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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted February 25, 2009 03:19 PM |
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Hm... I dislike the idea for adding campaign heroes...
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Kronos1000
Promising
Supreme Hero
Fryslân Boppe
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posted February 25, 2009 04:47 PM |
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Well I took the liberty to re-upload Andrei and Galthran made by Cepheus, because they would be great for the Haven Magic Hero and the Necro Might Hero. Maybe he could improve them if neccicary. 
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Hwær cwom mearg? Hwær cwom mago?
Hwær cwom maþþumgyfa? - 'The Wanderer'
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 25, 2009 06:29 PM |
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Here are some of the skins already in the game.
Obviously, some of them are better than others.
Haven: Isabell could go for Cleric, even if it's very like Knight.
Inferno: Sovereign would be good if resized. Is that possible?
Necromancer: Ornella could serve as might hero, but probably too knight like.
Dungeon: Here we have two well different models that could do.
Sylvan: There is only one model.
Academy: The two available models are pretty similar.
Fortress: Could do. There's also the Black-mammoth Rolf model which would be less similar to Runemage.
Stronghold: Perfect!
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What will happen now?
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted February 25, 2009 07:44 PM |
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Quote:
Well I took the liberty to re-upload Andrei and Galthran made by Cepheus, because they would be great for the Haven Magic Hero and the Necro Might Hero. Maybe he could improve them if neccicary.
Lol, I'm horribly embarrassed. Please, nobody open them  Those are from my noobish days and they really aren't good enough. 
Quote:
Inferno: Sovereign would be good if resized. Is that possible?
Sorry but forget about it, he hasn't got enough working animations to be of any use as a playable character.
By the way, let's think bigger and not limit things down to "this model, that model" etc. You can merge two models, change mounts, swap heads and weapons, et cetera. For example a second Academy hero could be the normal one with a retexture, sitting on the Memory Mentor's flying carpet instead of an elephant.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 25, 2009 08:42 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Inferno: Sovereign would be good if resized. Is that possible?
Sorry but forget about it, he hasn't got enough working animations to be of any use as a playable character.
I forgot about that. Would it be able to scale Biara model a bit up then?
Quote:
By the way, let's think bigger and not limit things down to "this model, that model" etc. You can merge two models, change mounts, swap heads and weapons, et cetera. For example a second Academy hero could be the normal one with a retexture, sitting on the Memory Mentor's flying carpet instead of an elephant.
I know, but seriusly, if there is a working model, I would rather keep things down to the ground.
I know we are able to do many advanced things, but it always takes time, and most of these very big projects end up being stuck in halfway because too many people get involved and never get their job finished.
Of course we need to hit a fitting compromise between simplicity and what can be done, but I think most important thing is actually getting the thing finished - otherwise it's worth nothing. And at the end of the day I'd rather have a slightly more simply mod than no mod at all.
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What will happen now?
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fiur
Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
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posted February 25, 2009 09:03 PM |
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Quote:
and most of these very big projects end up being stuck in halfway because too many people get involved and never get their job finished.
Of course we need to hit a fitting compromise between simplicity and what can be done, but I think most important thing is actually getting the thing finished - otherwise it's worth nothing. And at the end of the day I'd rather have a slightly more simply mod than no mod at all.
well spoken!! and I agree 100%
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 25, 2009 09:16 PM |
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One thing we could do to underscore the difference between Might and Magic heroes would be to use the Mounted model for the Might Hero and the Unmounted model for the Magic Hero.
Thus:
Haven
Might = Knight
Magic = Alaric
Inferno
Might = Demon Lord
Magic = Biara
Necropolis
Might = Necromancer (or one of the campaign models for all it matters)
Magic = Giovani
Dungeon
Might = Warlock
Magic Needs to be done
Sylvan
Might = Ranger
Magic Needs to be done
Academy
Might = Wizard
Magic = Memory mentor on flying carpet?
Fortress
Might = Runemage
Magic = Hangvul
Stronghold
Might = Barbarian
Magic = Kujin? (too good not to be used)
For Dungeon and Sylvan, we would need to find a model. I don't know if anything useful lies in some of the cut-scene files - I seem to recall Tieru is in their walking, and also in the Dungeon campaign there are some Keeper of the Law (or is that just Shadow Matriarch models?).
Would the above be doable?
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What will happen now?
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted February 25, 2009 09:21 PM |
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Edited by Cepheus at 23:04, 25 Feb 2009.
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Okay, you make a good point. We'll worry about getting the mod coded into the game and playable, and sort the graphics out later when there's something to build on.
But then, it does seem fairly trivial to bother deciding what model to use for what in any case before the mod is actually programmed in.
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SimonaK
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted February 25, 2009 10:45 PM |
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Edited by SimonaK at 22:56, 25 Feb 2009.
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Quote:
Hm... I dislike the idea for adding campaign heroes...
I dislike their unique capacities as "normal" heroes, they are not, too overpowered.
However, its a good idea to use their reference key to create new normal heroes by changing their unique capacity for normals ones like Heroes of Axeoth mod....or my own home-mod by doing a "14 heroes for each 8 factions" mod with heroes 3 and heroes 4 heroes icons.
Quote:
Quote:
and most of these very big projects end up being stuck in halfway because too many people get involved and never get their job finished.
Of course we need to hit a fitting compromise between simplicity and what can be done, but I think most important thing is actually getting the thing finished - otherwise it's worth nothing. And at the end of the day I'd rather have a slightly more simply mod than no mod at all.
well spoken!! and I agree 100%
yes, and some QP are given really too quickly about these jobs.
what is the value of QP on a unfinished mod?
« oooh! I have got a QP even if my mod is not finished, thank a lot! if I will finish it? hhuuh..of course....a day.. why not.. »
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 26, 2009 09:45 AM |
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Ok, moving right along, here is my suggestion to stick to:
a) Mounted Heroes for Might class.
b) Unmounted Heroes for Magic class.
Exceptions will be:
c) Inferno Might hero (Demon Lord) who is already unmounted.
d) Stronghold Magic hero (Battlemage) who will use Kujin model and be mounted.
My current final suggestions for models will therefore be.
Haven
Might = Current Knight
Magic = Alaric model reskinned to have a) blue robes, and b) Isabels face. Would anybody take on this job?
Inferno
Might = Current Demon Lord
Magic = Existing Biara
Necropolis
Might = Current Nexromancer
Magic = Existing Giovani
Dungeon
Might = Current Warlock
Magic = Kythra model picked from individual Hero skins thread. Can anybody confirm whether this works?
Sylvan
Might = Current Ranger
Magic = Dirael model picked from individual Hero skins thread. If somebody can make a Tieru model, all the better.
Academy
Might = Current Wizard
Magic = Memory mentor if it works? Otherwise Galib model from individual Hero skins thread.
Fortress
Might = Current Runemage
Magic = Existing Hangvul
Stronghold
Might = Current Barbarian
Magic = Existing Kujin
Issues that need to be raised would be:
- Do the custom made models referred to above actually work?
- Are there any better models around, or could anybody make some?
- Some classes seem to be more logical the other way around: To have the magic class the current mounted model and the might class the walking one (Necropolis, Academy in particular). Which solution is the better.
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What will happen now?
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 26, 2009 12:35 PM |
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I dont agree. I hate unmounted heroes, but that just mine opinion.
My ideas:
HAVEN: Cleric. Reskinned Markal as suggested.
INFERNO: Pyromancer or Demonologist. Edited Orlando model.
SYLVAN: Herbalist. No idea. Is it possible to mount Tieru or maybe the Findan model?
NECROMANCER: Death Knight. Its simple and good. Base it on the units model. The existing unit can be Shadow, Blood or Dread Knight.
STRONGOLD: Spiritwalker or Spiritualist. Kujin mounted.
FORTESS: Hesir or Warlord. Some campaign model.
ACADEMY: Tinker or Lord. Dunno about model. Maybe Godric with an academic flare as suggsested.
DUNGEON: Overlord. Based on Agrael, replace the staff or edit into a spear.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 26, 2009 02:26 PM |
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Sorry, I don't like the reskinned Markal - he still looks like a Necromancer more than a Cleric, even if his ropes are red!
As for the unmounted Heroes - I'm not too keen on the idea either, but they got the advantage that they:
a) Are easy to distinguish from mounted heroes, and
b) Are easily recognizable from their faction.
I think that's two good parts, but like I said, I'm open for using mounted alternative models also, if we can find some that look good.
By the way, I checked the Orlando model in the editor, and it looks much better than the screenshot that is floating around here, so that one could be used for Heretic also, particularly if the staff is added.
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What will happen now?
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted March 03, 2009 02:41 PM |
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Somehow the posting of the modded exe file has catched my attention.
Kronos can you give some more insight on how to use the exe file.
Is it enough to create 8 extra classes in the skills and classes tables (I know you know what xdb's i'm talking about) or am I overseeing things that need to be done (aside from attaching heroes to the classes)
Also:
-Do the classes need to have a particular name to work?
-Does it simply allow for 8 more classes or for 1 extra class for every faction. Is it theoretically possible to add 8 extra classes to the haven faction (I'm just asking this to know how it behaves)
-Is this exe file for 3.1 without any further modification (NCF,levels)?
-Does it work stable, with the extra class you created for TOK?
EDIT: I'm a bit further now but I can't make it work.
To start simple I have tried to add one renegade class to the HeroClass.xdb also add a text file with the name in the same folder.
I did everything exactly as I see how it is done in TOK1.2
I also added a .xdb file to the Creature Visual/Heroes folder (don't know if this is necessary). I tried to make some of the red knights the new class. When i start a new game The class name is NONE and with every level up it only learns defense + random secondary. This is the same behaviour I got when trying it before having the modded exe. What am I missing? I noticed the planeswalker in TOK1.2 was added to the HeroClass.xdb twice (why?), I also tried to do this but it didn't work. Help!
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Willow
Adventuring Hero
Tree of Knowledge
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posted March 07, 2009 07:48 AM |
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I'm also very interested to hear how the modded exe works and how you go about implementing the second classes. It sounds promising so far!
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SimonaK
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted March 07, 2009 05:41 PM |
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Edited by SimonaK at 17:41, 07 Mar 2009.
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Quickly:
Quote:
Do the classes need to have a particular name to work?
Yes. As the .exe waits its kind of object name to use it like a key in scripts it's already a sign of this need.
Quote:
Is this exe file for 3.1 without any further modification (NCF,levels)?
Yes. The last time I visited ToK's creatures, their numbers was between 250 and 272
known that if you don't use new creature numbers (slot) for a new faction then you are in obligation
to remplace an already existing faction by using its creature's slots.
Quote:
Does it work stable, with the extra class you created for TOK?
Why not? Some ways exists to give the impression of "new", remember your own way in your own mod « Heroes of Axeoth »
simply by changing text file by adding " (Cleric)" in the name
Quote:
Does it simply allow for 8 more classes or for 1 extra class for every faction. Is it theoretically possible to add 8 extra classes to the haven faction (I'm just asking this to know how it behaves)
It's impossible to give to each of them, an unique path of level up.
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It's impossible to add a new "something" without modifing the .exe
without .exe moddding. it's only possible to modify something already existing.
Seriously, I don't see the use for Kronos to modify .exe for its ToK project.
If he succeeded to add a nineth faction we can choose in the « Players of the Map » interface (panel)
while we're creating the map then he would must immediatly to give the offset of this modification
or give this .exe
for classes modding is the same thing, giving a « really perfect » 2 classes per faction is hopeless
but for someone which hopes for the opposite, I hope to mislead my-self.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted March 07, 2009 06:35 PM |
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Simonak I appreciate your help, but I'm not coming any further.
Quote:
Do the classes need to have a particular name to work?
I want to now if Kronos had predetermined id names for the classes in the exe.
Quote:
Yes. The last time I visited ToK's creatures, their numbers was between 250 and 272
known that if you don't use new creature numbers (slot) for a new faction then you are in obligation
to remplace an already existing faction by using its creature's slots.
This is not supposed to be the TOK exe, but a new one with 8 extra classes unlocked.
Quote:
It's impossible to give to each of them, an unique path of level up.
If that's true, then were is the exe for?, I thought Kronos did it in TOK.
So I can only hope someone can tell how to add an extra class to the game with this exe if it works by any means. Adding classes to the heroclass.xdb doesn't seems to be enough.
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SimonaK
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted March 07, 2009 08:22 PM |
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Edited by SimonaK at 20:27, 07 Mar 2009.
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Really too rumors for me.
Quote:
I want to now if Kronos had predetermined id names for the classes in the exe.
By replacing an already existing? may be.
By adding a completly new? never.
Quote:
This is not supposed to be the TOK exe, but a new one with 8 extra classes unlocked.
unlocked or created/added?
Quote:
So I can only hope someone can tell how to add an extra class to the game with this exe if it works by any means.
Ask it to Nival, I'm sure only it is able to give the answer.
Quote:
Adding classes to the heroclass.xdb doesn't seems to be enough.
Of course, it's not enough. Never just adding an ID of something in xdb file will be enough.
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted March 07, 2009 08:37 PM |
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Quote:
By adding a completly new? never.
No disrespect but you are mistaken, Kronos has indeed added a ninth hero class ID with no replacing, and with its own skillwheel. It took more than just .exe editing, of course - he also had to define the class, add its skillsets and create some heroes for it by programming .xdb files. My memories of the process are vague, but I do remember having to edit the types.xml file (this was a very important step - I think it connected the new .exe byte to the class ID).
He's busy with RL stuff at the moment, but have some patience and he'll explain. Or download the ToK beta and take a look at how it was done (I'm not sure which version of the Planeswalker is in the beta - the bugged one or the working one - but it's worth a try).
Don't ask Nival btw, there will be no answer
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted March 07, 2009 08:37 PM |
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Simonak I advise you to read this thread first, especially the posts from kronos1000:
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=29055&pagenumber=1
This is about a hex-edited exe. I need to know how to get it working NOT that things don't work without it. Because I've known that for years.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted March 07, 2009 08:41 PM |
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Quote:
Or download the ToK beta and take a look at how it was done (I'm not sure which version of the Planeswalker is in the beta - the bugged one or the working one - but it's worth a try).
I downloaded version 1.2 and unfortunately couldn't find a hint, but now you point me to xml files I will take a look again. Can in the meantime someone tell me if the 1.2 planeswalker is buggish or not?
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