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| Thread: Best US President of all time |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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mvassilev
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posted July 05, 2008 05:07 AM |
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Best US President of all time
So, to take a break (though I predict it will only be a temporary one) from all of the God/moral philosophy/abortion debates that every thread seems to turn into, let's discuss who we think is the best US President of all time.
Overrated Presidents:
Abraham Lincoln
While Lincoln is popular these days, and part of it deservedly so, he was not as good of a President as people now like to claim. Why not? Three main reasons. First, he fought to keep the South instead of letting it secede. The South even today is a poor and reactionary area, and is probably the worst part of the United States. The rest of the country would be far better off without it. Second, he suspended habeas corpus. This was an authoritarian measure. Third, he was a protectionist, and like all protectionists, lacked a basic understanding of economics. His only positive accomplishment was freeing the slaves in the Confederacy, and while a major accomplishment, only serves to make him not entirely bad.
Franklin D. Roosevelt
FDR is also popular these days, and much of it was because of his innovative New Deal and because of his war leadership. The New Deal, though, can't be looked at as one solid item, as it consisted of many parts, some of them very good (like getting off the gold standard) and some of them horrible (like price and wage controls), and many in between, that made sense in Depression times but don't make sense in normal times. Also, there was the matter of Japanese internment, which was a major violation of civil liberties.
Ronald Reagan
Ronald Reagan never did anything as bad as Lincoln or FDR, nor were his positive accomplishments as great as theirs. Reagan's positive accomplishments mainly consisted of trimming the fat of the welfare state. But sometimes he went too far, and, despite his talk of fiscal responsibility, generated a sizeable budget deficit. His biggest mistake, however, was not something he did using the office of the Presidency but as the general leader of the Republican Party: he let the religious right into politics (see, I knew it wasn't long before we'd get into religion!), and that's haunted the US ever since.
Underrated Presidents:
George H. W. Bush (Bush Sr.)
Bush Sr managed a successful Persian Gulf War. He never tried to do anything as stupid as to overthrow Saddam. While his policies were hardly non-interventionist, his foreign policy was generally a success. He also negotiated NAFTA. Finally, he raised taxes, not to give money to welfare bums, but to eliminate the budget deficit.
Bill Clinton
Yes, laugh about his sex scandals all you want, but it's hard to deny that Clinton was a good President. First, he changed (though unfortunately only temporarily) the Democratic Party by not supporting the welfare state as much as was the custom within the Party at the time. Second, he signed NAFTA, which, though controversial now, most economists agree had a positive impact. Third, his welfare reform reduced the taxpayer's burden of welfare bums, and helped the economy. And fourth, he eliminated the budget deficit and gave America a budget surplus, that the current Bush unfortunately squandered.
Grover Cleveland
Who? This late 19th Century President is not well-known these days, but out of all the Presidents that basically did nothing back then, he lowered tarrifs. He also helped break the Republican dominance at the time, although it would be quite a while before another Democrat would be put into the Presidency.
Dwight D. Eisenhower
Eisenhower had basically three major positive accomplishments: one, he prevented Robert A. Taft from winning the Republican nomination and becoming Presdent, two, he temporarily broke the Democratic dominance at the time, and three, he built the Interstate highway system. His biggest mistake was overthrowing Mossadeq in and installing the Shah in Iran.
But who was the best President, and who was the worst? It's hard to say who was the best, but the worst was Warren G. Harding, who was extremely corrupt and died of a heart attack after the public found out how corrupt he was.
But the best? It's hard to say, but my top five Presidents include: Clinton, Bush Sr, Kennedy, Theodore Roosevelt, and Grover Cleveland.
Let the discussion commence.
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OmegaDestroyer
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posted July 05, 2008 05:10 AM |
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President James K. Polk.
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mvassilev
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posted July 05, 2008 05:13 AM |
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william
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LummoxLewis
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posted July 05, 2008 08:07 AM |
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What about presidents of all other countries? The US isn't the only place that has presidents. What about Australian Prime Ministers like John Howard or Kevin Rudd at the moment. Why is it always about American politics but hardly ever about other countries? 
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Binabik
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posted July 05, 2008 10:12 AM |
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Well, for several reasons it's really hard to compare presidents I remember with ones from a history book. I've lived through 10 presidents but don't remember Eisenhower at all and only remember Kennedy and Johnson at a superficial level.
During my lifetime BY FAR the best president was Reagan. Nobody else even comes close. Mvass, you try to list his accomplishments, but you missed the most important one, his leadership ability. People LOVED him. In the political sense all presidents are liked by those who agree politically and disliked by those who don't agree. But when a president is truly loved by the people (like Reagan) or truly hated by the people (like Bush Jr), that's really saying something.
OK, much of the credit has to go to just being the right person in the right place at the right time. Social unrest was far higher than it is now. The economy was MUCH worse than it is now. The world was a MUCH more dangerous place than it is now. (It might not seem like it but the world is basically at peace now, probably the most peaceful it's been in at least 100 years.)
The demographics were there for a major economic recovery and for society to settle down after the Vietnam War and the turmoil of the 60s and 70s. Ford and Carter were "buffer" presidents who didn't do much, which is just what the country needed at the time. They provided somewhat of a cooling off period. After the smoke had cleared from the 60's and 70's, the demographics were there for some things to happen. But what the country needed was a catalyst and Reagan provided that catalyst. He was the coach and cheerleader. When the team was in the last half and losing, with their heads turned down in defeat, Reagan gave his pep talk and cheered them on. He let them know they could do it. He made people feel good about themselves. He made them feel good about their country again. In short, he gave them confidence. The party was over and it was time to roll up the sleeves and get to work.
Yes, he was largely a catalyst, but a very strong catalyst. The result was a huge economic boom which lasted into the late 90s. And in some ways it still affects the economy in positive ways. The present economy might not be good, but it would be far worse if it weren't for the near total rebuilding of the national infrastructure that occurred during the 80's. When the infrastructure is there, it makes for a much faster and stronger recovery when the current cycle is over.
I could go on and on about Reagan, but I should stop. No, not everything he did was positive, but the bottom line was very very positive.
Overrated: Bill Clinton
Basically he didn't do anything of significance. He signed NAFTA??? Yea, I remember that one. Clinton loved taking credit for things that he had nothing to do with. And NAFTA is a perfect example. He was bragging and strutting around about NAFTA, when signing it is the ONLY thing he had to do with it. It had been in negotiation for years and the last details were being hammered out at the time he took office. If I remember right he was only in office a few months when it was finished. But he still took credit for it.
And welfare reform??? You gotta be kidding me! Welfare reform was BIGTIME Reagan era economics. Welfare reform was probably the number one defining issue separating Republicans from Democrats. The Republican argument for welfare reform was so overwhelming that the Democrats eventually had to admit they were wrong. When Clinton and the Democrats bragged about "their" welfare reform, what they were really doing was admitting defeat and giving in to what the Republican minority party had been trying to do for a very long time.
Underrated: Bush Sr
I agree that he was underrated.
"his foreign policy was generally a success"
Hmmmmm, not sure how to put this. The world was going through MAJOR changes at the time. The breakup of the Soviet Union and the beginning of independence for many of the bloc countries being the most obvious, but certainly not the only changes happening. There were major changes going on throughout the world. Peace was breaking out around the world. (although like a baby getting new teeth it was painful at times) And it wasn't just military/political changes, but social, economic and technological changes as well.
Bush did play an active roll in a few of these things. But I think mostly he was very good at presiding over the rapid changes in a calm business-like manner. Changes of that magnitude can so easily get out of control and get ugly real quick. It takes real strength to stay calm under those circumstances. He got a lot of flak from the press about his domestic policy (or lack thereof), but domestic policy is FAR from being the president's main duty, foreign affairs is his main job. Bush definitely had his hands full with global changes, and he managed it extremely well.
Time to quit, but...
Overrated: Kennedy and Lincoln
Underrated: Nixon (I'm serious - Tricky Dick was pretty dorky, but he was extremely intelligent)
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Binabik
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posted July 05, 2008 10:17 AM |
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Quote:
What about presidents of all other countries? The US isn't the only place that has presidents. What about Australian Prime Ministers like John Howard or Kevin Rudd at the moment. Why is it always about American politics but hardly ever about other countries?
If Australians don't start/participate in threads on Australian politics, that's not American's fault.
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Minion
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posted July 05, 2008 10:21 AM |
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Mvass has some touch of objectivity here 
You on the otherhand could have just written that all democrats are overrated and all republicans are underrated, would have saved you some time 
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Binabik
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posted July 05, 2008 10:23 AM |
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OK, Democrats are overrated and Republicans are underrated.
You think I'm not being objective? Then show me where I'm wrong.
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william
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LummoxLewis
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posted July 05, 2008 10:25 AM |
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Quote:
If Australians don't start/participate in threads on Australian politics, that's not American's fault.
That's just the point, there are hardly ever any Australian Political threads around here, it is just mainly American all the time. I'm not too serious, but wherever I go there is always something about America
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make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
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Minion
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posted July 05, 2008 10:33 AM |
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That is your opinion, it is not that you are wrong. (just maybe can't see beyond your partylines ) And I can't comment, I know only the latest four US Presidents with adequate detail...
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Binabik
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posted July 05, 2008 10:34 AM |
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Yea, but you still can't blame Americans for it. If you want Australian threads then start one.
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william
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LummoxLewis
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posted July 05, 2008 10:36 AM |
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I'm not blaming Americans at all. I just think there is a lot of American talk wherever I go, that's all.
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Geny
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted July 05, 2008 10:37 AM |
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That's because you only go to the otherside.
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Doomforge
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posted July 05, 2008 10:42 AM |
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Too much America speak? You should have seen Poland under communism. The major topic was US. People spoke about it as it was some mysterious, unreachable paradise. Everyone wanted to go there It remained like that a good couple years after communism fell. I recall myself as a 5 year old boy plotting with my sis how to get to America
I am familiar with the latest US president only, but I can't say anything about him. Media here try to ridicule him in every way. Perhaps he is a bad president, perhaps not. The bad thing is that he lost credibility after the whole "Iraq has nuclear weapons" discussion, where he acted like a zealot.
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Binabik
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posted July 05, 2008 10:43 AM |
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Quote:
just maybe can't see beyond your partylines
I'm FAAAAR from being a partyline conservative. I can't stand the current Bush and the current Republican leadership. I've been complaining about them for 15 years.
You didn't see me put Bush Jr in either the overrated or underrated category. He's exactly what people think he is, an idiot.
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Mytical
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posted July 05, 2008 10:47 AM |
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Edited by Mytical at 11:07, 05 Jul 2008.
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If you want to know who some nominees are for the best, just look at Rushmore. There you have 4 nominees. What makes a great president, however?
Is it determination, like "Walking Softly, but carrying a big stick?" or uniting a people? "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." followed by "I ask that the Congress declare that since the unprovoked and dastardly attack
Is it strength of character? "I can not tell a lie, I chopped down that cherry tree." Or not flinching when there is trouble? "We will accept nothing less than full victory" Dwight Eisenhower from the D-Day Order Speech.
To me one person has always came to mind when they mention great american presidents. George Washington. He never wanted the position, carried out the duties unflinchingly, and never complained or blamed things on somebody else when things went wrong. He was president in some of the harshest times in American History. Sure there have been other greats after him, and some might have done the job under a bit more trying circumstances. When you think of the greats, however, regardless of whoelse comes to mind..his name always does.
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Aculias
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posted July 05, 2008 10:51 AM |
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It's all about Zach Taylor man.
The civil war would of started much sooner if he did not die on us during his presidency while eating some nice fresh berries.
Still natural causes.
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Binabik
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posted July 05, 2008 10:53 AM |
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@Doomforge. I don't know about the "official" policy, but the American people completely backed Solidarity and Walesa. He was like a hero to Americans. He had big balls to do what he did
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Minion
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posted July 05, 2008 10:55 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
just maybe can't see beyond your partylines
I'm FAAAAR from being a partyline conservative. I can't stand the current Bush and the current Republican leadership. I've been complaining about them for 15 years.
You didn't see me put Bush Jr in either the overrated or underrated category. He's exactly what people think he is, an idiot.
Fair enough.
So hit me with the best democratic president there has ever been, who would he be? After that I need to get out of this topic as I really have nothing to contribute
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Binabik
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posted July 05, 2008 11:03 AM |
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Briefly:
FDR certainly comes to mind. He was a lot like a Democratic Reagan, for many of the same reasons. People loved him. He was a great leader and gave confidence to the people during hard times. His approach was a simplified common sense approach (also like Reagan).
In other threads I've gone on at length about how the president has very little actual domestic power. FDR and Reagan were both exceptions to this and were highly effective.
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