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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 22, 2012 08:54 PM |
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No, Christians can kill but they can't murder. Understand?
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 22, 2012 10:26 PM |
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But Elly said
Quote:
Jesus said to love even your enemy and to do good to them, not to kill them.
not "murder" 
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 22, 2012 11:03 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 23:08, 22 Jul 2012.
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That is self-defence, obviously - something that God allows. You know, when your government sends you in a foreign land with benign intentions but the locals start shooting at you for some reason (and here another question arises - do they actually want to kill you or to murder you?  ) - you have to defend yourself. So essentially they are not killed, they are defended against by you.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted September 11, 2012 04:21 PM |
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted September 11, 2012 04:42 PM |
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There's no sense to it, pointless. Why would an atheist require morals in the first place? We are all composed of atoms, killing is a natural process of the world and shouldn't be looked at with even the slightest bit of scorn. The fact that an atheist claims that stoning in any way is immoral is retarded, why would you care about morality? You don't see a lion lying in remorse for killing all those antelopes, or for eating the young of the lioness that weren't his.
Killing is the way of this world, just energy changing, nothing more.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted September 11, 2012 05:14 PM |
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I just can not, you should read morality. Because God was lonely, he had only one perspective. We have been called for experience, etc. Ok first law was do not eat fruit. Later in the time of Moses the law was 600., And now it is only 10 law. It's not hard. Immoral? Just 10 law and have to serve Satan, demon, and change what the Bible prohibited etc. Watching Micah 6:11!
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted September 11, 2012 05:47 PM |
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Quote:
Why would an atheist require morals in the first place? We are all composed of atoms, killing is a natural process of the world and shouldn't be looked at with even the slightest bit of scorn. The fact that an atheist claims that stoning in any way is immoral is retarded, why would you care about morality? You don't see a lion lying in remorse for killing all those antelopes, or for eating the young of the lioness that weren't his.
Nice blatant strawman.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted September 11, 2012 05:50 PM |
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Edited by Seraphim at 18:00, 11 Sep 2012.
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Quote:
Killing is the way of this world, just energy changing, nothing more.
I have the uncanny feeling that you did not even watch the videos? I find it absurd that you would reply to me without even "Reading" what I posted.
Your comment is wrong on many levels simply because you consider morality to be non existent because of differing beliefs or non beliefs.
Firstly, an atheist is a human being. A human being has morals and empathy towards those he/she cares.
No matter who you are, I bet you would not enjoy seeing your parents or children getting killed, unless you are a psycho.
Secondly, let me quote you here
Quote:
We are all composed of atoms, killing is a natural process of the world and shouldn't be looked at with even the slightest bit of scorn.
You are aware that humans are not the same as bricks or rock? We are affected by hormones, enzymes etc. Unlike simple rock, we are complex.
Unlike bacteria,lions or penguins, we are conscious, most of the time at least.
Your feeling is just your own. As a species, we survied because of how social we are. Empathy is a product of that. Groups>> Individuals.
Thirldly...this quote is simply bad..
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The fact that an atheist claims that stoning in any way is immoral is retarded, why would you care about morality?
Guess why? Getting stoned hurts. Getting stoned causes the death of another. Getting stoned causes tremendous pain. I would not want to see somebody being bleeded to death unless said person is a mass murderer...Though this is wrong because we mistreat a human beings entity.
I bet every little child can understand this. Why would not we atheists get this? Because of fear of god? [EDITED]
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Why would an atheist require morals in the first place?
Guess why? We are human beings aswell! Surprize! We dont eat babies!
Humans have to moralize or we would not survive anything natrue would throw at us.
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You don't see a lion lying in remorse for killing all those antelopes, or for eating the young of the lioness that weren't his.
Guess why? A lion is a different species. Not so sociable...
There are species who have underdeveloped moral systems, Apes for example.
Asking animals to be moral is like asking a 12 old month child moralize when using a gun accidently. The sole difference here is that animals are guided by instincts. You can blame them as much as you want.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted September 11, 2012 05:53 PM |
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Seraphim, could you tone down your aggressive rhetoric please?
edit: thanks
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted September 11, 2012 06:26 PM |
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I can't really see anything aggressive in his last post. Tsar's provocation hardly needs a response in the first place but other than that what's wrong?
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted September 11, 2012 06:41 PM |
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He already edited the part that could be considered rather improper and overly aggressive, so you can't see it anymore.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted September 11, 2012 07:29 PM |
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I'm contesting the hypocrisy that is Atheism, id est materialism. You live only one life, and then you die, and then nothing, so really no reason to do, anything, especially engaging is something so absurd as morality, because that would suggest that there's good and bad, which there clearly isn't, nothing can truly ever die, just change. I have great difficulty trying to fathom how morality fits into a materialistic ideology.
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Humans have to moralize or we would not survive anything natrue would throw at us.
I don't see how morality fits into the ability to survive, on the contrary, it's more of a hindrance.
Morality seems without purpose in a materialistic, just like everything based on atheistic ideology. Stumbling in the dark as it were.
Help me out here, what is the point of morals? (each person's differ, often greatly, which gives a sense of individualism, but regardless, still pointless and very much against the materialist ideology as far as I know)
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted September 11, 2012 07:40 PM |
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Atheism has no ideology, is just lack of blind faith in what can not be observed or explained by our normal cognitive capacities. I don't see why fairy tales followers would have higher moral standards than atheists, history is just proving that both sides can be cruel or generous.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted September 11, 2012 07:54 PM |
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Yes, the policy needs to ideology. God does not need ideology.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted September 11, 2012 07:55 PM |
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Quote:
I'm contesting the hypocrisy that is Atheism, id est materialism. You live only one life, and then you die, and then nothing, so really no reason to do, anything, especially engaging is something so absurd as morality, because that would suggest that there's good and bad, which there clearly isn't, nothing can truly ever die, just change. I have great difficulty trying to fathom how morality fits into a materialistic ideology.
One has nothing to do with the other. Your argument assumes people act morally because they want a post-life reward (heaven). Well, I don't know about you but that's not why I act morally. And besides, the development of morality makes perfect sense in an evolutionary biological framework, because morality helps ensure the survival of the species.
Really, your argument is so full of logical fallacies, bad premises and prejudiced assumptions about what atheists believe that it's hardly even worth discussing.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted September 11, 2012 08:00 PM |
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No, believers do not have morals. Philosophy just write us morality. Later in the standard educational materials. It gave us a false picture. When we do not obey enough. So Modify etc
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted September 11, 2012 08:02 PM |
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Why would you suggest that I believe that if one is false, then the other is correct? I don't much fancy the idea of a forced morality, which will then enable you to enter a place where your subjected to a morality that's not yours and the promise that it is beneficial to you.
At the same time, atheism seems just as mysterious, mostly due to the fact that it differs from one person to the other, hell most have never even concerned themselves with thinking about it, just claim to not believe in any higher order and that's that. So forgive me if my post has rubbed you the wrong way.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted September 11, 2012 08:16 PM |
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Tsar, it would be easier for you to understand atheists if you did not see atheism as an organized kind of world view. Negating God does not automatically make you negate everything that you tie to "theist" standards.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted September 11, 2012 08:17 PM |
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I wonder how Tsar would comment the CoC itself:
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The Foundation: Respect.
* An attitude of consideration and appreciation.
* Courteous regard for people's feelings, opinions and actions.
and its meaning for him?
I think morality and respect have deep roots together.
I know you may respect somebody when you fear him.
Is fear the only factor for respect?
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted September 11, 2012 09:02 PM |
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Quote:
You live only one life, and then you die, and then nothing, so really no reason to do, anything, especially engaging is something so absurd as morality, because that would suggest that there's good and bad, which there clearly isn't, nothing can truly ever die, just change. I have great difficulty trying to fathom how morality fits into a materialistic ideology.
I really would not bother to answer you again because I already explained why and how. Those two video links I posted also support my point.
Anyway...
Wrong things in your post:
1.Atheism is not an IDEOLOGY.
2.You are actually referring to Nihilism.
3.Nothing can ever die? You mean disappear? Sure. But biological systems like our body DO stop working.
4.I already explained how morality fits to us humans, even materially speaking. For exxample: A social enviorment creates better accomodation to its members.
Quote:
I don't see how morality fits into the ability to survive, on the contrary, it's more of a hindrance.
Because the mere fact that you would feel sad about the dire situation of your mates,parents,girlfriend,children etc, creates incentive to help them. In essence, morality allows groups to survive, instead of eating each other out.
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