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| Thread: A new, and probably unliked idea for upgrades |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted July 02, 2010 07:18 PM |
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Edited by Jiriki9 at 20:25, 09 Jul 2010.
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A new, and probably unliked idea for upgrades
Just got this idea hanging round in the future necropolises thread:
My idea is, that factions have their units, and the upgrades are representing the influence of (other) factions (giving a lot more upgrades possibly). The HERO (usually NOT the town) gets ability to upgrade his creatures by special buildigns or by visiting other factiosn towns. Every hero begins with the ability to upgrade units to the upgrade of his faction (including creatures of his own faction, so "natural" upgrades tend to be a bit weaker tahn foreign ones - especially on higher tiers). Also, heroes can have at max the ability to upgrade units to two factions other than his own.
I'll just show what I mean by HAven's peasant:
Peasant:
You remember those, don't you?  Know let's see what they can become...
Academy upgrade:
Worker
Inspired by the monumental cities of Academy, the Hero now wants to have some working power to build his lands. Therefore, he trains his peasants to be workers. They loose the taxpayer ability, but they can, on the adventure map, create a tiny bit of ore or wood, if the hero spends a day for it.
Dungeon upgrade:
Bondslave
Having looked at the enslaverish ways of Dungeon, the Hero has gripped his hold of his peasants, decreasing their rights massively. Bondslaves are quite stronger than peasants, especially in initiative, but they have a natural moral penalty of 2 and the ability cowardice.
Fortress upgrade:
Lumberjack
Inspired by the crafty works of the dwarves, the Hero can use his peasants as lumberjacks, equipping them with a massive double-handed axe, with which he deals a lot more damage, and gains the Bash ability, though ti slows him down.
Haven upgrade:
Good old Militia^^
Inferno upgrade:
Cultist
The hero has begun with practicing the Cult of Demonology. Therefore, he can make his Peasants members of this Cult. Cultists are a little stronger than peasants and, mainly, possess the ability that for every slain Cultist, the hero regains 1 mana point.
Necro upgrade:
Desperate Peasants
The Hero, taking a glimpse in the way of the Necromancers, seems suspect to his remaining peasants. They are desperate and gloomy, but they still fight as well as peasants. They may become traitors to their lord (treachery) if the enemy seems overwhelming, but the also are desperately fighting for their lives. When retaliating, desperate Peasants strike back twice.
Stronghold upgrade:
Ruffian
Having learned the wild ways of the Barbarians lets the hero be able to make his peasants the good old Ruffians from H5.
Sylvan upgrade:
Free Peasant
The naturebound and mysterious Elves have caused the hero to think. A result of that is the hero has freed the peasants, which are so happy about it their loyalty is high. They are stronger than peasants or militia and possess the ability "Bravery".
Bowman
Academy upgrade:
Arquebusier
The guns the hero has seen at gremlins...there MUST be a way for his bowmen to use them. And the hero has found it. He has invented a combination of crossbow and gun, the arquebuse, and the Arquebusiers use them quite well. They deal massive damage with it, though it's highly reduced on long range and they are quite slow in use.
Dungeon upgrade:
Guardsman
As the Dungeon Scouts and Assassins, the hero has realized a shooter can be able to defend himself and be of a good use then. He taught his bowmen that strategy and now they may be weaker on range, but they are as good in melee.
Fortress upgrade:
?
Haven upgrade:
Crossbowmen
Yeah again, we know that
Inferno upgrade:
Fire Archers
The hero, inspired by the flaming Inferno towns, has equpped his bowmen with fire arrows, to set the world on fire. Those arrows deal quite an amount of Fire damage additional to the physical one, with a chance to incinerate the target for three rounds, dealing fire damage each.
Necro upgrade:
Venom Archers
The vicious ways of the Necromancers have found a way into the hero's mind. He has equipped his bowmen with poisonous arrows, and given them teh ability to hit the enemy jsut so that the poison gets its use. They deal less damage, but each hit with their arrows inflicts a dangerous poison into the victim, dealing damage every turn.
Stronghold upgrade:
?
Sylvan upgrade:
Longbowman
The hero has been taught by Elvish Hunters, and can pass his new Bowing skills to his loyal subjects. Longbowman are excellent Archers, Who don't care for far rang. On SOME attacks (abput 5% chance) they even manage to perform the excellent Elven Double Shot.
Footman:
ah, good ol' infantry soldiers 
Academy upgrade:
?
Dungeon upgrade:
?
Fortress upgrade:
Shieldbreaker
The Shieldbreaker uses a morning star, forged by Dwarven smiths. With this weapon he Crushes enemy defenses easily, on expense of his own.
Haven upgrade:
Liked the squire?
Inferno upgrade:
?
Necro upgrade:
Executioner
There is only one penalty: Death. The task to bring it to the filthy lies with the executioners, swinging their sword with deadly precision
Stronghold upgrade:
?
Sylvan upgrade:
Gryffin:
We know them 
Academy upgrade:
Silver Griffin
The Griffin is blessed and equipped with a magical armour created by the wizards of the Silver Cities. It has a magical resistance of 50%.
Dungeon upgrade:
Blood Griffin
Fortress upgrade:
Griffin Rider
Dwarven followers of the hero have learned to Ride on Griffins. The bad point is, the griffin can no longer perform a nosedive, since the dwarf on its back would fall off. Instead of Diving, this creature can RESCUE friendly creatures (see the ability creation ability list, rescue ability).
Haven upgrade:
Royal Griffins, Definitely
Inferno upgrade:
Dread Griffin/War Griffin
Necro upgrade:
Death Griffin
Stronghold upgrade:
Battle Griffin
Sylvan upgrade:
Free/Wild Griffin
...no interruption through water in the cellar
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 02, 2010 07:33 PM |
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Well it's an interesting idea, but you end up with 63 creatures per town (okay, you can only get 14 at a time, but still), which would make it damned hard to get them all unique.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted July 03, 2010 02:38 PM |
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...these are upogrades, so I don'T think tehy all need to be unique...it shall be natural that the upgrades of one creature are somehow similar! Of course there will be mroe similarities overall, but I don't find this bad.
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted July 03, 2010 03:28 PM |
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I like the idea!
Though I think maybe some of the suggestions could be a bit more creative, the idea of how it works sounds very good to me. To me it somehow also guarantees uniqueness. In stead of having several town with a level 7 unit as dragons you'd have maybe one or two at most, with this basic unit who then each would have 7 possible upgrades, e.g. the necropolis upgrade could rip its flest apart and turn it into a skeleton for one part, and into a ghost for the other, etc.
So not only does it create uniqueness in that different towns won't have copies of the same creature, but also make each creature very tactical formidable and very interesting.
I think there should also be some kind of penalty to upgrading, so it's not as earlier games where you upgrading was almost always a good idea, unless the difference were really small in which it really wasn't a upgrade, but more of a copy of the same creature.
____________
Living time backwards
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 03, 2010 05:03 PM |
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you forget it would also be very hard to balance
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted July 03, 2010 05:10 PM |
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@ohf: thank you. I, however, never was the "uniqueness"-fan too much. I mean, I don't care if some factions have seemingly very similar creatures, since the point is: there allways is the context of the faction to be seen. F.e. a fury-like creature would mean something completely different for fortress then for inferno, or academy, imo.
@fauch: why? If the differences in stats and the abilities don't get too powerfull it will be ok.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 03, 2010 07:19 PM |
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So, can you get these new creatures in the same town as the base creatures, if you stick your own hero in as the defending hero?
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted July 03, 2010 08:05 PM |
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Great idea,here's my suggestions:
Peasant
Haven: Militia(is good)
Sylvan: Farmer
Academy: Artisant
Inferno: Cultist(perfect)
Necropolis: Undead
Dungeon: Bondslave(ok)
Fortress: Miner
Stronghold: Ruffian(ok)
Bowman
Haven: Crossbowman(perfect)
Sylvan: Longbowman(ok)
Academy: Arquebusier(good)
Fortress: Javeliner
Inferno: Demon Archer
Necropolis: Skeleton Archer
Dungeon: Shadow
Stronghold: Thorwer
Footman
Haven: Squire(good)
Sylvan: Bladesman
Academy: Smasher
Fortress: Axeman
Inferno: Demon
Necropolis: Skeleton Warrior
Dungeon: Guard
Stronghold: Marauder
Mage
Haven: Monk
Sylvan: Druid
Academy: Archmage
Fortress: Rune Pirest
Inferno: Heretic
Necropolis: Lich
Dungeon: Sorceress
Stronghold: Shaman
Cavalry
Haven: Paladin
Sylvan: Pegasi
Academy: Chimera
Fortress: Bear Rider
Inferno: Demoniac
Necropolis: Death Knight
Dungeon: Grim Raptor
Stronghold: Wolf Rider
Legendary Monster
Haven: Angel
Sylvan: Pheonix
Academy: Titan
Fortress: Lava Beast
Inferno: Devil
Necropolis: Spectral Dragon(or Grim reaper)
Dungeon: Black Dragon
Stronghold: Cyclop
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted July 04, 2010 10:00 PM |
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@mattII: You can upgrade anywhere on the adventure map, though it will cost movement points if you do it outside a town. You can upgrade any creature to the creatures of the towns you have the abilities of. So let's say you have a Knight, which has also the abilities to upgrade to Dugneon and to Fortress units...then you can upgrade ANY units in the hero's army to their Haven, their Dungeon or their Fortress upgrades. This includes changing upgraded units into one of those three upgrades.
@lizard: Not sure wether you got me right...the units are still belonging to the faction, which in this case means haven. so it's nto liek the faction would come with the upgrade. I'm not sure if you got that because of your suggestion for tier 7. Also, I think the Necro-upgrade should not necessarily be undead.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 05, 2010 12:02 AM |
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Quote:
@mattII: You can upgrade anywhere on the adventure map, though it will cost movement points if you do it outside a town. You can upgrade any creature to the creatures of the towns you have the abilities of. So let's say you have a Knight, which has also the abilities to upgrade to Dugneon and to Fortress units...then you can upgrade ANY units in the hero's army to their Haven, their Dungeon or their Fortress upgrades. This includes changing upgraded units into one of those three upgrades.
You know, that's going to be a bit too complicated IMO. Just make it so you can upgrade to either the creature's faction or the hero's faction in the town, but only the hero's faction while on the map (and even then only at normal upgrade sites).
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted July 05, 2010 11:13 AM |
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? That would be a complete different system imo.
and I don't think it's so complicated, you see: The hero, and only him, defines to what you can upgrade your creatures. By default, a hero can only upgrade to the upgrades of his faction, and in other towns, and an adventure building, he can learn new upgrade-abilities...I don't feel that's complicated^^
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 05, 2010 11:25 AM |
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Except that you'd end up having to choose between like 4 different upgrades rather than the current 2. Still, since you're not going for uniqueness I suppose it's just a style and morale thing really isn't it?
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted July 05, 2010 11:41 AM |
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Quote:
Except that you'd end up having to choose between like 4 different upgrades rather than the current 2. Still, since you're not going for uniqueness I suppose it's just a style and morale thing really isn't it?
3^^...and of course, 7 on the total, but its more that you choose to have 3 sets of upgrades. It's very much a style thing yes. Not moral, though. The units still belong to their own faction (or that's what I had in mind)!
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 05, 2010 11:52 AM |
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Wait, if they don't change factions then what the heck is the point, you end up with a unit that either looks out of place in its native faction, or doesn't work with the faction it looks like it should.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted July 05, 2010 12:04 PM |
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...the point is you have your basic units and there are 8 possible ways in which it can evolve. One of these you choose.
also, since I get your point, I think the best idea could be that the new unit fits with BOTH factions. That, however, would make the whole moral loss thing almost never coming to effect, since you'll almost everytime change unfitting units into that of your faction.
Another explanation for the style thing: F.e. necro-like upgrades donÄt become undead necessarily. The character of the units just moves into the "character" of the factions and such things.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 05, 2010 12:28 PM |
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Quote:
...the point is you have your basic units and there are 8 possible ways in which it can evolve. One of these you choose.
Except that you said yourself that there's going to be little difference between the various upgrades.
Quote:
also, since I get your point, I think the best idea could be that the new unit fits with BOTH factions. That, however, would make the whole moral loss thing almost never coming to effect, since you'll almost everytime change unfitting units into that of your faction.
Well that depends whether you're keeping the racial skills or not, because if you are then a unit of your faction is still going to be preferred to a unit that only upgrades to your faction. Mind you, it'll look a bit weird in a campaign, recruiting an 'enemy' creature to fight in your army.
Quote:
Another explanation for the style thing: F.e. necro-like upgrades donÄt become undead necessarily. The character of the units just moves into the "character" of the factions and such things.
I'd kind of suspected that.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted July 05, 2010 12:45 PM |
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Quote:
Except that you said yourself that there's going to be little difference between the various upgrades.
I meant the difference from a unit to its upgrades should not be too big, to make it easier to balance. Not sure anymore, though, if it would have the wanted effect.
Well that depends whether you're keeping the racial skills or not, because if you are then a unit of your faction is still going to be preferred to a unit that only upgrades to your faction. Mind you, it'll look a bit weird in a campaign, recruiting an 'enemy' creature to fight in your army.
The letter thing's right, yet I don't think it's too bad. THe thing with the racial is a very good point, thanks! 
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Warlord
Famous Hero
Lord of Image Spam
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posted July 13, 2010 10:05 PM |
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May I contribute some ideas for the units?
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted July 13, 2010 11:05 PM |
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Hell Yeah! I'd like to hear suggestions!
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Warlord
Famous Hero
Lord of Image Spam
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posted July 14, 2010 02:57 AM |
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Quote:
Just got this idea hanging round in the future necropolises thread:
My idea is, that factions have their units, and the upgrades are representing the influence of (other) factions (giving a lot more upgrades possibly). The HERO (usually NOT the town) gets ability to upgrade his creatures by special buildigns or by visiting other factiosn towns. Every hero begins with the ability to upgrade units to the upgrade of his faction (including creatures of his own faction, so "natural" upgrades tend to be a bit weaker tahn foreign ones - especially on higher tiers). Also, heroes can have at max the ability to upgrade units to two factions other than his own.
I'll just show what I mean by HAven's peasant:
Peasant:
You remember those, don't you? Know let's see what they can become...
Academy upgrade:
Worker
Inspired by the monumental cities of Academy, the Hero now wants to have some working power to build his lands. Therefore, he trains his peasants to be workers. They loose the taxpayer ability, but they can, on the adventure map, create a tiny bit of ore or wood, if the hero spends a day for it.
Dungeon upgrade:
Bondslave
Having looked at the enslaverish ways of Dungeon, the Hero has gripped his hold of his peasants, decreasing their rights massively. Bondslaves are quite stronger than peasants, especially in initiative, but they have a natural moral penalty of 2 and the ability cowardice.
Fortress upgrade:
Lumberjack
Inspired by the crafty works of the dwarves, the Hero can use his peasants as lumberjacks, equipping them with a massive double-handed axe, with which he deals a lot more damage, and gains the Bash ability, though ti slows him down.
Haven upgrade:
Good old Militia^^
Inferno upgrade:
Cultist
The hero has begun with practicing the Cult of Demonology. Therefore, he can make his Peasants members of this Cult. Cultists are a little stronger than peasants and, mainly, possess the ability that for every slain Cultist, the hero regains 1 mana point.
Necro upgrade:
Desperate Peasants
The Hero, taking a glimpse in the way of the Necromancers, seems suspect to his remaining peasants. They are desperate and gloomy, but they still fight as well as peasants. They may become traitors to their lord (treachery) if the enemy seems overwhelming, but the also are desperately fighting for their lives. When retaliating, desperate Peasants strike back twice.
Stronghold upgrade:
Ruffian
Having learned the wild ways of the Barbarians lets the hero be able to make his peasants the good old Ruffians from H5.
Sylvan upgrade:
Free Peasant
The naturebound and mysterious Elves have caused the hero to think. A result of that is the hero has freed the peasants, which are so happy about it their loyalty is high. They are stronger than peasants or militia and possess the ability "Bravery".
Bowman
Academy upgrade:
Arquebusier
The guns the hero has seen at gremlins...there MUST be a way for his bowmen to use them. And the hero has found it. He has invented a combination of crossbow and gun, the arquebuse, and the Arquebusiers use them quite well. They deal massive damage with it, though it's highly reduced on long range and they are quite slow in use.
Dungeon upgrade:
Guardsman
As the Dungeon Scouts and Assassins, the hero has realized a shooter can be able to defend himself and be of a good use then. He taught his bowmen that strategy and now they may be weaker on range, but they are as good in melee.
Fortress upgrade:
?
Haven upgrade:
Crossbowmen
Yeah again, we know that
Inferno upgrade:
Fire Archers
The hero, inspired by the flaming Inferno towns, has equpped his bowmen with fire arrows, to set the world on fire. Those arrows deal quite an amount of Fire damage additional to the physical one, with a chance to incinerate the target for three rounds, dealing fire damage each.
Necro upgrade:
Venom Archers
The vicious ways of the Necromancers have found a way into the hero's mind. He has equipped his bowmen with poisonous arrows, and given them teh ability to hit the enemy jsut so that the poison gets its use. They deal less damage, but each hit with their arrows inflicts a dangerous poison into the victim, dealing damage every turn.
Stronghold upgrade:
?
Sylvan upgrade:
Longbowman
The hero has been taught by Elvish Hunters, and can pass his new Bowing skills to his loyal subjects. Longbowman are excellent Archers, Who don't care for far rang. On SOME attacks (abput 5% chance) they even manage to perform the excellent Elven Double Shot.
Footman:
ah, good ol' infantry soldiers
Academy upgrade:
?
Dungeon upgrade:
?
Fortress upgrade:
Shieldbreaker
The Shieldbreaker uses a morning star, forged by Dwarven smiths. With this weapon he Crushes enemy defenses easily, on expense of his own.
Haven upgrade:
Liked the squire?
Inferno upgrade:
?
Necro upgrade:
Executioner
There is only one penalty: Death. The task to bring it to the filthy lies with the executioners, swinging their sword with deadly precision
Stronghold upgrade:
?
Sylvan upgrade:
Gryffin:
We know them
Academy upgrade:
Silver Griffin
The Griffin is blessed and equipped with a magical armour created by the wizards of the Silver Cities. It has a magical resistance of 50%.
Dungeon upgrade:
Blood Griffin
Fortress upgrade:
Griffin Rider
Dwarven followers of the hero have learned to Ride on Griffins. The bad point is, the griffin can no longer perform a nosedive, since the dwarf on its back would fall off. Instead of Diving, this creature can RESCUE friendly creatures (see the ability creation ability list, rescue ability).
Haven upgrade:
Royal Griffins, Definitely
Inferno upgrade:
Dread Griffin/War Griffin
Necro upgrade:
Death Griffin
Stronghold upgrade:
Battle Griffin
Sylvan upgrade:
Free/Wild Griffin
...no interruption through water in the cellar
Fortress Bowman: Runic Archer
Emboldened by the dwarves, your hero has decided to empower his troops similarly. Though now lower in attack, your troops have a higher defense, and the effect of one random rune (no really strong ones) on them.
Stronghold Bowman: Tribal Archer
These warriors are a primitive kind; completely disregarding armor, they lower their defense drastically. However, they have a much higher attack, and have the ability Enraged.
Academy Footman: Enchanted Warrior
These warriors have been enchanted by magic, and are now immune to it. However, the downside it that they are immune not only to curses, but to blessings as well.
Dungeon Upgrade: Chaos Fighter
Impressed by the Dungeon's destructive magic, your hero has decided to adopt the same path. Chaos Fighters make a small fireball (2x2) whenever they attack. However, they lose lots of attack and defense, making them vulnerable.
Inferno Upgrade: Flame Swordsman (name bad?)
Flame Swordsmen are a force to be reckoned with. One per combat, they can make themselves on fire for four turns. During this time, they are dealt 80% of their normal damage on themselves, and all the units 2 tiles adjacent to them get 25% of the Flame Swordsman's damage. This unit cannot be moved during this time against his controller's wishes.
Stronghold Upgrade: Ogre
Mutating the once human warriors into these monstrous beasts gives your army an all-around low morale (-1 morale to all creatures in your army). However, this creature has significantly improved statistics as well as the Enraged ability.
Sylvan Upgrade: Freedom Footman (name bad)
This warrior is freed from all obligations from your command, and is therefore much happier (+2 morale for this creature). He is also a much faster fighter, but has lower defense.
Next Up... Priests, Paladins, and Archangels!
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