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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: [Mega-Project] The HOMM5 Role Playing Edition
Thread: [Mega-Project] The HOMM5 Role Playing Edition [ This thread is 21 pages long: 1 2 (3) 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 ]
magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Famous Hero
modding wizard
posted February 08, 2010 11:36 AM
Edited by magnomagus at 11:57, 08 Feb 2010.

@Festuc,

First of all, there is an hard-coded issue I need to inform you about, the amount of classes that is able to use melee-animations for using their normal hero-attack is limited to 8, because somehow (i don't know why) only original classes can use melee animations. That's why the gatekeeper class is internally HERO_CLASS_WIZARD and the paladin is internally HERO_CLASS_RANGER. Since I have already used all the 8 ID's I cannot use another knight model for the haven magic class, unless I give it some kind of fireball animation but that looks stupid. (you may also have noticed the runemage and flamekeeper use stormstrike animations for their attack because of the same problem, fortunately in their case it looks really cool!)

Taking in mind that problem and the fact that many people like a more 'clerical' class for haven the markal model was the most obvious pick, although I think it can use some better textures. This also applies to the death knights, probably a complete overhaul of the knight model looks better or otherwise the skin from sareth could use some more scary look.

Quote:
First:Sorry I couldnt fix the xazardous combat problem.


Thanks for trying, in the end it will not be very important. Since many people switch to wide screen these days it is just a matter of time before anyone needs to adjust xazardous mods manually or just don't care about it.
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Might and Magic Classes for HOMM5

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masonjo
masonjo


Hired Hero
posted February 09, 2010 12:46 AM
Edited by masonjo at 01:26, 09 Feb 2010.

I was reading through the manuals and found that Warlocks got a special Skill tree for Occultism and I want to know why?

Why is the Warlock the only class to get Elemental Vision and Rage of the Elements?

Also in the description for Elemental Vision:

"Allows Warlock to see elements on enemy creatures so that Destructive Magic spells cast by the hero can inflict additional elemental damage. This skill is only available to the Warlock class instead of Arcane Excellence"

There doesn't appear to be an ability called Arcane Excellence, is this just a typo?

And does Rage of the Elements replace Pariah or is it just an alternate choice? Because in the picture it has both but the description says instead of, and I don't know whether that means always, or players decision?

Final question: Why are some abilities "unavailable"? Surely they could be used for some of the less filled skill trees?

I also have a few minor suggestions:

*Can you edit the Information about Heroes mod to add to this, showing the heroes secondary skillsand any abilities they may have. Or just add that to their descriptions.

*renaming the Barbarian skill 'learning' to something more Orcish. (Would it also be possible to re-name intelligence or not as it is used for enlightenment as well, does intelligence even suit the Orcs?)

*Could the Stamina ability also be added to the Gating skill tree as it has 1 less than all the other major trees.

*The shaman should have a slightly higher chance of getting a shatter maybe 6% per summon, and lower chances of others.

Nice mod so far

Keep up the good work



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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Famous Hero
modding wizard
posted February 09, 2010 07:26 AM

Quote:
I was reading through the manuals and found that Warlocks got a special Skill tree for Occultism and I want to know why?


Because the warlock class is the only class that can use elemental vision.

Quote:
Why is the Warlock the only class to get Elemental Vision and Rage of the Elements?


First and foremost because of hard-coded limitations to modding that are impossible to solve without complex hex-editing. Secondly because I wanted to maintain some of the characteristics of faction design in TOE. this means i wanted to keep the warlock as the 'most destructive' class.

Quote:
There doesn't appear to be an ability called Arcane Excellence, is this just a typo?


Yes this is a typo, thanks for notification, I made some changes in the design after creating the skills manual and forgot to adjust these texts.

Quote:
And does Rage of the Elements replace Pariah or is it just an alternate choice? Because in the picture it has both but the description says instead of, and I don't know whether that means always, or players decision?


Another typo in the description, Warlocks cannot pick pariah because they start with elemental vision, all other classes can only pick pariah.

Quote:
Final question: Why are some abilities "unavailable"? Surely they could be used for some of the less filled skill trees?


Some are useless (like chilling bones), some are redundant or overpowered when combined with shatters (like seal and shrug darkness)

Quote:
*Can you edit the Information about Heroes mod to add to this, showing the heroes secondary skills and any abilities they may have. Or just add that to their descriptions.


Adjusting the heroes mod is certainly too much work, i'm already busy trying to implement ingame skill trees also I'm thinking about extending the manuals with this info, or at least release my XLS tables that contain it later. For the descriptions there is a problem that extra info will also show up in the hero info screen ingame.

Quote:
*renaming the Barbarian skill 'learning' to something more Orcish. (Would it also be possible to re-name intelligence or not as it is used for enlightenment as well, does intelligence even suit the Orcs?)


I agree, but do not have a good idea yet.

Quote:
*Could the Stamina ability also be added to the Gating skill tree as it has 1 less than all the other major trees.


Well it doesn't really fit there in a thematic way. Perhaps with another icon and name.

Quote:
*The shaman should have a slightly higher chance of getting a shatter maybe 6% per summon, and lower chances of others.


I agree, but unfortunately this is another hard -coded limitation, I cannot make more then one 'real' class for stronghold.

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masonjo
masonjo


Hired Hero
posted February 09, 2010 08:03 AM
Edited by masonjo at 08:28, 09 Feb 2010.

Quote:
Quote:
renaming the Barbarian skill 'learning' to something more Orcish

Quote:
I agree, but do not have a good idea yet.


Something like 'Tribal Instinct' might work. Using the orcish tribe theme, and as it increases xp gain it also works with 'instinct'.
Intelligence could be renamed to something similar, 'Tribal______' or something else suitable.
You could name Mentoring 'Tribal Teachings' or similar.


I was also thinking you could switch Fire Resistance and Mana Burst to make it suit each shatter more. Just a suggestion, in my opinion Fire resistance makes more sense in shatter destructive (destructive uses alot of fire magic, so shatter destructive, ie anti-destructive should resist fire. light magic won't often use fire damage therefore this skill won't be that useful against light magic).
Therefore Mana burst would have to be moved, and it makes as much sense in Shatter light as it does in shatter destructive, so it wouldn't hurt to move. This is just in my opinion.

You could also swap Banish and Fog Veil for similar reasoning.

Thanks  



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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 09, 2010 08:43 AM

mana burst could make sense in sorcery or occultism too I guess.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Famous Hero
modding wizard
posted February 09, 2010 09:49 AM
Edited by magnomagus at 10:04, 09 Feb 2010.

Quote:
Something like 'Tribal Instinct' might work. Using the orcish tribe theme, and as it increases xp gain it also works with 'instinct'. Intelligence could be renamed to something similar, 'Tribal______' or something else suitable. You could name Mentoring 'Tribal Teachings' or similar.


ideas taken

Quote:
I was also thinking you could switch Fire Resistance and Mana Burst to make it suit each shatter more. Just a suggestion, in my opinion Fire resistance makes more sense in shatter destructive (destructive uses alot of fire magic, so shatter destructive, ie anti-destructive should resist fire. light magic won't often use fire damage therefore this skill won't be that useful against light magic).
Therefore Mana burst would have to be moved, and it makes as much sense in Shatter light as it does in shatter destructive, so it wouldn't hurt to move. This is just in my opinion.


The current idea behind shatter buildups is you can follow two different paths:

1. you can go for corrupt+weaken+detain for full shatter effectiveness.

OR

2. you can go for the middle branch and develop the skill less situational by adding some more generic defensive capabilities.

I understand the logic behind fire resistance in destructive, but the current setup offers better gameplay (and the icons match the color theme ). In destructive, fire resistance has hardly anything new to offer to the effectiveness of the skill. Fire resistance was originally designed as a demon lords skill in the rare situation it would pick light magic (because it makes sense for them). In H5 RPE demon lords are likely to pick shatter light when fighting 'good' factions.
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alcibiades
alcibiades

Hero of Order
Really, Ubisoft?
posted February 09, 2010 12:01 PM

Sorry for the late feedback, I just want to say for all the limitations there is to this project, I'm deeply impressed. I think you have truely made the best that can be made of Heroes 5!


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Cepheus
Cepheus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
posted February 09, 2010 12:57 PM

Completely agreed - I'm too short on time this week to test or help out with reskinning, but you can bet I'll add this to the headlines.

I should let you know that Heroes Kingdoms will introduce new H5-like portraits in Ledroit's style which you can use to replace the current ones, when they're released.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Famous Hero
modding wizard
posted February 09, 2010 03:20 PM

@Alcibiades:

Great you are back! I was already afraid you lost interest completely.

@Cepheus:

Great you are still interested too! if you want to use some creativity on the models you are welcome.

Quote:
I should let you know that Heroes Kingdoms will introduce new H5-like portraits in Ledroit's style which you can use to replace the current ones, when they're released.


Yeah, I already noticed some screenshots, this is going to be another ripoff festival for modders
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alcibiades
alcibiades

Hero of Order
Really, Ubisoft?
posted February 09, 2010 03:44 PM

No, not so much lost interest as lost time. Plus, I must admit, the limitations of what we can actually do with H5 modding somewhat got the better of me, and I didn't really think it would be possible to make a truely good, alround project, and with Heroes 6 being (semi)officially on the stairs, I decided to wait and see what was coming.
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masonjo
masonjo


Hired Hero
posted February 09, 2010 06:38 PM
Edited by masonjo at 18:39, 09 Feb 2010.

Quote:
The current idea behind shatter buildups is you can follow two different paths:

1. you can go for corrupt+weaken+detain for full shatter effectiveness.

OR

2. you can go for the middle branch and develop the skill less situational by adding some more generic defensive capabilities.

I understand the logic behind fire resistance in destructive, but the current setup offers better gameplay (and the icons match the color theme ). In destructive, fire resistance has hardly anything new to offer to the effectiveness of the skill. Fire resistance was originally designed as a demon lords skill in the rare situation it would pick light magic (because it makes sense for them). In H5 RPE demon lords are likely to pick shatter light when fighting 'good' factions.


That makes sense but Light Magic doesn't do Fire damage does it? So fire reistance would be useless against light magic.

Would you not swap Fog Veil and Banish for similar reasons?

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 09, 2010 08:10 PM

word of light has element fire I think. but does it really deal fire damage?

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SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted February 10, 2010 02:49 AM
Edited by SKPRIMUS at 02:53, 10 Feb 2010.

Magnomagus wrote:
Quote:
...I'm curious how your perfect demon lord would look like?...
@Magnomagus: gating is a very powerful racial skill...in the official game, demonlords have low defence/spellpower & cannot learn retribution (attack skill is only 5% per skill level) & have only 2% chance for leadership, light & enlightenment...they are very good reasons (look at the perks)...now those rare & extremely rare perks are easily available together with gating...

[keep in mind that I am no expert & haven't played any normal games against other people & you probably studied the details a lot more than me...so I won't say my perfect demonlord which will differ according to enemy faction, but I will suggest that attack/gating/leadership/enlightenment with the great perks available may feature prominently (unfortunately light is not available)]

also sorceror class can have powerful destructive to go with gating (thank goodness no last stand)

ofc having said that, a demonlord/sorceror can have a hard time at the start of games without gating skill because gating is very useful at the beginning for reducing inferno creature losses

& yeah enlightenment at higher levels can really tilt balance in favour of might heroes since all they need are enough spellpower/knowledge to cast the relevant mass light/dark spells that are independent of spellpower & last for entire battle & everything else can go into atk/def...but then again, it is supposed to be 2% skill for might heroes in normal games but I see too many players are somehow able to get it in normal games...

final note: what is pre-requisite for swarming gate?  do I need basic luck as well? [if you don't know it yet, your mod has increased my interest in normal single-player game, mainly in the knight & demonlord classes]
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Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Famous Hero
modding wizard
posted February 10, 2010 10:16 AM
Edited by magnomagus at 10:34, 10 Feb 2010.

@Alcibiades:

Quote:
No, not so much lost interest as lost time. Plus, I must admit, the limitations of what we can actually do with H5 modding somewhat got the better of me, and I didn't really think it would be possible to make a truely good, alround project, and with Heroes 6 being (semi)officially on the stairs, I decided to wait and see what was coming.


I understand, somehow in the end the limitations also proved to be a positive thing, because the project stayed between some hard borders that protected it from becoming too ambitious or falling into endless discussions about what ideas to implement. It was merely a puzzle that needed to be solved.

@Masonjo:

Quote:
hat makes sense but Light Magic doesn't do Fire damage does it? So fire reistance would be useless against light magic.


I tried to explain in my previous post it is my intention to have a few perks in every shatter that is useful for something else, because that makes these skills less situational and not completely useless in case it happens you do not encounter any significant spellcaster in the chosen magic school. Same story for banish, if I put it in shatter summoning it is hardly useful because in case the enemy casts summon elementals it would be cast with such low power it is hardly worth it to spend the turn of your hero using the banish ability.


@SKPRIMUS:

Quote:
in the official game, demonlords have low defence/spellpower & cannot learn retribution (attack skill is only 5% per skill level)


In H5 RPE retribution gives only 2.5% extra damage per morale, while the attack base skill gives up to 20%, this was to make the skill more equally useful for might and magic classes. Otherwise might classes could eassily get 15%+25% damage while magic classes could only get +15% damage.

Quote:
but I will suggest that attack/gating/leadership/enlightenment with the great perks available may feature prominently (unfortunately light is not available)]


I agree attack & gating are guaranteed picks and enlightenment also in multiplayer, but for the remaining 3 slots I think all of these skills are competing for a place:

-Leadership
-Luck
-Logistics
-War Machines
-Combat
-Dark Magic
-one of the shatters (if your enemy is magic class)

So I wouldn't say there is an optimal build.

Quote:
enlightenment at higher levels can really tilt balance in favour of might heroes since all they need are enough spellpower/knowledge to cast the relevant mass light/dark spells that are independent of spellpower & last for entire battle & everything else can go into atk/def...


This is one of the most important balance issues of TOE and it is solved by using my highly recommended spells mod (H5-RPE-Spells09.h5u)
Read the details for explanation. This mod will make balanced classes and magic classes really more powerful with light and dark! A lot of ideas in it were taken from the russian tournament edition.

Quote:
what is pre-requisite for swarming gate?  do I need basic luck as well?


master of gating, there was no appropriate skill left as third standard perk for gating.

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Festuc
Festuc


Adventuring Hero
Modding
posted February 10, 2010 10:32 AM
Edited by festuc at 10:33, 10 Feb 2010.

I think it could be interesting in make a mod like Xazardous skillwheel but with the HoMM5 roleplaying game skillwheel.
itīs possible,for example it could be something like this(but very very improved,this was only for test if this was possible) :

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Promising
Famous Hero
modding wizard
posted February 10, 2010 10:40 AM

That's an interesting start festuc

I assume you replaced the background texture from xaz skillwheel with a page of the manual and removed the buttons, am I right?


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Festuc
Festuc


Adventuring Hero
Modding
posted February 10, 2010 10:50 AM

Yes you are right,but this is only the begining

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masonjo
masonjo


Hired Hero
posted February 10, 2010 07:07 PM
Edited by masonjo at 20:31, 10 Feb 2010.

Quote:
I tried to explain in my previous post it is my intention to have a few perks in every shatter that is useful for something else, because that makes these skills less situational and not completely useless in case it happens you do not encounter any significant spellcaster in the chosen magic school. Same story for banish, if I put it in shatter summoning it is hardly useful because in case the enemy casts summon elementals it would be cast with such low power it is hardly worth it to spend the turn of your hero using the banish ability.



Ok, I think I understand. Its more for adapting to your opponents moves? So you pick shatter light expecting them to be using light magic, but then they take destructive magic and your shatter light is less useful, so you choose Fire resistance? (The Icons are definitly more themed aswell )

Also a question about the skill trees in general, i'll use the Offence tree as an example: Say you pick Tactics as your first ability, does Offensive Formation have to be your ability in the second branch? (mean obviously you couldn't get Power of Speed), or are you able to pick the ability up and across the tree,Retribution, allowing you to get Power of Speed?

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Crispy_Critter
Crispy_Critter


Hired Hero
posted February 10, 2010 07:38 PM

Magnomagus,

Excellent work on this mod, it's just what H5 needed.

Can anyone tell me why the NCF creatures don't show up in the map editor with this mod downloaded? Also, maps that have NCF creatures in them show up as distorted Yetis when I try to play them. Has this happened to anyone else?

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Duthos
Duthos


Adventuring Hero
posted February 11, 2010 02:54 AM

Seriously kick ass mod, just one request: Allow for/include the custom hero models. I almost always use female heroes, and it is just wierd when they have male avatars. Incidentally, why in the nine lower hells did they not make female hero models in the first place? Or in the expansion? Or the expansion after that?

PS - Welcome me to the site!! ;P
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