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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: [MOD TotE 3.1]Building Cost changes
Thread: [MOD TotE 3.1]Building Cost changes
alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted December 30, 2008 06:50 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 11:10, 31 Dec 2008.

[MOD TotE 3.1]Building Cost changes

This is a MOD that changes the cost of a number of dwellings and other structures in game in an attempt to even out balance issues or just things that generally annoy me. Prime target are abnormal Mercury demands for Necropolis and Stronghold, but also general irregularities in dwelling costs or ressource demands for individual factions have been addressed.

I've used this MOD for some time myself, and got so upset with a recent game today - try to play Stronghold with no access to Mercury! - that I decided to finish it and share it.

DOWNLOAD LINK: VERSION 2


Version 2 has changed Demon Bastion and Spawn Of Chaos cost compared to version 1.






Building Cost Ė changelog


Common

Blacksmith
1000 5
1000 5

Fort
5000 5 5
2500 5 5

Citadel
5000 5 5
3500 5 5

Mage Guild
Level 4
1000 5 5 3 3 3 3
1000 5 5 4 4 4 4
Level 5
1000 5 5 5 5 5 5
1000 5 5 7 7 7 7

Comments:
- Fort and Citadel costs reduced a bit as to not cripple games where town starts at level 1 so much.
- Mage Guild costs are increased a bit for levels 4 and 5 to prevent very early Phoenix / Frenzy rushes.
- Blacksmith now costs Ore instead of Wood so as to offer the alternative Marketplace vs. Blacksmith depending on your ressource situation if you need to "buy" a town level cheaply.
- All common buildings are now the same in all towns.



Haven

Marksmenís Tower
2700 10
2700 5 5

Garrison
3000 10
3000 5 5

Griffin Bastion
4000 10 10
4000 5 5

Jousting Arena
6000 15 10
6000 15 10

Order Of Paladins
9000 20 15
9000 15 10

Altar Of Light
10000 15 10
10000 15 15

Altar Of Heaven
12000 20 10
12000 15 20

Comments:
Only minor changes. Slight reduction in Wood/Ore consumption on lower levels. Switches Gem/Crystal irregularity for levels 6 and 7 to match Angel cost (Crystal).



Inferno

Demon Bastion
2500 10 5
2500 5 5 3

Raging Kennels
2500 15 5
2500 10 5

Burning Stabels
4000 5 5 10
4000 5 5 5 5

Blazing Stabels
6000 5 5 7 10
6000 5 5 5 5

Heart Of The Ashes
8000 10 10 7
8000 10 5 5

Temple Of The Fallen
10000 10 10 5
10000 10 15

Temple Of The Forsaken
10000 10 15 10
10000 10 10 20

Halls Of Horror
1000 5
1000 3 3

Sacrifical Pit
2000 5 5 5
2000 2 2 2 2

Spawn Of Chaos
1500 5
1500 2

Comments:
Heavy Mercury demand of Inferno reduced. Ressource costs are more evenly divided. Sacrifical Pit is put down in price so as to not be such a major inconvenience.



Necropolis

Graveyard
900 5
900 5

Boneyard
900 5
900 5

Festering Crypt
2000 5 3
2000 5 3

Ruined Tower
1000 5 5 3
1000 5 5 2

Vampire Mansion
1500 10 10 5
1500 10 10 3 3

Vampire Palace
4000 10 10 5 5
4000 5 5 5 5

Mausoleum
6000 10 10 3 3 3 3
6000 5 5 3 3 3 3

Forlorn Hall
4000 10 10 10
4000 10 10 5 5

Forlorn Cathedral
8000 10 5 10 5
8000 5 5 7 7

Dragon Graveyard
6000 20 20 20
6000 10 10 10

Dragon Vault
8000 20 10 15
8000 10 10 20

Dragon Tombstone
3000 10 10
5000 10 10

Comments:
Severe reduction in Mercury and Ore consumption. Dragons are now actually a viable option.



Dungeon

Labyrinth
1200 5 10
1200 5 5

Maze
2500 10 5
2500 5 5 5

Dark Enclosure
2000 10 5
2500 10 3 3

Grim Enclosure
4000 5 5
4000 5 5 5

Hissing Cavern
2500 5 5 5
2500 5 5 5 5

Rattling Cavern
4000 5 5 10 5
4000 5 5 5 10

Hall Of Shadows
4000 5 5 4 4 4
4000 5 5 3 3 3 3

Palace Of Shadows
6000 5 5 5 5 5
4000 5 5 4 4 4 4

Dragon Spire
12000 10 15 15
12000 15 15

Dragon Pinnacle
15000 15 20
15000 10 20

Trade Guild
1000 5 5
3500 5 5

Comments:
Reduction in heavy Crystal demands, particularly by reducing abnormal precious ressource demand for Dragons. Trade Guild is matched in price with Academy.
____________
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted December 30, 2008 06:53 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 19:10, 30 Dec 2008.

Sylvan

Faerie Wood
900 5
900 5 1 1

Battledance Arena
2000 10 5 2
2000 5 5 3

Hunterís Cabins
1500 12 5
2000 10 5

Stone Ring
1500 10 3 3
1500 10 10 5 5

Stone Circle
4000 10 5 5
4000 10 5 3 5 3

Unicorn Garden
6000 5 5 5 10
6000 5 5 5 5

Treant Arches
4000 15 5 5 3
4000 15 3 3

Treant Alcove
8000 10 7 5 5
8000 15 5 5

Dragon Altar
8000 5 5 15 15
8000 20 15

Dragon Shrine
10000 5 5 10 10
10000 10 20

Mystic Pond
5000 5
500 2 2 2 2

Sparkling Fountain
1000 10
1000 5

Comments:
Heavy wood demand for Sylvan is slightly lessened, same goes for Gems. Still draws heavily on Wood, however, but guess that's what you'll expect for a tree-hugging faction.




Academy

Gremlin Workshop
500   5
500   2   2

Gremlin Manufactory
1500   5
1500   3   3

Obsidian Parapet
2400
2400   5   1   1

Golem Forge
1500 5 5 5 5
1500 5 5 3 3

Golem Foundry
2500 5 5 5
2500 5 5 5 5

Mage Tower
2500 10 10 5
2500 5 5 5 5

Archmage Tower
5000 10 10 5
5000 5 5 5 3 5 3

Altar Of Wishes
2500 10 5 10
2500 5 5 5 5

Pinnacle Of Wishes
6000 5 5
6000 5 5 5 5

Silver Pavilion
5000 10 5 5 10
5000 10 10

Golden Pavilion
8000 10 10 10
8000 5 5 10 5

Cloud Coliseum
12000 10 10 5
10000 10 10 10

Thundercloud Coliseum
12000 10 10 10
12000 10 10 20

Artifact Merchant
5000 5
3500 5 5

Comments:
Academy already got lessened from its Ore burden with 3.0, so major fixes here are swapping in some precious ressources, particularly to make Mages and Rakshasa less demanding. Colossi are actually increased severely in price.




Fortress

Fighting Ring
2000 5 5 10 5
2000 5 5 3 3

Runic Chapel
3000 10 10 5 5 5 5
3000 5 5 5 5 5 5

Runic Temple
6000 5 5 10
6000 5 5 5

Clan Halls
4000 20
4000 10 10

Clan Palace
8000 10 10
8000 5 5 5 10

Lava Fissure
10000 15 10 10
10000 15 15

Lava Rift
10000 10 10
10000 15 20

Runic Shrine
Level 2
4000 2 2 2 2 2
2000 2 2 2 2 2
Level 2
6000 3 3 3 3 3
3000 3 3 3 3 3

Stone Works
1000 5 5
1000 10

Runic Sanctuary
1500
1500 5

Comments:
Major changes in a number of dwellings, particularly reduction of absurd cost for Brawlers and crippling Crystal demands for Thanes. Price of Runic Shrines are lowered, but keep in mind that Fortress no longer have discounts on Castle and Capitoll.




Stronghold

Goblin Shacks
1500 5
1000 5

Centaur Outpost
1100 5
1000 5

Centaur Camp
2500 10 3
2500 10 2

Warrior Tents
2000 5
1500 5

War Pavilion
3100 5 10 4
3000 5 5 5

House Of Spirits
3200 5 9 5
2500 5 5 5

House Of Bones
4400 5 5 7 7
4000 5 5 3 3 3 3

Chamber Of Wrath
4500 5 10 5
3500 10 5 5

Chamber Of Rage
6000 5 15 5 5
6000 5 5 5 5

Wyvern Cliff
7000 20 5
4500 10 10

Wyvern Tower
9500 15 5 10
7500 10 5 10

Cyclops Chasm
10000 15 7 5
10000 15 10

Cyclops Abyss
11000 20 10 10
11000 20 20

Garbage Pile
100 1 1 1 1
100 1 1 2

Pile Of Skulls
2000 5 4 4
2000 5 4 4

Slave Market
3500 10 10 4 2 4
2500 5 5 2 2 2 2

Comments:
Mercury, Mercury and more Mercury ... how did they ever imagine you would be able to play this faction with such absurd ressource demands? Gold and Mercury consumption is reduced severely so as to no cripple faction on maps which are scarce in this ressource. Wyverns are much more accessible now as well. Slave Market price is reduced so as to not making it so much of a nuisance in the building path.
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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted December 30, 2008 06:56 PM

Thanks a lot this should make life easier for Inferno aswell... sulfur ammounts are pretty high especially for the early stuff.
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his speech but exceeds in his
actions." Confucius

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Asheera
Asheera


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
posted December 30, 2008 08:07 PM

May I suggest reducing the cost of the Horned Demon growth boost building? It costs too much compared to the weak bonus it gives - is there anyone now who builds it until everything else is built?
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VokialBG
VokialBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted December 30, 2008 09:57 PM
Edited by VokialBG at 22:07, 30 Dec 2008.

Great mod It will make the game cooler. You'll need to have more different resources, but not in great quantities. I'm very happy to see your necro edit, the praice of ore and mercury was ridiculous (especially for the Dragons)! Also nice change in Haven and Fortress

Nival should look at this thread very carefully!
____________

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Cepheus
Cepheus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
posted December 30, 2008 10:02 PM

Ooh, this is a good one.  I know you're probably the best balancer on this forum, so I'll be using this henceforth.  Thanks!

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Nebdar
Nebdar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Generation N
posted December 31, 2008 12:09 AM

I share the same goals on this one with you Alcibiades. I wanted (long time ago)to start an discusion about building resource cost and the implicataions on player startegy and gameplay in the Temple and then make an MOD.

Thanks for making it and sharing it with us. This was very needed to the game
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JoonasTo
JoonasTo


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted December 31, 2008 12:47 AM

Alci you're my HERO!

I'll advertise this one to my friends so I never have to play the regular one again.
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted December 31, 2008 11:11 AM

Quote:
May I suggest reducing the cost of the Horned Demon growth boost building? It costs too much compared to the weak bonus it gives - is there anyone now who builds it until everything else is built?


Agreed, that was a mistake that I didn't notice that.

I've uploaded a version 2 which changes to Demon Bastion and Spawn Of Chaos growth to more suitable levels. Download link is changed in master post.
____________
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LarkinVB
LarkinVB


Known Hero
posted June 23, 2012 10:48 AM

Can you reupload this one ?

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rpgyay
rpgyay


Known Hero
posted July 18, 2012 03:58 AM

Can someone please re-upload this to somewhere like mediafire?

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted July 23, 2012 02:20 PM

I don't have the original file of this anymore, but the buildings addon from RPE is the same as this one except mage guild (to balance might and magic classes). It can be used without RPE and is still on mediafire.
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Deflaktor
Deflaktor


Responsible
Known Hero
posted December 16, 2013 09:24 AM

Here it is reuploaded
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Heian
Heian

Tavern Dweller
posted March 08, 2023 03:34 PM
Edited by Heian at 21:24, 08 Mar 2023.

Yea after 10 years .. but this post still has value and appears on google ..

So i think you favor the orcs a little, orcs doesn't require so much mercury... elfs in the 3.1 are by far one of the hardest city to build.
First of all orcs have pretty balanced resource requirements, between crystals, sulfur, gems and ore/wood. The only resource that require a little extra is the mercury ideed, but you can easly answer to such problem by building the mercury mine in the stronghold. All problems solved.
Only issue is that you require 14 mercury in the beginning, so it's an easly huge requirement, but then you don't need much more of it. The other buildings are optional, and all the cities usually struggle to get them too.
You lowered everything too much for the orcs (the gold is lowered a lot, it seems too cheap), and i know it's probably your favourite faction and the one you know the best, then pushing you to do such mod ... but with elfs, even if you get wood and crystals, it's hard to build, much harder than orcs.
Also you didn't lower gold costs for elfs, instead the orcs got a lot cheaper and you increased the gold costs for elfs too.

I love the elfs, then i will talk and criticize only the elf changes, keeping the good changes you made and changing the ones i don't like.

Sylvan city is way harder and unbalanced to build, not only it require lots of gems, which aren't a problem, thz to the sylvan mine that produces gems, but the city also need lots of crystals, which is the second issue (the first being the wood requirements). Both crystals and gems are required in huge ammounts, almost as the same as the mercury for the stronghold, and in middle/late game it's actually more.
I'm pretty happy that you did something about the elfs too, but i whould like to make some little changes, becouse it's still very unbalanced.
The elfs had almost no use of sulfur and mercury, and i agree on what you did to make more use of such resources too, but i don't like that you had to do it at the expense of gems, making the gem mine almost useless now. It's not an option anymore to build it, even though it's cheaper on gold, and the main identity of the town is lost, not being the gem oriented faction (that gets gems).
I whould like to get the old mystic pound, becouse you already added enough sulfur and mercury to other things and becouse it works as a combo with the gem mine, making it a viable option (which is now an useless option for early game, but only a passive money producing building for late game).
Overall you removed too much gems, and it doesn't fell to play elfs anymore. Before you had to choose what to build depending on your gems..
The crystals were a big issue (more than gems) and you actually increased the need for them and removed the mercury from the fountain, what was pretty cool.
Elfs not only lost their identity in this mod but it's now worst, one of the worst factions is now ever worst regarting city development.

Then we have the worst issue, that tells how little you played elfs probably , coming up with the excuse that elfs live in forests lol.
Elfs need a total of 100 ore and 177 wood. The requirements of wood are almost double the ore.
You only removed 12 wood and added lot of ore ... and the 10 wood of the 12 is completelly useless, becouse it's for very late game buildings, meaning you only removed 2 wood lol , it's basically useless for easly game. It's matematically impossible for elfs to build anything in early game, with such i mean that you only have few options to get the buildings done, sure the blacksmith helps, but not much.

There are two or tree ways to balance elfs correctly, without lowering the main requirements and making everything flat.
First option is to adjust the wood/ore ration, easiest and simplest solution, being also that elfs doesn't cut trees, then shouldn't use wood .. to counter your joke of the tree-hagging faction, which means not cutting the trees ..
Anyway first solution is easy, and makes perfectly sense, but option 2 is a bit more complicated, becouse as the market is able to exchange resources by applying a negative ratio, this can also be done to balance buildings, making factions with more unbalanced requirements easier to reach the high demand of resources, by lowering the total need of such important resource.
The third option is to add some changes to the optional buildings to manage resources better.
For example, the mystic pound can lower the bad ratio (1 each 10) of traiding for certain things, such as crystals and wood in the market (not scaling with more towns). To get wood and crystals becomes much easier with the market, making possible to use the excessive ore, mercury and sulfur (that usually reach 60,30,30 values after 2 weeks lol), that otherwise get wasted in few extra golds. This also allow more complex strategies
The other solution is that the mystic pound also gives 4 wood at the end of a week or it only gives wood or crystals at the end of the week.

The second options works like this, as an example: balanced wood&ore faction require 300 total ammount of such (150 of one and 150 of the other, while an unbalanced faction uses only 250 total resources (175 & 75).
I don't know if such thing is already applied, but if so the balanced city should be easier to build if you get both wood and ore mines, while unbalanced factions require more exploring and battles, but should also be doable to build a decent city with just one of the two mines or both.

The third option is a bit more complex to apply becouse it require a little bit more of code, but differently from the first option it adds more choice and complex gameplay, improving other aspects of the game.

The first and third options are my favourites!!

For the first options i would like to do those chances:

Battledance Arena: From your 5 wood 5 ore and 3 crystal and the 3.1 10 wood 5 ore and 2 crystal i suggest to simply swap the wood with the ore by doing 5 wood 10 ore 2 crystals.
I would also decrease the gold to 1500 or 1750 from 2000, becouse usually blade dancer upgrade gets skipped for many reasons .. and it's as expensive as the 3rd level , making no sense to even think of doing the melee weaker units.
Also because you increased the 3rd level cost from 1500 to 2000, so to balance things it's reasonable to make the blade dancers from 2000 to 1500.

Battledance Arena
2000 10 5 2
2000 5 5 3
1500/2000 5 10 2

Stone Circle:
It's a bit too heavy on resources, you added + 6 of rare materials, it's almost better to do the 5th level instead. Not considering that you increased the Stone Ring with +4 of crystals and gems, +2 & +2. Making druids +10 rare materials more expensive . Everything else is easy compared to making druids now. Also it's the main unit, the 4th unit.. this seems more of a nerf to elfs than an improvement.
So just lower the cost, from 4000 to 3500, or make 3&3&3&3 instead of 5&3&5&3 of the rare resources. adding then only 2 instead of 6!!! ( sulfur and mercury should still remain the least used one, to keep the town identity)

Unicorn Garden:
You can revert it to, to balance the Stone circle buff (so the 5th level building it's an actual 5th level one)

Treant Arches:
It's cheaper than the druids ... it's a 6th level unit!!
Put back the gems .. more gems!! You removed too many of them, it's best to have them as the main requirement.
Also instead of the added 3 mercury i think that sulfur is more suited, mercury should be the least used mineral by elfs.

Treant Alcove:
Same as the not upgrated one, add the gems back and use sulfur instead of mercury (but this one is optional).
Why then you complain of mercury? You add too much of it haha, now elfs are the ones who use the most mercury, from being the least users in the game, just kidding.
More gems!!!

"Upgrading seems very unbalanced now, and overall easier... reaching late game should be harder."

Dragon shrine:
The upgraded dragons are a bit cheap, maybe adding back 5 crystals and 5 wood is great ... elfs lack wood on the early/ middle game, not late game.

Mystic Pound:
It doesn't cost 5000 .. anyway it was probably not intentional xD.
Reverted!!! The gems combo was a great option.

Sparkling fountain:
Reverted! It was too iconic to be one of the only way to use mercury, and it also fits the build very well. It was a greath optional one, now it's useless.

Then i would also change one more thing that you didn't listed, becouse you changed less buildings on the elfs than other factions.
That is:
Unicorn glade:
Remove the wood and add the stone. Instead of 5 wood it's 5 ore. Also it makes more sense by looking at the building.
You can also remore the wood from the battle dancers, and add the wood to something else, like the druid upgrade.

Blooming grove:
it doesn't make sense that only for the elfs is so expensive, it's best to remove the extra 5 wood and only keep the 5 crystals, maybe 5 crystals and 2 gems. All the other factions use 5 of a rare resource.
With those changes the wood problem is a bit fixed, by removing entra 5 to 10 wood in the early/middle gamee, and adding them in the late game, instead of just 2 wood.
Then the total wood requirement goes from 177 to 165 .. that is still much more than ore, which can be increased.

What i wrote doesn't change much, but simply revert back some changes and add a few one, taking back what it was good about elfs.
The current changes are almost a nerf the town, it's almost worst, even dough you decreased a lot the needs for certain buildings.

Adding a special ability that convert ore to crystals sounds very cool, fits well the elfs and the dwarfs (that can instead get gems), and allow those towns to use more rare resources in the buildings. This change allow the game to keep the 3.1 expensive version of the town.
Making 4 unbalanced factions having the ability to get the needed 4 resources by trading or using special town abilities. The other 4 are instead more passive and balanced.


alcibiades said:
Sylvan

Faerie Wood
900 5
900 5 1 1

Battledance Arena
2000 10 5 2
2000 5 5 3

Hunterís Cabins
1500 12 5
2000 10 5

Stone Ring
1500 10 3 3
1500 10 10 5 5

Stone Circle
4000 10 5 5
4000 10 5 3 5 3

Unicorn Garden
6000 5 5 5 10
6000 5 5 5 5

Treant Arches
4000 15 5 5 3
4000 15 3 3

Treant Alcove
8000 10 7 5 5
8000 15 5 5

Dragon Altar
8000 5 5 15 15
8000 20 15

Dragon Shrine
10000 5 5 10 10
10000 10 20

Mystic Pond
5000 5
500 2 2 2 2

Sparkling Fountain
1000 10
1000 5

Comments:
Heavy wood demand for Sylvan is slightly lessened, same goes for Gems. Still draws heavily on Wood, however, but guess that's what you'll expect for a tree-hugging faction.


....


Stronghold

Goblin Shacks
1500 5
1000 5

Centaur Outpost
1100 5
1000 5

Centaur Camp
2500 10 3
2500 10 2

Warrior Tents
2000 5
1500 5

War Pavilion
3100 5 10 4
3000 5 5 5

House Of Spirits
3200 5 9 5
2500 5 5 5

House Of Bones
4400 5 5 7 7
4000 5 5 3 3 3 3

Chamber Of Wrath
4500 5 10 5
3500 10 5 5

Chamber Of Rage
6000 5 15 5 5
6000 5 5 5 5

Wyvern Cliff
7000 20 5
4500 10 10

Wyvern Tower
9500 15 5 10
7500 10 5 10

Cyclops Chasm
10000 15 7 5
10000 15 10

Cyclops Abyss
11000 20 10 10
11000 20 20

Garbage Pile
100 1 1 1 1
100 1 1 2

Pile Of Skulls
2000 5 4 4
2000 5 4 4

Slave Market
3500 10 10 4 2 4
2500 5 5 2 2 2 2

Comments:
Mercury, Mercury and more Mercury ... how did they ever imagine you would be able to play this faction with such absurd ressource demands? Gold and Mercury consumption is reduced severely so as to no cripple faction on maps which are scarce in this ressource. Wyverns are much more accessible now as well. Slave Market price is reduced so as to not making it so much of a nuisance in the building path.

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