|
|
imp
Hired Hero
|
posted February 15, 2008 11:28 PM |
|
|
long battles
what if we had a battle system where battles could span for multiple days. each battle would have a 30 minute span. this would work by having a movement turn and then the battles would take place. so a red hero would move and attack a blue hero, but the attack wouldn't start right then. Red team would first end their turn, and then the blue team would have a turn. On the blue teams turn everything would be normal except that the hero who was attacked would not be able to move. Additional options that the blue team would have is they could send reinforcements through hero transfer or another blue hero could join the battle.
in battle, lets say that the blue team added another hero. at first it would just be normal. one red hero against one blue hero.but then blues reinforcements would arrive in 15 min(in this case the extra hero, sometimes it will be extra troops added derectly to the heros army, also the time for reinforcements to arrive could be reduced through skills). then the battlefield would go from this:
red hero vs blue hero
to this:
blue hero
red hero vs blue hero
lets say that it is a big battle and that it reaches the 30 minute time span. then the battle would stop how it is. It would be like they are fighting during the day and taking a break at night.
each hero would get experience accordingly. then the next movement turn would start. the three heros engaged in battle would have no movement points. they could still get reinforcements though(since it is the second day of the battle and reinforcements could arrive at night there will be no waiting period, the newly added troops will already be in there respective armies when the battle starts)
now lets say there is also a green player. so on the green players movement turn he could also join the battle. then when movement was over and the battle resumed it would look like this:
Blue hero
red hero vs blue hero
green hero
to apply this battle to a seige just add a wall in front of the far right blue hero. the only other differences in a seige would be the defending hero could not get troops from another hero but troops purchased from the castle could join the battle automatically. seige battlefeilds would also have to be bigger to compensate for the extra room that the wall would take up. also only the red hero in the diagram could use the catapult.
another interesting thing about these battles is that the first attacker would choose wether they wanted to attack at night or during the day. this would be an interesting feature because there would be some creatures who would be better at night then during the day. for example archers would receive a penalty at night but angels would get a bonus to their attack during the day because they are creatures of the light. there could also be skills for the hero that would make their units better during the day or night.
as a side note battles against nuetrals would take place during the movement period and would not have a time limit.
what do you think?
|
|
Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
|
|
posted February 16, 2008 04:29 AM |
|
|
Wow. I like the idea!
And a thought: How would this work for Ship to Ship battles?
____________
How exactly is luck a skill?
|
|
Drunk_Lord
Known Hero
very happy hero :)
|
|
posted February 16, 2008 06:54 AM |
|
|
good ideas imp 
____________
|
|
imp
Hired Hero
|
|
posted February 16, 2008 09:58 PM |
|
|
|
i never thought about the ship to ship battles. i hardly ever have them and it just didnt occur to me. i guess if we used a different method of boarding the enemies ships it might work.maybe the ships themselves could be added to the initiative bar. then players could manipulate their ships so that they could connect them to enemy ships and then attack with melee units. flyers and archers would already be able to attack ofcourse. maybe the ships themselves could also have a ranged attack. then their could be massive naval battles. idk, any other ideas?
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted February 16, 2008 11:37 PM |
|
|
While your idea is simply superbly put (tried something similar a lot of time ago, but never got it to work 'seamless' in the game) I think the concept with day/night breaks should be extended. Some players may not want to 'rest' during these days, and obviously by not doing so the opponents shouldn't either. However, if the battle lasts too long, the army might get tired, and then a forceful rest might be mandatory. Unfortunately if the enemy is not tired and 'attacks' you at this stage your army will have to fight and to make it look 'tired' we'll have to decrease some stats -- initiative and hit points are among the ones I thought about.
Or a different approach could be considered. Suppose you could set up some 'reserve' slots for your army which would be comprised of those units that you do not put into the fight 'just yet', kind-of like the 3v3 Duel system works (where this reserve would be considered the other 'heroes'). Obviously this 'reserve' space should be quite big for a big army to fit in, both from reinforcements and other allied players. So you could have a group of army fighting during the day, and when night comes up, you go put these in reserve to rest, and get your army from the reserve to fight. Of course, if the enemy doesn't 'attack' (in the long battle sense, not the adventure) during the night, you could simply rest with all units as well. Of course your units are typically split and less efficient since some of your army is now in the reserve space this way, but otherwise you would have to confront with that 'tired' effects that lower initiative & hit points on units that have fought without a break.
And of course reinforcements from either you or your allies can come up in the battle too, not only in adventure mode. The system is not too hard to imagine, it is similar to 3v3 Duel mode, where your other 'heroes' are the reserve space or reinforcements (that join the reserve first too, and you put them in the battle if you want).
What do you think?
|
|
Andrelvis
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted February 17, 2008 12:18 AM |
|
|
|
About the army getting tired because of the lack of rest, what do you think of having some sort of cease-fire option? It happened quite frequently in real-life battles, troops would momentarily withdraw to rest, eat, etc. and then they would reengage.
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted February 17, 2008 12:35 AM |
|
|
Yes that would be kinda like putting them in the reserve space 
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted February 17, 2008 11:01 AM |
|
|
Much as I appreciate this idea as being very innovative, I think perhaps it overcomplicates things? I mean, even after reading this fairly thoroughly, I'm not sure I understand who will move when, who will chose what to do, in which order things will come, etc. - and I'm still left with the question: What does this add to the game? I can see it will open for more varied battles, but I'm also afraid it will make planning (which is a huge part of tactical games) are real nightmare, not to say virtually impossible.
But prove me wrong.  I would like to know a bit more about how to implement the thing with multiple armies on the battlefield etc.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
arantir
Tavern Dweller
The Good Necromancer
|
|
posted February 17, 2008 10:18 PM |
|
|
But this long battle must not apply to all simple battles. It is better to use it in important battles like bosses and final battles (or at the end of each mission); moreover, I suggest that there should be after these important battles a hero-to-hero battle, which each hero of each faction can fight the other in a different game play, example (Isabel and Biara) at the end of Tribes of the East.
____________
"There is no one left to seal away your father. You have beaten me, and murdered the world."
|
|
imp
Hired Hero
|
|
posted February 18, 2008 02:22 AM |
|
|
of course it wouldn't apply to simple battles. they would not reach the 30 minute time span.
at alcibiades: The game would still keep the same turn based style. player one would move then player two, ect. but any battles between two opposing teams would take place after everyone moved. so on day one eveybody moves like normal, but then if player two attacked player 4 on day one then the battle would start after everyone had allready moved. so the only difference on when things happen is that the battles happen after everyone has already moved. as for this feature making planning impossible, it would just make players explore more of the map. if you are going to attack a large hero that may take you more than one day to defeat, then you will want to make sure that he will not be able to get reinforcements. so youll want to be able to see the land around the hero and make sure that he does not have any ally heroes nearby. if he does have ally heroes nearby then you might want to cut them off with another one of your heroes. or if he does get reinforcements then you will want to have some of your own to counteract them.
at thedeath: i like your idea. there would still have to be a break in fighting though because people would still have to move and manage their castles. i think that having troops suffer from fatigue would be a great idea and that the people who planned ahead(made reserve slots or had new armies on the way) would get the reward and not have the fatigue penalty.
|
|
landsknecht
Adventuring Hero
Askin' for war :p and payments
|
|
posted February 18, 2008 05:50 AM |
|
|
|
Time limit features should be implemented, (and unfinished combat should be displayed as "melee cloud" animation (think of cartoons!) :lol: )
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted February 18, 2008 07:29 AM |
|
|
Quote:
As for this feature making planning impossible, it would just make players explore more of the map. if you are going to attack a large hero that may take you more than one day to defeat, then you will want to make sure that he will not be able to get reinforcements. so youll want to be able to see the land around the hero and make sure that he does not have any ally heroes nearby. if he does have ally heroes nearby then you might want to cut them off with another one of your heroes. or if he does get reinforcements then you will want to have some of your own to counteract them.
Yeah, that's what I am afraid would happen, that you attack someone you think is weak, and then they bring in reinforcements. What about cities, if you attack a city, will they also be able to run their turn and buy creatures to defend?
EDIT > And another question: How do you determine in advance, whether a battle will last more than 30 minutes?
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
arantir
Tavern Dweller
The Good Necromancer
|
|
posted February 18, 2008 05:35 PM |
|
|
|
imp
Hired Hero
|
|
posted February 19, 2008 06:11 AM |
|
|
|
you wouldn't determine in advance if a battle would last thirty minutes or not. in every battle there would be a timer and if you reached it the battle would stop. so this would only happen on really big battles. about attacking a weak hero and then having him get reinforcements, remember it takes 15 minutes for the reinforcements to arrive so he would have to already have a substantial army in order for the reinforcements to arrive in the first place. he would have to hold you off for quite a few turns. on seiges, yes they could still manage their castle and buy reinforcements. i guess it wouldn't really make sense that they could build though. so in a seige they could still buy reinforcements but not upgrade their castle.
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted February 19, 2008 04:40 PM |
|
Edited by TheDeath at 16:41, 19 Feb 2008.
|
Remember than strategists exist in real life, and they have this precise job -- and the element of 'surprise' by bringing reinforcements is perfectly strategical and not absurd. Yes you'll have to prepare & scout if you want to be efficient, but isn't that real strategy anyway? So this idea just promotes strategy instead of anything else 
Quote:
there would still have to be a break in fighting though because people would still have to move and manage their castles.
well I thought this was a turn-based game, so you could manage your castle without taking "game time" at all (only takes "real time"). For this to work of course we'd need some kind of 'go to town view' during the battle -- not too hard if we're talking about a new game rather than an expansion
|
|
|
|
