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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Season 2 for ToH!
Thread: Season 2 for ToH! This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted September 01, 2008 02:10 PM
Edited by Elvin at 14:11, 01 Sep 2008.

Season 2 for ToH!

New month, new options, new season As of today the ToH player ratings are reset so it would be an excellent opportunity for those that would like to give it a try. Good thing is that win-loss ratio and maps played are still there so you have an idea who you are facing. However that is irrelevant for two reasons:
The really good players will probably not play anyway you until you get better. And if they do you only stand to gain from that. Losing to someone with a higher score will take away few of your points so it's a pretty good tradeoff for experience. But if you DO manage to win you get a load of points

That said expect some losses early, my initial score was 4-0 and it was not in my favour But ToH is not just a corner of experts, there had been an influx of newbies lately so you could compete with new blood as well.

I'll be keeping an eye here in case you have any questions. Those that plan to try but prefer to get some training first I can only suggest this: To heck with the training, playing is the best teacher there is
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted September 01, 2008 02:16 PM

Good luck, mates. Good luck Elvin

I don't like being worse than anybody and to be the best I'd have to play a few hours every day, so I won't participate, I guess, but thanks for the invitation

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted September 01, 2008 02:19 PM

I hardly play everyday, often staying away for weeks at a time yet I came close to being an emperor It's not a race, the tournament will drag on for a long time as the last one did. Still hesitant? Come on, you know I respect you as a player and I know you could be an asset. You could catch up quick.
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samiekl
samiekl


Supreme Hero
posted September 01, 2008 02:19 PM

I play once a week. Sometimes less. You can win vs some people. I can also commit suicide for example

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Darkshadow
Darkshadow


Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
posted September 01, 2008 02:21 PM

I could try, would get me into playing ToTe again.
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Asheera
Asheera


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
posted September 01, 2008 02:27 PM

Good Luck, Elvin! I hope you will become the greatest Emperor
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted September 01, 2008 02:28 PM

Not anytime soon
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outshined
outshined

Tavern Dweller
posted September 01, 2008 11:07 PM

I'd like to get into Heroes multiplayer, but I can't really creep most maps on heroic consistently enough to be any good yet. Success or failure seems very narrow; if I get that one spell I need in the mage guild or the right support hero shows up in the tavern I do ok, but if the planets don't align perfectly I'm boned =P.  

Many times, I find myself kiting stacks with a pack of sprites or something, only to be infuriated when the neutrals get morale and then get a double move =/.  

I'd be a pretty lame opponent.  

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted September 01, 2008 11:10 PM

We don't play heroic which I understand is a world of a difference compared to hard. Yes creeping means a lot but it can be learnt.
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outshined
outshined

Tavern Dweller
posted September 01, 2008 11:15 PM

You usually play on hard then?  Heroic is quite difficult... very large neutral stacks, little resources starting out.  I think I would find Hard a lot more manageable, given a few more resources to play with to build up a better creeping force.  


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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted September 02, 2008 09:10 AM

Heroic just puts more emphasis on spells like conjure phoenix/blade barrier than on warmachines&cretures for creeping. That's why it's a bit badly balanced. Might heroes need creatures to win. On heroic, they may not be able to accumulate enough to defend against a cheap warlock/wizard/necromancer rush. Hard is just better

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outshined
outshined

Tavern Dweller
posted September 02, 2008 06:47 PM
Edited by outshined at 18:56, 02 Sep 2008.

Yeah, I've noticed that about Heroic mode; the number of viable hero builds seems to be greatly cut down; you can't rely purely on your creatures to win very often at all.  

A lot of times you have to abuse the AI/spells to win the harder battles.  

I wanted to take the opportunity to ask the vets how they solve a number of problems that trip me up consistently when I practice for multiplayer:

1) How do you deal with large stacks of shooters very early on?  As an example, I keep running into obnoxious situations where I'll end up having to clear a horde of Gremlin Saboteurs and then a horde of Assassins to get my Wood and Ore mines on Day 1.

2) When do you typically build up the Mage Guild?  I'm always loathe to stop building dwellings/forts because I want to get those growths started as soon as possible, but...  

3) What do you do when really annoying stacks guard important map points?  As an example, a critical mine guarded by arcane archers/druid elders/archmages, etc. etc.?

4) If you get two (of the same) towns, should you first concentrate on getting Tier 7 creatures in your primary town, or should you build the towns more or less evenly?  About when should you expect to have all of your dwellings built in your main town?


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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted September 02, 2008 07:31 PM

Quote:
1) How do you deal with large stacks of shooters very early on?  As an example, I keep running into obnoxious situations where I'll end up having to clear a horde of Gremlin Saboteurs and then a horde of Assassins to get my Wood and Ore mines on Day 1.


If you started with a hero that has warmachines, like Deleb, Telsek or Vittorio, you can get tent skill fast with a bit of luck. Most of the maps have dolmen of knowledge and a bit of chests around so you can advance to level 3-4 the first day. With tent, there should be no loses.

Magical factions can use a tank that can't be affected by poison/wasp swarm (like gargoyles for academy) or invisible units (stalkers/dungeon) together with eldritch arrow spell to minimize loses.

Quote:
2) When do you typically build up the Mage Guild?  I'm always loathe to stop building dwellings/forts because I want to get those growths started as soon as possible, but...


With a magical faction, asap. With might faction, I build mage guild level 2-3 around second week if I need it and wait for more resources to finish it.

Quote:
3) What do you do when really annoying stacks guard important map points?  As an example, a critical mine guarded by arcane archers/druid elders/archmages, etc. etc.?


The art of creeping, my friend. Each faction has its own unique ways of dealing with such foes..

For example:

Haven: fast champions + regeneration or vittorio with his tent & lots of crossbowmen & divine guidance
Inferno: deleb with tent + meatshields or alastor with swift mind
Dungeon: 7 stacks of 1 stalker, fireball or meteor shower.

That should guarantee no loses.

Quote:
4) If you get two (of the same) towns, should you first concentrate on getting Tier 7 creatures in your primary town, or should you build the towns more or less evenly?  About when should you expect to have all of your dwellings built in your main town?


getting all dwellings is not important. There are key units for each faction you need asap - the rest is pretty much an addon, you can do well without them. Level 7s are not always the necessity - most of the necromancers never builds their level 7 units for example.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted September 02, 2008 07:40 PM

About mage guilds I'm a bit more conservative If the map is rushing sure go for it, if not I prefer to have castle and tier 7 week 2 - so at best a mage guild 2 on early week 2.

As for two towns it depends on gold and resources mostly. But you usually aim for those key units - in sylvan's case hunters, maybe druids and unicorns for instance. In dungeon I'd get dark raiders and hydras but would not really care about witches, they are both expensive and they don't affect the game much. And so on.
If the map is richer and has a tier 7 dwelling it may be a good idea to build a second dragon dwelling and skip the rest.
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Asheera
Asheera


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
posted September 02, 2008 07:44 PM

I don't build Magic Guilds level 2-3 asap, only the level 1. The levels 2-3 can wait to week 2 at least
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outshined
outshined

Tavern Dweller
posted September 04, 2008 10:19 AM

Been practicing a bit more for multiplayer.  I'd heard Let's Fight! is a good map to practice creeping on, so I started there.

I'd had a lot of difficulty trying to make might factions work on Heroic, so I thought I'd get back to basics and work on Hard setting with easier creeping factions and heroes.

First more or less successful run was with Naadir.  Necro has it pretty easy, in my opinion... very forgiving in that you can deal with most any creatures early on.  Walkers?  Stack up single stacks of ghosts to block and let the skelles shoot away.  Shooters?  Put a single skeleton warrior in front of your archers and you can win most shootouts with few losses.  Casters?  MOTN your archers and then raise them after the casters are done nuking you.

It feels to me like might based factions aren't as flexible; to deal with specific threats you have to build your hero's skills a particular way, whereas most any Necro can at least raise the casualties back if you start taking losses.

On that run through, I captured the northern mines, both towns, and the tier 1-3 creature dwellings in Week One.  I lucked out a bit with tavern heroes; Haggash was able to conquer the secondary town and Tier 2 dwelling with ease while my main hero concentrated on the northern mines. I spent Week Two collecting the statups in the north, then the remaining mines and vaults near the secondary town.  I broke through the Tier 7 guards in my area early in Week 3, after a brief stop in town to grab spells.  Is this pace any good?

On my second attempt I tried with Stronghold and Haggash; I was slightly slower this time.  This time I wasn't able to capture the secondary town first week because Stronghold's Tier 2 is much more dangerous than Necro's (Centaurs vs Zombies) and also because my secondary hero was ill-equipped for fighting (Ellaine is good for support, but terrible at creeping =P).  I had a bit more trouble clearing mines because I didn't get War Machines offered early, but I did alright with archery and flaming arrows. That is, I was doing alright right up until I went to break out of my starting area late in Week 3...  it was guarded by lots of Emerald Dragons.  

This must be Stronghold's worst nightmare... with their ludicrous initiative and speed, the dragons just fly over and instagib whatever you put on the field, no matter what it is =P. I don't really see a way to avoid casualties in this situation, unless you specifically build around getting Storm Wind to slow them enough to get single stack blockers in place.  Maybe I'm thinking too much in the box...  

Anyway, after several tries, I eventually managed to clear them by blocking with single stacks of centaurs (Haggash's starting initiative bonus let them move first) and then using the Cyclops and Centaur stacks to kill the dragons.  I managed to keep the losses down to a week or so worth of Shamans, a dozen or so Centaurs, and a 100 or so Goblins... still, that's a significant amount of losses.  

 

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted September 04, 2008 10:50 AM

Quote:
First more or less successful run was with Naadir.


Good choice, he is often considered the best necro hero.

Quote:
It feels to me like might based factions aren't as flexible; to deal with specific threats you have to build your hero's skills a particular way, whereas most any Necro can at least raise the casualties back if you start taking losses.


If you have tent, they can raise casualties back too.

Quote:
it was guarded by lots of Emerald Dragons.


Those guys are amongst the worst creatures you can face, don't worry.

Quote:
unless you specifically build around getting Storm Wind to slow them enough to get single stack blockers in place.


I'd use storm wind anyway against many factions that use light magic, because it got greatly buffed in 3.1 and now is an excellent anti-sylvan skill. And an interesting creeping skill 11 init 7 speed dragons aren't very scary, and dryads that can reach like half of the map aren't scary as well. It makes other flyers, like angels, quite pathetic.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted September 04, 2008 11:51 AM

Nice. Let's fight can offer amazing chances for development or stop you in your tracks like that, too random. My usual goals are:

*Get mines and whatever you can from upper region first week.
*Get second town with a secondary on day 3.
*Get wood/ore mine, mage guild 5, vault in order to break the tier 7 on week 2.

If you were successful you get tier 7 dwelling week 2 and then you own Goes without saying that if you got emeralds only dungeon can pass(MAYBE necro) and I'm not sure in 3.1. Likewise magmas present a deadly risk. Same for mines, if you get arcanes you'll probably have to skip that particular one.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted September 04, 2008 12:00 PM

That's what I don't like in this game. It's too much of a gamble when it comes to mines and breaking. >.>

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted September 04, 2008 12:09 PM

Not in all maps, the above is the reason I don't play let's fight In any case usually maps that have tough neutrals give you free piles as in say art of war.
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