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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: What do when you're in a tight spot or really behind you're opponent.
Thread: What do when you're in a tight spot or really behind you're opponent.
Jukeboxhero
Jukeboxhero


Adventuring Hero
posted January 01, 2008 12:18 AM
Edited by Jukeboxhero at 01:52, 01 Jan 2008.

Strategies for comebacks.

Ok, so I've had the priviledge of playing a lot of great players from these boards lately.

Now, I'm still very much a noob (although I'm started to get my act together with Stronghold), so I know that 90% of the time, I'm going to recieve a thorough beating. However, I still want to be as much of a challenge to defeat as possible.

So, oftentimes I find myself making mistakes and falling way behind my opponent. There are two recent scenarios that I would like to use as examples, and I welcome any strategies for any scenario where you were behind by a little or a lot, but still managed to catch up and either win, or present a formindable challenge.

Scenario #1 He has your town!

I'm playing against Syvlan and right at the end of week 3, he comes towards my primary town! Unfortunately my main is far away but I have a scout (Lethos actually) near my base. His attacking hero is Wyngaal.

So I hired as many troops as I could, grabbed an Artie near the town(boots of speed) and hoped I could defend the town or at least weaken his army with Decay. Well, I didn't get so lucky...especially since I had no mana to cast Decay, but I managed to kill about 6 arcane archers.
So now he has my main town and my ore and lumber mill. On the plus side my main just got the ring of celerity. I'm debating on trying to sneak a scout to my main town, or go back with my main. On the other hand, I could progress towards his base...but I think of the loss of income + troops would screw me pretty quickly.

So I guess my only hope is to try and squeeze past his main and try to sneak back to his town. Btw, I still have two other low level towns(inferno and stronghold) providing some income...but no really decent troops or anything

But if I could rewind time (and who knows..maybe he'll be nice and let me reload to the turn before he attacked my town)what would be the wisest choice of action?

1.Hire and army with my scout and run toward the main and hope he doesn't catch you (and if he does, retreat asap)
2. Try to defend it (but without wasting mana killing creeps in an attempt to gain a level)
3. Hire some cheap units in town (so the towers may get one turn to fire at somethng) and run with your scout (who may have units..hoping to lure the enemy away...or get away himself to return and reclaim the town.

Scenario #2. Way behind in levels and creeping.
Map: Day of the Colossus.
I just started a game as Dungeon. I've played them a few times before, so I thought I was starting to catch on to how they creep (with stalkers/magic or stalkers/furies). I chose the Fury hero (Yrwanna?) as my main and built the Blood maiden building 1st turn. My first mistake was creeping some Sprites guarding my ore mine (forgetting they cast wasp swarm). I don't think there was any way to avoid losses, mine were 6 scouts and 3 furies. After that I creeped a woodmill, Sulfur mine, Crystal mine and a few other stacks with almost no losses (except 4 scouts against a pack of white bears).

By the end of week one, I was only level 3, while he was 13.
My only hope is I got Mail of enlightenment from a Sphinx (although both players get it from their sphinx).
But overall, I'm not sure what I did wrong, and I kinda got discouraged that I seem to be doing worse than previous games..which I played before I really knew how to creep.

Honestly, since I got off to such bad start so early, I was considering just calling it a game and restarting a new one. But perhaps I can catch up once I start getting experience from chests, stones..etc.
.........on a side note, what's a good average level for Warlock (or any hero) and how many stacks should be killed by the end of Week 1? I know a lot depends upon the map and what you fight, plus the free experience you get. So far, I've only been able to get exp from creeps..and I've killed about 6-7 stacks (an average of 1 a day)


Anyways, I'm open to any suggestions and other strategies for other scenarios where you made any significant comeback, even if you didn't win.



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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted January 01, 2008 05:22 AM

#1
If he gets your town you can do the same, especially if you have a magic hero where you need army strength less. Of course it depends on how far your town is and if you can take him in a siege, his town would be an easier target. Sometimes I will give the army to a secondary and only leave 7 tier 1 units in town, if you are to lose the town you might as well save your army and give it to the main. Does not always work but it's helped me in the past.
You should just prevent that thing from happening by guessing where the enemy may come from and how fast you can intercept him.

#2
The only thing I could think of is try to prevent it by creeping faster. Or continue and hope he will not rush you. I have turned a game around where I lost 50 master hunters, because the opponent did not attack me for a few weeks and I built up my second town, avenger did the rest

I have posted what I do in the secrets of destruction thread. Get a good build and clear whatever you can without having to turn back. If secrets of destruction fail you then get a mage guild 3 but otherwise you should be able to defeat a pack of tier 7 by the end of the week. Should be about lvl 10+.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.

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sith_of_ziost
sith_of_ziost


Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
posted January 01, 2008 07:25 PM

Good points Elvin. Usually these kinds of things rely HEAVILY on the situation.

Scenario #1- I would go with Choice number 2.
In any situation, a lot depends on the circumstances. Have your scout vist the banners and fountains nearest the town then garrison, sell off any unnecessary arties, and then buy as many creatures as possible, starting with the cheapest. Sell resources if necessary. Hold out in the town. If possible, hire a hero from the tavern to learn a destructive spell and place it outside the garrison. That way you can bomb away some units (preferably the archers). Then hopefully, the garrisoned hero has a lot easier time. If not, by the time he takes the city and the surrounding buildings, your main should be back to the home city. While all of this is going down, the underground cities should be building up an average army to take on any straggling raiders. Oh, if their is a ring of the broken will or other luck penalty arti, I'd buy in the Trade Guild so that the Ranger doesn't kill your army with luck rolls as often.

Scenario #2- I'd sell the mail of enlightenment and buy something else more useful, because a 15% bonus to exp won't make much of difference emminently. I generally have a level 9 warlock by the end of Week 1, but it jumps clear up to 22 or so by week 2 because I spend week one building economy then military, so by week 2 i'm well into Mistress production.

So, any other problems? I usually don't get in a rut. Whats funny is the opponent attacking me with a weaker army and die horribly.

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Lesij
Lesij


Famous Hero
posted January 01, 2008 07:49 PM

Errr...
He was talking  about the orcs...
You Elvin, said as if he played Sylvan, and you, sith wanted his third hero to learn a dmg spell which isn't so easy to get in the orcish town...
Only Horde's Anger is something close to spell but it is hard to get and it needs lots of orcs to be powerfull
I can't show you any good hints, cuz I simply doi not play net and I think I'm more nooby than you in this case
About playing the orcs- of you know you'll go far away and have quite good amount of resources try to buy the 4th lvl talisman befor going...
Orcs are great when they impact... But when they need to defend, or are taken by the surprise- their power can be really decreased...
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sith_of_ziost
sith_of_ziost


Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
posted January 02, 2008 03:03 AM

Was he playing orcs? He, sorry, guess the Lethos thing screwed me up a bit. in that case, passive retreat is warranted. Especially against blasted sylvan.

Actually, I don't think he was talking of the Orcs. Were you?

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bixie
bixie


Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
posted January 02, 2008 12:19 PM

if i'm in a tight spot, and i generally play 2player hotseat for heroes, i hit the other guy over the head.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted January 02, 2008 12:20 PM

Just tell him not to back up
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Myrdreon
Myrdreon

Tavern Dweller
posted January 02, 2008 12:42 PM

Well, when im lucky i show him/her the true meaning of armageddon, but 99/100 times you arent that lucky or you need to sacrifice your entire army as well...


As for #1, if you are to far away, then he is also to far away from you. So while he is taking over your territory, you can relax and do the same since he cant reach you as well.

For defending your castle however, there are indeed several options. First is to use the distraction with a scout/secondary, but ONLY if 1) you are sure the scout remains within his movement range and 2) he cant get back to your castle in that same turn. That way you either save troops, or give your main an additional turn to say "hello" to his main castle.

Another option is buying as many creatures as possible, starting with the one that has the most tanking ability or is ranged. This ofcourse depends on his army, since he is sylvan with their hated ranged, getting tanks first is probably better and then divide them in as many groups as possible. That gives your towers and defending hero some time to wreck havoc.


As for #2, if your opponent has that mail and enlightment you will never catch up. Those together gives 2000+xp from a 2k gold chest, not to mention what happens from creeping. If he doesnt just equip the mail and you'll likely catch up sooner or later.
Perhaps you creeped less effective, but then again each week the creeps grow bigger meaning you get more xp and as such you slowly gain in on him.
Also keep in mind dungeon creeps effectively, but its bottleneck is the mana. This is usually empty after a few ranged creeps, which means you have to wait before creeping effectively again. Once the levels start comming and your mana/spellpower goes up you'll notice an increase in creeps/day.
So i wouldnt worry about that to much: either you catch up or you wouldnt have been able to keep up anyway.

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Jukeboxhero
Jukeboxhero


Adventuring Hero
posted January 02, 2008 04:24 PM

Quote:
Was he playing orcs? He, sorry, guess the Lethos thing screwed me up a bit. in that case, passive retreat is warranted. Especially against blasted sylvan.

Actually, I don't think he was talking of the Orcs. Were you?


Sorry I was talking about Orcs in the first scenario, but Warlocks in the 2nd one. I didn't mention it though, so it's my fault.

Honestly though, I find you advice very useful! It would work for almost any town except Orc, and maybe even with that if I happened to have a dest. spell....like Decay (okay that's dark...but you get the point) or Horde's Anger.


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sith_of_ziost
sith_of_ziost


Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
posted January 02, 2008 06:46 PM

The thing is that Horde's Anger depends on how big your army is, so an army of maybe 150 could equal a good shot. But, less than that, you're kinda...disadvantaged. I'll adapt my summary to fit the Orcs now...

So, the main army of the enemy is on your proverbial doorstep. Your main army is an ungodly distance away. So, orcs have a high growth rate, so in any case, chances are you have a good amount of creatures for hire. If necessary, sell what resources and arties you can and buy up those creatures. Buy a hero that can hold some punch, like Kragh. Then, if possible, suit him out with some Warcries, put focus on pounding down some units. It also gives a chance that the Ranger uses up some precious mana. Just hold your ground. All the while, move your main back to the city. supply convoys from you other two cities and meet them halfway. That way the anemy is thinking they're starting to get in over they're head.

Hop some tips light the way!

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jukeboxhero
jukeboxhero


Adventuring Hero
posted January 03, 2008 11:39 PM

Quote:
The thing is that Horde's Anger depends on how big your army is, so an army of maybe 150 could equal a good shot. But, less than that, you're kinda...disadvantaged. I'll adapt my summary to fit the Orcs now...

So, the main army of the enemy is on your proverbial doorstep. Your main army is an ungodly distance away. So, orcs have a high growth rate, so in any case, chances are you have a good amount of creatures for hire. If necessary, sell what resources and arties you can and buy up those creatures. Buy a hero that can hold some punch, like Kragh. Then, if possible, suit him out with some Warcries, put focus on pounding down some units. It also gives a chance that the Ranger uses up some precious mana. Just hold your ground. All the while, move your main back to the city. supply convoys from you other two cities and meet them halfway. That way the anemy is thinking they're starting to get in over they're head.

Hop some tips light the way!


Thank you very much Sith..you're tips do indeed "light the way"..or give me some awesome ideas.
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to win either game I had described above, but in another recent game, where my main was far, far away, I managed to scare him off by hiring as many creatures as I could (which I will need anyways) for my secondary hero, Haggash (who's lvl 10, btw). This game is still in progress, but I think I'm in good shape to win it. It's vs Academy, but my main is still exploring the map and trying to get good arties. I'm thinking about back soon though.

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