|
| Thread: Unknown enemy: How to build your hero |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
|
Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
|
posted December 27, 2007 09:42 AM |
|
|
|
I dislike OHKOs. ESPECIALLY since in this game the starting initiative in battles in random, and with just a bit of good or bad luck, that first move can determine the entire battle. THAT'S one element that should be removed or reduced - a flaw in the game as far as I'm concerned.
|
|
roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
|
|
posted December 27, 2007 10:32 AM |
|
|
the random ATB value adds an element of interest . Its no more flawed then one person getting better atrifacts or skills then the other person, or a better hero at the tavern, or 4 groups of creeps instead of 1 . The game has plenty of randomness and to take it out would mean for the most part that nearly every game would be the same. Its like asking why not make a long list of artifacts you can pick every time you get one instead of randomly providing one. Or why not to give you the abiltiy to have 50 abilities/perks to choose from on level up. Its just elements that make it more fun to play on the whole, albeit on a more (or less i suppose since you cant at the start of battle how much better artifacts your enemy got at the start of the game) subtle level
____________
"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted December 27, 2007 11:42 AM |
|
|
Please. Up to 0.25%? That means that crossbowmen can potentially play before hunters or paladins before emerald dragons which is insane if you are unlucky. One such lucky start can ruin your game that you have been building up for so many hours and that's because one hit kills are possible. But regardless that can break your game in creeping, especially in factions that depend on ranged combat. Skills can be controlled to an extent and a good player will make sure to have gotten more artifacts than his opponent, if you gain a good artifact because you broke faster it's less of an imbalance. And creeps you can easily guess in how many stacks they will appear according to your army strength.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
|
|
posted December 27, 2007 11:46 AM |
|
Edited by Cleave at 11:49, 27 Dec 2007.
|
No randomness would mean playing chess. Now let's face it, luck has a part to play in that game. In some games my troops special abilities (rune of thunderclap, bear roar, for instance) never kicked in and I rarely got lucky hits whereas my friend got lucky regularly with just +1 luck. In yet another game my friend couldn't get anyone to join him despite having diplomacy whereas I got neutrals join my army (and I was playing the necropolis that time).
One stroke of luck can change the outcome of an entire battle, that's true, but there are too many factors that can affect a game: artifacts, fort hills for quick upgrades, refugee camps... And even the heroes you get (like Roy pointed out).
Just like in real life, you deal with the cards you are given and try to make the most out of your hand.
Knowing your enemy is one important factor though and it's highly doubtful that you will ignore which faction you are facing (when you just have to visit your tavern to find out who is your opponent's best hero on day 1).
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted December 27, 2007 01:07 PM |
|
|
The idea is to play heroes, not roll dice. I like some chance in my game and these specials are pretty balanced and hp based - at any time you can guess how possible it is to for a unicorn to blind and opponent or a squire to bash with just some experience. Luck skill is also alright because you have to spend level ups and you cannot know if and when it will trigger(not sure how much I like up to 50% chance..) but the other is a major flaw of the game. You don't even have to pursue a skill, you can win or terribly lose because of a lucky start and H5 depends a lot on the 'final battle'. Heroes could hardly be called chess with the randomness that is already there.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
|
|
posted December 27, 2007 03:03 PM |
|
|
Yes it can be devestating. But ask anyone who has had to face an enemy who got staff of the netherworld and ring of celerity while he got staff of sar-issius and ring of machine effinity when he never got war machines. And its just annoying. Its like getting that stat-equalizing mask when your higher level. Or facing off deleb when you pick random heroes. Skills can be controlled to an extent but id certainly fear a demon lord with light magic on his hands and thats extremely rare.
Its the same level of destructive randomness that can destroy a well planned game at a stroke. But more apparant in the final battle.
____________
"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
|
|
Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
|
|
posted December 27, 2007 04:31 PM |
|
|
Quote:
The idea is to play heroes, not roll dice. I like some chance in my game and these specials are pretty balanced and hp based - at any time you can guess how possible it is to for a unicorn to blind and opponent or a squire to bash with just some experience. Luck skill is also alright because you have to spend level ups and you cannot know if and when it will trigger(not sure how much I like up to 50% chance..) but the other is a major flaw of the game. You don't even have to pursue a skill, you can win or terribly lose because of a lucky start and H5 depends a lot on the 'final battle'. Heroes could hardly be called chess with the randomness that is already there.
I never said that Heroes could be called chess!
You mentioned special abilities, you must have noticed how often neutrals creatures get their specials to work and how unfrequent it is for your own troops to use them.
Agreed, the initiative thing can be rather annoying. But it's not the only example of strange randomness in that game (see my post above).
In the end whether we like it or not, it brings chaos to the battlefield and contrary to a chessboard the battlefield in heroes can be a very chaotic place.
|
|
TemjinGold
Known Hero
|
|
posted December 27, 2007 07:25 PM |
|
|
Quote:
It's not exactly the same  But I believe that it's better to focus on killing the opponent faster than preserving yourself.
Exactly. I believe one of my friends nailed it when he said (regarding the Attack/Defense argument), "The purpose of such a game is to choose things that help you win faster, not lose slower."
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted December 27, 2007 08:22 PM |
|
|
Dwarves, wizards and necro are a slightly different case where this ideology is concerned because of the hero's role and units' nature but otherwise I am more offensive.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
|
|
posted December 27, 2007 11:00 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I never said that Heroes could be called chess!
You mentioned special abilities, you must have noticed how often neutrals creatures get their specials to work and how unfrequent it is for your own troops to use them.
Agreed, the initiative thing can be rather annoying. But it's not the only example of strange randomness in that game (see my post above).
In the end whether we like it or not, it brings chaos to the battlefield and contrary to a chessboard the battlefield in heroes can be a very chaotic place.
Oh true, but the main difference is that the randomness in such occasions doesn't have TOO much an impact, whereas the randomness from starting initiative can DETERMINE the whole BATTLE. That's a major difference!
|
|
Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
|
|
posted December 28, 2007 12:40 PM |
|
Edited by Cleave at 13:14, 28 Dec 2007.
|
Quote:
Quote:
I never said that Heroes could be called chess!
You mentioned special abilities, you must have noticed how often neutrals creatures get their specials to work and how unfrequent it is for your own troops to use them.
Agreed, the initiative thing can be rather annoying. But it's not the only example of strange randomness in that game (see my post above).
In the end whether we like it or not, it brings chaos to the battlefield and contrary to a chessboard the battlefield in heroes can be a very chaotic place.
Oh true, but the main difference is that the randomness in such occasions doesn't have TOO much an impact, whereas the randomness from starting initiative can DETERMINE the whole BATTLE. That's a major difference!
Little things can have dire consequences.
I used the RMG to play Haven vs Sylvan with a friend. The Haven had fort for free upgrades next to the town. That meant plenty of crossbowmen with a discount at day 2! How can you compete with such a start (and to make things worse without Ossir but with an artifacts merchant to make you mad)?
I remember playing the necropolis versus the dungeon with a friend. I didn't have diplomacy (and I was playing Vladimir) but I had a stroke of luck when more than 40 wolves accepted to join my army for free. It was even worse when it happened a second time in the same game! So many vampires for free...
It's luck and it's not that common but it changes the outcome of the game.
Quote:
Dwarves, wizards and necro are a slightly different case where this ideology is concerned because of the hero's role and units' nature but otherwise I am more offensive.
I agree wholeheartedly with that comment. I tried Stronghold with Defence, it nicely complements the blood rage as well.
|
|
|
|
