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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 17, 2010 01:37 AM |
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Edited by Fauch at 01:43, 17 May 2010.
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It makes perfect sense. We're smart enough to choose, and we're smart enough to punish (once guilt has been determined). People have free will and if they choose to offend, they accept the possibility of being punished. And we should punish in such a way that people will not want to offend again.
actually it makes no sense, because most people who break the law will do their best to not get caught 
I saw a movie tonight, in which a guy kills his wife, confess his crime, and then, thanks to his knowledge of the law and an elaborate plan is declared innocent, while it is very obvious he is the killer.
He spends his time taunting the investigator claiming he won't manage to prove his guiltyness the way the law want it done.
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In other words, it seems to me the debate here is between those who believe that humanity can evolve over a relatively short period of time so that it does not produce individuals who would commit crimes such as rape, and those who believe it can't.
I read a quote from the Dalai Lama saying that if we gave the good education to our children (an education based on love, generosity, altruism, etc...) we could end all wars and conflicts in one generation. and it sounds quite realistic to me. of course, it wouldn't solve anything, as there would still be mentally deficient people, but they aren't the biggest cause of problems in the world.
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chairface
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 17, 2010 10:15 AM |
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this is so crazy it just might work. but I don't know....
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DomFontana
Known Hero
NY Yankees
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posted May 17, 2010 12:06 PM |
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I am opposed to the idea. Totally unacceptable. This is the United States and not the Czech Republic or Poland.
I'm certainly not condoing these heinous crimes, but the offenders should be subject to the same type of criminal penalties that other criminals are.
In some Arab countries, if you're caught stealing, they chop off your hand. We don't do that here because it's considered uncivilized. If you assault somebody with a baseball bat, the punishment is not that you will be hit with a baseball bat.
Somebody robs a bank, they go to jail, and when they get out, they rob another bank. If caught, they get sent back to jail. We don't cut off their legs to lessen the likelihood that they will rob another bank.
So why make an exception for sex offenders? They have to go to jail and therapy. Whether or not they are rehabilitated is irrelevant. The point is that castration is cruel and unusual punishment, which is forbidden by the US Constitution. Castration smacks of barbarianism. What's next? Bring back the rack?
It's also not true that if you violate someone else's rights, that you forfeit your own rights. Also, as others mentioned, many times an innocent man is sent to jail, and if and when the error is discovered, he is set free. Castration is irreversible.
I can understand that the victims and their families would like to have him castrated and I sympathize with them. Perhaps, I would feel the same way. If someone killed one of my loved ones, I would probably want to kill them with my bare hands, but it would be wrong if I did. The point is that we can't let the victims set the law because in their enraged and violated state, they can't be objective about the situation. That's why cooler heads must prevail.
It's not a perfect system, but for the reasons above, among others, I am opposed to castration for sex offenders.
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The King
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 17, 2010 12:18 PM |
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Get a grip, man. There is CHEMICAL castration as well, stopping hormones and stuff. If everything could be solved that elegantly...
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DomFontana
Known Hero
NY Yankees
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posted May 17, 2010 12:23 PM |
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Get a grip, man. There is CHEMICAL castration as well, stopping hormones and stuff. If everything could be solved that elegantly...
Hi. I don't know if you were addressing me, but if so, why would you tell me to get a grip? I'm just expressing my opinion. Isn't that the point of this forum?
I'm opposed to chemical castration, too.
The funny thing is that in the past, it was basically only women who said the man should be castrated, and perhaps the husband or boyfriend of the violated woman. Most men never thought that way.
What happens if a woman is unfaithful? Should she be forced to wear the Scarlet Letter?  Also, there was a recent incident where a girl student from Hofstra University (in Long Island, NY) falsely accused 4 students of raping her. They were arrested and their names and faces were plastered all over TV and the newspapers. Fortunately, someone videotaped the incident on their cell phone and the girl admiited that she lied. It was consensual sex and she asked them for it. So the male students were all released.
Now get this. The girl student was given a suspended sentence and didn't have to do any jail time. How about for her punishment her tongue is cut out, so she can't lie anymore?
I'm being facetious, of course. We don't even punish females who cry false rape and I don't think we should castrate sex offenders, chemically or otherwise.
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The King
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Lure_of_Lilith
Adventuring Hero
2nd Level, Expert Blind
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posted May 17, 2010 12:33 PM |
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Quote:
I read a quote from the Dalai Lama saying that if we gave the good education to our children (an education based on love, generosity, altruism, etc...) we could end all wars and conflicts in one generation. and it sounds quite realistic to me. of course, it wouldn't solve anything, as there would still be mentally deficient people, but they aren't the biggest cause of problems in the world.
That would've worked if our generation today is more embracing towards education. Let's face it, kids today would rather party hard than hit the books, so we pretty much have a dim future ahead. It comes as no surprise at all as Science has already predicted this predicament in the Law of Entropy, a law which states that everything, including our dear Mother Earth and all its inhabitants would start at creation and inevitably end in destruction. The sudden increase in crime rates over the recent decade is a testament to this. Degenaration, decay and disorganization are also linked with the said law. There's nothing we can do to defy the law of Entropy, which to me, is a pretty sad reality.
Of course, the kids alone cannot be blamed for this, there's media and stuff like that which contributes a lot in deterring a child's course of educational action, pursuits, achievements and endeavors. Let's say they would rather involve themselves in Pageants than Science Fairs.
So I believe that by enforcing brute force and dire consequences, we would somehow 'force', in a way, this generation and those to follow away from rape and other heinous crimes. Hey, it's just an opinion.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 17, 2010 12:45 PM |
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Quote:
I'm opposed to chemical castration, too.
And why is that? Because it's so inhuman to take hormon-regulating pills, like a large part of the people does for other reasons? Or because part of the offenders want it as well as a halfway decent way to get rid of a compulsion?
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DomFontana
Known Hero
NY Yankees
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posted May 17, 2010 01:41 PM |
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I'm opposed to chemical castration, too.
And why is that? Because it's so inhuman to take hormon-regulating pills, like a large part of the people does for other reasons? Or because part of the offenders want it as well as a halfway decent way to get rid of a compulsion?
I understand what you and some others are saying. I'm looking at it from a legal standpoint. I consider forced chemical castration to be cruel and unusual punishment in violation of the 8th Amendment of the US Constitution. I view it as a human rights issue.
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The King
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 17, 2010 02:02 PM |
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Okaaaaay.
Too cruel punishment. That's an interesting way to see it, to say the least.
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DomFontana
Known Hero
NY Yankees
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posted May 17, 2010 04:11 PM |
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Okaaaaay.
Too cruel punishment. That's an interesting way to see it, to say the least.
You think so, JollyJoker? Well, that's just how I view it. I respect everybody's opinion.
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The King
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted May 17, 2010 04:18 PM |
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I see no problem at seeing it as cruel.
In my opinion, one of the states major goals should be to solve problems without performing actions which performed by the single individual would be percieved as a violation of the law.
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Living time backwards
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DomFontana
Known Hero
NY Yankees
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posted May 17, 2010 04:32 PM |
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Good point, Pit Lord.
Hey, there's Pit Lord being serious now and not bestowing gifts and vanishing. haha 
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The King
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 17, 2010 05:10 PM |
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Yeah, great point. That means, we either have to make it legal to lock up people or disband all prisons.
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted May 17, 2010 05:34 PM |
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@JJ
No. Unless you think it solves the problem?
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Living time backwards
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 17, 2010 06:41 PM |
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Oh, great as well. Since it doesn't solve the problem we keep it the way it is, until we can solve it, which is never.
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted May 17, 2010 06:53 PM |
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@JJ
Your response implies, to me, that you're replying to a suggested solution, yet what I stated is a goal. There's a big difference.
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Living time backwards
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted May 17, 2010 07:51 PM |
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This is the United States and not the Czech Republic or Poland.
*rolls eyes*
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 17, 2010 07:56 PM |
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Yeah, but I disagree with you. Groups or even the whole of the individuals as a state are different from individuals, which is why the state can and will do things the single individual can and should not do.
The state is supposed to protect the rights of the individual on one hand, but is to make sure that the whole profits as well and to find a balance between the two. That is, the state will always demand and dictate things from the individual for the whole the individual cannot and should not be allowed to do.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted May 17, 2010 08:29 PM |
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Quote:
I am opposed to the idea. Totally unacceptable. This is the United States and not the Czech Republic or Poland.
At least those 2 mentioned european countries (I hope you knew they are in europe...) don't have a death penalty, which is very human in opposit to castration
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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DomFontana
Known Hero
NY Yankees
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posted May 18, 2010 01:45 AM |
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@Baklava: I wasn't implying that the US was better than those countries. Just that the original poster mentioned the Czech Republic and someone mentioned Poland. I was saying that what they do there has no bearing on the US laws and judicial system.
@Angelito: Yes, I know. Members of the European Union are not allowed to use capital punishment because of Article 2 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union. However, the 4 countries with the biggest populations do have capital punishment: US, China, India, and Indonesia. But in New York, the death penalty was found unconstitutional under State law, so right now there is no death penalty in NY. Some groups are trying to have it reinstated, so it is a topic of hot debate.
@JollyJoker: I think what Pit Lord is saying is that it shouldn't be the way you described it. That is, that governments shouldn't be allowed to perform actions that would be considered illegal if an individual performed those same actions. He is not saying that that's the way it is now. He was using it as a suggestion for improvement.
@LOL: Science Fairs? Who goes to Science Fairs? I'm not even sure what a Science Fair is.
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The King
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This thread is pages long: 
