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| Thread: Town views: what can be done? | |
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted November 15, 2001 03:05 PM |
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Town views: what can be done?
There's a lot of talk in various threads about how disappointing the town views are. So how about making some suggestions on improvement and spelling out what exactly is wrong.
Right now the towns are disturbingly alike and the difference between an asylum on grass and an asylum on rough is bigger than to a haven on grass. In other words the identity of the towns have been lost becuase the buildings have been streamlined to look a lot more alike (both in shape and in size) between the towns, and in particular this applies to the Halls and the Castles. This means that the mood of the towns are gone (at least when it comes to vision and colours). The indication is that the music will be quite different, but we're anyway facing a major deterioation of town mood/identity.
The only reason I've seen for this is that they want to make it easier for the beginner to find buildings. For my own part I'd never recruit the creatures from the indiviual dwellings in Heroes 3. I'd always take them from the Castle, and if I have many Castles I'll recruit from the Town overview screen. So I'd say there's no reason for placing the dwellings in the same place at all.
With the screenshots I've seen I don't understand why they don't put the common GUI somewhere on the bar at the bottom close to the town garrison.
Say something like this:
Creatures: You could recruit them from the icons to the left of the garrison.
Build buildings, Buy artifacts, Trade wares, Caravans, Hire Hero: Add an icon for the hall, blacksmith, marketplace, carvan starting point, and Tavern to the left of the castle's available creatures. (And for all I know some of these things may be accessible though the same building already. There doesn't seem to be three separate buildings for blacksmith, marketplace and caravans.)
To interact with a building you can either click on the building or select the icon. The beginner would use the icons as his/her interface.
Perhaps one or two more icons will be needed but there's enough space to fit in at least 6 icons (2 columns with 3 icons), with some rearrangements.
The "town look" at the far left on the bottom bar is also too vague. It looks very similar between the towns. What's needed is what we have in Heroes 3 with a distinct town portrait and a scrollbar to scroll between towns. The location on the map is more appropriate to show in the Town Overview screen, and so could be removed from the town screen.
When it comes to Shipyards, they could remain in one corner of the town picture.
Okay, so what's wrong with the town pictures then:
*A third of the picture is wasted as empty sky with no buildings. This looks the same between towns.
*Buildings are overall too small. This applies to every building except the Shipyard and the mage Guild. This makes the player a distant visitor, rather than an actor.
*Dwellings look exactly the same in different landscapes. (For instance in snow landscape I'd expect some snow on the dwellings.)
*Buildings are standalone with no connections to each other.
It's the terrain and not the town which is the first thing the player notice. Thus the mood of the town is lost. This is worsened by the fact that the dwellings looks the same in all terrains.
*The placing of the buildings are not done to reflect the town. The town of chaos would be expected to have a chaotic placing while the town of order would have an orderly placing of buildings.
How I'd like the town to appear:
*Buildings should be overall larger and integrated with each other and the terrain.
*Buildings should be arranged in a way suitable for the town's "alignment". (Placing should not be the same more than for perhaps one or two key buildings.)
*Difference between town views should be much bigger.
*Less area which is always empty. The sky would either have to be removed/reduced or some of the towns would have to have objects in the sky. If the sky stays it would have to reflect the "mood" of the city and the terrain.
*Some towns should have roads to connect the buildings.
Overall a lot of work needs to be done, but this is the area where I see most of the improvement work is needed. I'm fairly satisfied with creatures and the adventure map and and many other things. The town view is the thing I find most disappointing, and where I'd expect better.
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted November 15, 2001 03:59 PM |
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I agree that the towns have lost their mood and identity by looking so generic, especially given that the backgrounds reflect their actual terrain. This makes it more realistic (yeah, like we really need THAT in a game) but takes away its overall theme (Necropolis town had a darkness theme, Inferno had a burning fiery feel to it, Tower was snowy, etc..). I liked the H2/H3 style better. Now I'm going to have to suspend my disbelief when I see a volcanic version of the Academy, which was previously known for its snowy theme.
Unfortunately, it's probably too late to change anything now, and it would take time to redesign the buildings. Perhaps they could assign a native terrain to each of the towns and then include an option to "always show native terrain background" instead of dynamically reflecting the true terrain. That way I would at least get used to seeing what the towns are like and associate Necropolis with the fiery background. Its still not quite H3, but it's closer.
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Dajek
Known Hero
Psychedelic Knight
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posted November 15, 2001 10:52 PM |
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Actually I think it`s not that big problem. People get used to everytihng you know. After a few weeks I think you will too.
BTW it`s too late too for changes now.
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted November 16, 2001 01:33 AM |
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1.Placing the town on different types of terrain acording to the map seems to me a good idea (maybe the only).
2.Sizez in buildings are indeed to small and alike with some exceptions like Djive said. A castle or dragon dwelling should be much larger than others.
3.Placing the shipyard in the same spot is so stupid I won't even comment on that.
4.Except preserve (which by the way is best looking in my opinion) the towns have the same terrain: terraced and too few roads and means of communications; as I've said before, it's not a plantation of trees but a functional town! One can see the exact distances between buildings are rigurously kept. Not good!
5.Sky, Djive, I think is important, they should keep it, it looks good and adds to atmosphere (exept for Necropolis which deserves a darker sky).
6.Houses. More houses. A town doesn't have only functional buildings but also houses where inhabitants are supposed to live. And they shouldn't look like blocks of flats as they do now but more rustical, wooden or stone.
7.They should add something specific to each town: a cemetery for necros, forests for preserve, training grounds for barbarians and so on.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted November 16, 2001 03:07 AM |
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Numbering refers to Vlad's post.
3.I kept this so beginners could easily find it.  Mind you, the two corners are the best place to place the shipyard. You're not likely to find this structure in the centre of a town but in the outskirts.
4.I wouldn't count on Preserve looking green in all terrains. We may not have seen the best or the worst examples here.
5.They can keep the Sky, but then they should try to place some structures in it. If they keep it it must be tailored to the town's mood more. Currently the Sky takes up almost a third of the town view and contains nothing (except clouds). If nothing else I'd expect the Hall, Grail, and Castle towering up into the sky. I've a nagging feeling that the sky will depend on the terrain more than on the town type. On the other hand, the screenshots are not really conclusive here.
6.Agree with houses.
7.There are already a few specific buildings for each town. Do you mean special building when upgrading the hall/castle or something else?
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted November 16, 2001 03:35 AM |
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In h3, in the Castle the shipyard was right in the middle of the image( but at the outskirts of the town, as you want it, and me too...) and it looked incredibly nice. It doesn't really depend on the position of the shipyard but the perspective of the town... it's the same for all towns and it bothers me.
Yes, important buildings should tower up.
Hopefully Preserve will retain it's green on all maps, or it wouldn't be Preserve anymore...it needs vegetation as the necros need graveyards.
I was not talking about specific buildings, they already are in their places, but specific "areas" that add to the town (like the graveyard in Necropolis in h3, without a functional role, just for the image).This way it would be nice to see zombies rising from the ground, elves practicing archery on a shooting range or barbarians wrestling on a field at the outskirts of the town. That would be harder, because it means animations, but it would be worth the effort, don't you agree? It would mean an ALIVE town !
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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