoS).
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted August 22, 2007 12:55 PM |
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Edited by liophy at 12:55, 22 Aug 2007.
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The reason that i find POS normal and not that inbalaced is that you must sacrifice all your other dwellings. which can be a lot. And you dont know from day 1 if you will have dungeon, so you sacrifice the lower dwelling as a risk.
First you risk to slow your development (because if you get 2-3 rocs dwelling it can speed your game a lot), than you sacrifice at all your lower dwellings.
And as reward you get only 1 level 7 unit, not 2 - like from the dwelling.
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted August 22, 2007 02:59 PM |
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Quote:
I thing that the question of "no rules game" have been debated for ages.
Lets not make this topic the same. Majority of the players are united behind some ground rules. For specific templates there is some other additions.
You are right of course, i overreacted a bit, but i was very surprised to see implosion banned, it was too much for me. I'm also for some ground rules that fix some major imbalances. But from my answer "no rules", you could read that I'm against banning PoS. I'm ok with what most players call standard banns (is this the right word?), those that greatly imbalance the game. But i don't see PoS as such thing. It adds a little flavor to algorithmic maps(which are still called random here).
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Devangle1984
Known Hero
I am the Dark Vader
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posted August 23, 2007 10:51 AM |
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Well usually if the player is dungeon then the pos obviously allowed for his town atleast as that is one of the game plans and as liophy said the the sacrifice is the gamble. As far as when dungeon becomes a secondary town, and not the main, then it is not a sacrifice at all, just need 2500 and ore, and no prerequest for it.In this term i agree with dirk as no lvl 7 from pos. Although in my games i don't mind either way. As hives and cons may counter balance or magic. As long as there is no retriction in magics or hives and cons. Otherwise it becomes somewhat a problem. I had a game with pengu and this happend on native jebus. Even though i broke about 6 or 7 days before him and cleared all the middle, he still had 40 or 50 odd wavs more and better stats, but my implo saved me(example on magic). Hence as long as all counter balances are allowed then pos is no problem. Its all becomes a part of the strategy.
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SAG
Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
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posted August 23, 2007 02:16 PM |
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i vote for: ALLOWED
it was difficult to combine WCL rules for sub-tourney with heroes.by players. So i thought a lot about common rules, discussed different variants with players and finally decided not to ban POS in any case. I guess even if players are splitted 50/50% to ban/allow POS - it's better not to create just another rule. Main arguments: sacrificing all other dwells, less complexity in rules, more interesting game tactics
P.S. IMHO i think Earth tome and 5th level hat are much more disbalancing than POS...
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MartectX
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 24, 2007 01:50 AM |
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Quote:
I played nice game against Prowler yesterday, where he had 2 Dungeon towns and he managed to build POS week one in both of them. The result was - 16 AB in week 3 Formidable...
I don't get it - does that mean he got Ancient Behemoths? And why couldn't he just get them with his heroes - after all the Portal just summons creatures from external dwellings.
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted August 24, 2007 10:11 AM |
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Quote:
And why couldn't he just get them with his heroes
I dont get it what exactly you ask?
Portal Of Summoning allow you to recruit creatures from external dwellings. But you rectruit both from the dwelling and from the portal. 2 portals mean - 2 Ancient Behemots more each week. For 3 week he had 6 more AB.
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MartectX
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 24, 2007 01:36 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
And why couldn't he just get them with his heroes
I dont get it what exactly you ask?
Portal Of Summoning allow you to recruit creatures from external dwellings. But you rectruit both from the dwelling and from the portal. 2 portals mean - 2 Ancient Behemots more each week. For 3 week he had 6 more AB.
But with two external dwellings he naturally gets +2 to Behemoth growth. Even without recruiting them from the externals. Are you talking about the Dungeon PoS? Or are you talking about some WoG thing?
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted August 24, 2007 02:19 PM |
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Offcourse i am talking about dungeon'` POS, there is no other POS. And i dont talk for wog at all, i never play wog.
The sittuation is that we use only 1 dwelling level 7, not 2. I have written it - that was one of our rules.
I still dont understand whats your point?
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted August 24, 2007 02:41 PM |
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Wait, does the Portal of Summoning drain the population of the dwelling the creature is recruited from?
If you have 1 behemoth dwelling, and 1 ancient behemoth in it, if you recruit it through the portal, that's it. You can't recruit another one from the dwelling since you already recruited it through the portal. Right?
I think that was his point.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted August 24, 2007 02:53 PM |
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Nice quality in this thread. Where are the red stars, Angelito?
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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MartectX
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 24, 2007 02:55 PM |
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Ah, yes, you can only recruit once. At least so it should be according to the description of the Portal. And I also didn't get your sentence "...that POS is not DB." Sorry if I sound dumb, but I absolutely don't understand what your and your friend's problem had been.
In my opinion the Portal of Summoning just saves you one trip to a random flagged external dwelling. It's a useless building unless you have just one, say level 7, dwelling at the other end of the map. Better flag all dwellings available to get those creatures and a +grwoth in your castle (if they match your race).
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted August 24, 2007 03:00 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 15:01, 24 Aug 2007.
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No.
Portal of Summoning (special building in Dungeon town) let u "summon" an additional weekly growth of any (by your colors) flagged external dwelling. Additonal means, you still get the extra growth in the normal dwelling in your town (if the external dwelling belongs to your town / resp. is built in that town!), and you still are able to buy those creatures from the external dwelling itself.
Example:
You have built castle and Behemots in your Stronghold town. You have flagged 1 external Behemot dwelling (and no other external dwelling), and you have 2 more Dungeon towns with Portal of Summoning built.
At start of next week you get:
- 3 Behemots from internal dwelling in Stronghold town
- 1 Behemot appears in each Portal of Summoning of these Dungeon towns
- 1 Behemot can be bought out of the external Behemot dwelling
So all in all, you get 6 Behemots at day 1 from now on.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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doom3d
Known Hero
Avatar of general Z
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posted August 30, 2007 09:01 PM |
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IIRC POS offers same type of creatures as in the last flagged dwelling, so You don't have to sacrifice others. You can flag them all, and have all bonuses. Just flag your favourite lvl7 dwelling for last.
Isn't it? 
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted August 30, 2007 09:17 PM |
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No, its random.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted August 30, 2007 10:25 PM |
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It's random and the odds of getting a creature depends on total number of flagged dwellings. For example if you flag 9 trog dwellings and 1 dragon dwelling, the trogs will appear in the POS 90% of the time.
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