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| Thread: Petition Changes for HoMM4 |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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RMS
Responsible
Legendary Hero
-ing yummy foods
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posted January 17, 2002 03:37 AM |
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lol, don't worry I'm not stupid. So what if I'm only 16? It doesn't mean I don't understand anything...I was just trying to create a thread that would draw attention, in an attempt to make a well rounded place to stick all ideas that people have that they want to change stuff with...or something.
...obviously, this even caught your eye 
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This space for rent.
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted January 17, 2002 04:12 AM |
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Looking at the towns (not their backgrounds), the buildings don't look all that unique either. The placement is exactly the same as well. To be honest, I find it hard to name a town just looking at its buildings. Not because all the buildings look similar, they just don't look unique enough and the buildings alone don't give the town enough identity. A tower in lava, or inferno in ice.. now that's something I'll find hard to accept. I just don't see how every town being seen in every terrain makes it look "unique". If anything, it adds more similarities to other towns. If the entire map has only one terrain then you're going to have some generic feeling towns. You'd have to look closely at the buildings to tell them apart. Oh well, too late to change anything now I guess.
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Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted January 17, 2002 07:09 PM |
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here we go, i have been idle for a while and now it seems i have a reply for almost everyone
vesuvius:
sounds smart, but what if i play pk mud and try to figure out why it's addictive, i try civ3 and think about the gameplay problems there, and play diablo and think why ppl like tis item-finding system, etc. e.g. civ3 is already out, still i say that managing workers and scrolling the screen is what you do most of the time and the interface for that could be better, too much depends on the starting location, culture might produce happyness instead of protect from revolt, or at least revolt should cause a fight between your troops in the town and the unhappy citizens, e.g. they might die 1:1 or so, etc.
lith-maethor:
wolves and elves in the same town sounds somewhat unusual from the tolkien style point of view. i would rather have the wolves with the orcs and goblins, etc. my personal opinion would be wolves in lev1 with barbarians preferrably with a shooter as the second lev1. the wolf appearance would suit the barbs ok imho.
wesley:
hmm.. druid turning into a wolf while moving doesn't sound bad, i might even start to like the idea of having a druid in the game.
jenova:
the problem gets even more serious with the ability to choose between creatures in levels 2..4. but there's one thing that still lets you make difference between the towns, and this is the mage guild. too bad the necro and asylum mage guilds are somewhat similar (and i don't remember what heaven mage guild was like). and another problem is that some towns may not have a mage guild built yet. on the other hand i do like realism to some extent and imho statements like turn-based battles are not realistic is as "good" as statements that fireballs aren't realistic. the game should make you believe that there actually was a fireball in that fantasy world, and it should make you feel that turn-based combat is natural, etc. the point of e.g. efreet not feeling very comfortable on snow is another good one, but maybe there should be some bonuses or penalties depending on which terrain the building is on?
niteshade:
was already starting to think that you can be reasonable after all when i read your reasoning for the dynamic backgrounds and vs having the cities as exact copies of each other, but the space invaders thing in your next post.. huh?
vlad:
so.. are you saying that a town should change the terrain the more powerful it gets?
yeah, mantis looks like a creature from a biology textbook rather than from mythology. btw what was it about realistic creatures always being cool and non-realistic creatures being cool if they are well designed (sth like that, but maybe i didn't pay enough attention and got the point wrong, so never mind).
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and.. finally.. my own take on the game problems.
the creatures should fit together (e.g. the infamous dragon golem problem and vampire problem), especially the creatures of the same town (e.g. thunderbird and other barbarians, or inferno and necro).
same thing about adventure map graphics..
about the inferno and necro creatures in same town:
1) get rid of the old necro concept and make the "necro" creatures suit the inferno style (sth like red bloody skeletons, burning ghosts, etc).
2) get rid of the inferno creatures and have a pure necro town with the classical gray colors.
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted January 17, 2002 11:44 PM |
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Never said that realistic creatures look always cool; on the contrary...the mantis is so realistic that I don't like it;
As about your choices of the necro-inferno town...I vote for your second choice.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted January 18, 2002 03:22 AM |
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Actually I disagree.. Turn based fighting is illogical, because in a real fight, because if you were really in a fantasy world (or even sci fi or modern) in a fight, people wouldn't wait for your turn and let you hit them. Fireballs however, since it is a fantasy setting are not illogical at all. It has nothing to do with realism. If there really was a fantasy world and you were a mage, fireballs are realistic. Turn based combat isn't. There is nothing that defies logic in having magic, fireballs, goblins, and other nonexistent things. They don't exist, but theoretically they could.. They don't defy the laws of physics, because they're explained away by "magic".
Turn based combat can't be explained away.. It is not magic or your fantasy setting that TBC is a part of. And a fantasy setting can't make TBC believable, nothing can. That is not to say I want turn based combat removed.. My point is that games shouldn't be built based on realism and logic.
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Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted January 18, 2002 04:48 PM |
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vlad:
btw i guess the confusing statement must have been sth about wolves looking unrealistic in an uncool way, but i didn't feel lucky enough to find it again.
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jenova:
well, you are right that there havn't been many fantasy stories/worlds where movement was turn-based.
but instead of saying that because there's one thing in the game that can't be made realistic, we should abandon all attempts toward more logic.. i would say that the things that cannot be made logical should be made to feel as logical as possible. i can see that it compromises distinguishing between some towns, but i guess the dynamic town backgrounds are an attempt to add a small roleplay detail (town has same terrain as surroundings, and towns don't look identical). the similarity of necro and asylum could be fixed by designing some buildings differently, but i have no satisfactory ideas how to overcome the problem of e.g. efreet in snow. some problems are fixed and some new ones created imho.
what i meant with the fireball analogy was that, in the ideal case, turn-based combat should be made to feel as natural as possible, just like casting fireballs has been made to feel natural. btw if you remember, i had some (maybe not very serious) idea about tbc once (well, you can see this post on this page).
chess is a good game, although there are very little roleplaying possibilities there. is that where you are getting?
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what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
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Largo_LeGrande
Promising
Known Hero
from the Carribean
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posted January 18, 2002 09:00 PM |
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Druid should be able to turn into a animal in a battle! And am I the only one who is worried about this tiny rainbow at preserve? It must be like in HOMM II!
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 -Largo has spoken-
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Wesley
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
banned
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posted January 18, 2002 09:31 PM |
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Edited By: Wesley on 18 Jan 2002
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Druid.
Should be random move.
The first turn he turns into a wolf for movement
The second turn he turns into a raven/owl for movement and has more movement.
Then the third time he turns into a wolf again and has lower movement.
He attacks in
1 50% Raven form (Low attack/Level 1 damage/chance of blinding)
2 50% Wolf form(Avarage attack/Level 2 damage/first strike)
3 1% Bear form(ultimate damage/Level 4 damage)
YOu don't know in wich animal he will turn when attack. So it is a surpice everytime you have him.
This makes a cool new furture for the game.
Druids rule!
The druid on level 3 would make the preserve much cooler. I tought preserve would be my favorite town first..
But now elves and wolves are in. And white tiger.. I don't like it anymore.
I wish they cut the wolf away! and put the druid on the Gryphon his place! Gryphon in haven and whola!
The elf must be replaced by a Sharpshooter. (or has the same cloths and bow as one)
The white tiger must move to the Stronghold
Preserve
1: Sprite(Flyer)/Satyr(Walker)/Will O Wisp(Aura)
2: Hind(Shooter)/Mantis(Walker)/Pegasus(Flyer/Aura)
3: Druid(Walker/Flyer/Aura)/Sharpshooter(Shooter/Aura)/Unicorn(Aura)
4: Dryad(Caster/Aura)/Forest Dragon(Flyer/Aura)/Phoenix(Teleporter)
Summoned:Undine(Caster)/Dendroid(Walker)
I even putted 3 units in every level. They had so much to choose about!
But what did they put in?
Boring elves and animals that are also in the real world like wolves.(They are not even oversized like the mantis is)
I have an idea for the Sharpshooter aswel.(Just like the druid)
1: 50% Fire Arrow:This does more damage then the Normal arrows he shoot.
2: 50% Cold Arrow:This can slow down enemy units. it does less damage then a normal arrow thought..
3: 1% Dark Arrow:This ultimate arrow does many damage to any unit. And the sharpshooter will gain healt. The healt will be the same as the enemy looses. If it killes an enemy(what is likely to happen) it will ressurect an death sharpshooter(If there are victims among them earlier in the battle) If not then the first sharpshooter is fully healt again.
4 1% Light Arrow:This will always kill atleast 2 undead/demon units. So when you shoot an Light arrow. And you hit an skeleton or a demon. there will be always 1 death among the demon/skeleton team. The arrow does as much damage as the black arrow. And it has also a blinding ability. Also about % so it will not always blinds you.
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Darion
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 18, 2002 09:57 PM |
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Actually... I think that something like Vlad's idea of area of influence makes sense. Most of these towns do have magic (that inherently appears in the people of the town, a passive trait) and because of their influence on the town, it creates a magical aura that generates a field of magic that surrounds the town. Thus if it were a preserve in a wintery field, it would have a snowy backdrop, but have the regular set fields of a preserve because the power of nature protects it from the elements.
Do you get what I'm saying? Or at least if you are making the town on a terrain look as if it is all in one terrain, there should be drastic changes. Therefore, in snow the building should have snow on their tops, in lava have a reddish glow, not looking as if you just cut and pasted like an amateur computer artist.
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Largo_LeGrande
Promising
Known Hero
from the Carribean
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posted January 19, 2002 08:02 AM |
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I know you (Weasly) are good at creatures. So why not elves at preserve? But I agree you with wolf and tiger? All animals should be neutral and only be recruited by summoning! And Centaur, it must be Preserve! Would someone please tell my why are they at Stronghold?
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-Largo has spoken-
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Wesley
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
banned
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posted January 19, 2002 01:02 PM |
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Centaur not in preserve because
Centaurs can't live in peace with humans.
Centaurs hate humans
The other Preserve creatures all can live with humans in peace
But Centaurs hate them.
Centaurs are rough and my choose would be Asylum for them.
Elves are stupid. And I don't like them.
Maybe High Elves in academy. (They can cast strong spells)
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InfernoGuy
Adventuring Hero
Enjoys eating chicken
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posted January 20, 2002 06:10 AM |
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you're right niteshade. Its cool when each town type has its own native terain too. (Bonuses when fighting on native terrain perhaps?)
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Its better to keep your mouth shut and be assumed stupid then open it and remove all doubt.
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Myste
Adventuring Hero
Reality Impaired
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posted January 20, 2002 12:44 PM |
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Quote:
. You look at the snowy town in H3 and can immediately identify it as the Tower, look at the town of Darkness and it's immediately a Necropolis.
Exactly. Each castle has its own special background because of what it is. I think each castle might even have some sort of self terrain thing that only can be seen within the sight of the castle. But it has not got this in Heroes 4.
<Myste>
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'The Eyes He Posses Can Watch The World'
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InfernoGuy
Adventuring Hero
Enjoys eating chicken
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posted January 20, 2002 08:24 PM |
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but centaurs are half human-half horse and are therefore "a nature creature"; the reason they were in Homm3's rampart. Centaurs are not hugely violent creatures (like everything else in the Stronghold) and should therefore be in the preserve.
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Its better to keep your mouth shut and be assumed stupid then open it and remove all doubt.
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Wesley
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
banned
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posted January 20, 2002 08:45 PM |
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Uhm...
A minotaur is half human half animal aswel.. Do you think he should be in preserve aswel?
LOL!
Centaurs aren't like other preserve creatures. They like to rule things and they love battle.
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InfernoGuy
Adventuring Hero
Enjoys eating chicken
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posted January 20, 2002 10:20 PM |
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Certainly in Greek Mythology, Centaurs are cowardly as opposed to warlike and you got me on the half human thing, lol, guess I just like centaurs in the "nature" town.
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Its better to keep your mouth shut and be assumed stupid then open it and remove all doubt.
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Wesley
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
banned
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posted January 20, 2002 10:26 PM |
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Hmmm
They removed it because.
There is the Unicorn.
In homm3 there were the
Centaur,pegasus and the unicorn.. In homm4 they want less horses in the preserve.
So they putted the centaur in the stronghold and the pegasus into a spell.. symbol...(Sorry mara!!)
Anyway They did the same to the medusa. They didn't liked to have to snake bodied. So they just gave her some reptilian like body, And the naga got the snake part ofcourse.
One thing I don't understand is the fact they gave the dragons a familiar look.. I don't like the fairy dragon and the black dragon so familiar...
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InfernoGuy
Adventuring Hero
Enjoys eating chicken
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posted January 21, 2002 01:03 AM |
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yeah we certainly have enough dragons. The black dragon looks great this time around though. I hope in the future the returning dragons have a little more to seperate themselves from each other as opposed to just a different color.
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Its better to keep your mouth shut and be assumed stupid then open it and remove all doubt.
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DarkTitan
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 21, 2002 01:09 AM |
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I only got one problem.
HOW DARE IT HAVE A 400 MHZ MINIMUM! I WONT BE ABLE TO RUN THE GAME!
stupid 3DO!
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InfernoGuy
Adventuring Hero
Enjoys eating chicken
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posted January 21, 2002 04:00 AM |
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heh i wouldnt worry Dark; if my good old 200 Mhz can run Return to Wolfenstein, you shouldnt have too much trouble with Homm4
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Its better to keep your mouth shut and be assumed stupid then open it and remove all doubt.
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