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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted July 14, 2011 07:54 PM |
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Also: nice to have another catholic here!
I hope you're not intending me I'd be classified as a heretic by the catholic church. 
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted July 14, 2011 07:54 PM |
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You gotta love the philosophy of leading a better life through suffering.
Love?
May you or anyone here at HC for that matter never feel the pain I do each day.
Just exploring here; How do you think you deal with it if you did? I 'm not talking minor stuff, I'm talking serious pain in multiple places that abolutely change who you used to be (defined heavily by abilites and desires)... and then forced to discover in many ways , yourself in an "almost" entirely different existance.
Well if you are anything at all like me that cannot be answered until you're there and even then a great investment of time (which can feel the worst part) will be defined by of all aspects of what makes you...you In dealing with the challenge, within your own private lab and think-tank, you will supply your own answer.
Suffering has made me a better man (I still hope true at the end) not because of wanting this(or even believing in this path), but because of a my choices that have had a variety of results that I find preferable over some others that I've made en-route. Bottom line for me now, I cannot deny that I'm more sensitive towards others than I have ever been in my life.
Could I have followed this path without the malady? Maybe. But I would guess a lot more time would be required. Even then I may suspect the clarity of my "focus". Because perspective is important to all fine art.
Am I better man now because of my illness? Absolutely. Everyone around me has so much more value/importance to me these days.
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"Do your own research"
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SkrentyzMienty
Famous Hero
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posted July 14, 2011 07:57 PM |
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I want to raise this scenario ,if somebody who is depressed commits suicide because he/she has PTSD or some other disorder,will he/she go to hell?
Hell doesn't exist.
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Or take euthanasia as an example.If somebody chooses to end his/her life because of unbearable pain,will he/she be cast to hell?
Hell doesn't exist.
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Why does god give diseases?
"god" doesn't exist. Diseases are caused by microscopic pathogenic life forms/ genetic disorders/ or accidents.
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Why did god allow humans to eat "The apple of eden"?
Probably for the same reason he allowed Smeagol to dive for Sauron's Ring of Evil and let Voldemort part his soul.
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Why cant he interfere with human free will?
Because he doesn't exist. "Free will" is easily manipulated and influenced anyway.
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Why did he create diseases in the first place?
Evolution. Besides, taking into consideration how much older those life forms are, they have more right to exist on this planet than humans.
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Why cant he help this world?You see 50,80 and someties 150 people die everyday as by television?
Compare this tiny number to the ridiculous rate of reproduction our vermin kind has.
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Power corrupts.Absolute power corrupts absolutely.Could this be an indication that "God" is corrupt?
Ironic question. None of the world's religions are true, though the people who devised and lead religion are definitely both corrupt and in power, using deluded theists to their advantage and nowadays as a shield against the undisputable counterarguments from science and people with a brain stem.
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If he is not "Human" and we cannot understand him,how does the bible make understanding him possible?
Humans understand nothing, yet still have the tendency to believe nonsense, psychologically they are far from perfect.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 14, 2011 09:35 PM |
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Why did he create diseases in the first place?
Evolution. Besides, taking into consideration how much older those life forms are, they have more right to exist on this planet than humans.
Just to satisfy my curiosity: surely you can explain where this "right to exist on this planet" comes from, if there's anyone or anything granting it, or if anyone guards it, and of course what "more" (or less) right means exactly and on what this assessment is grounded?
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted July 14, 2011 09:44 PM |
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I agree - it's rather funny to hear someone who allegedly believes in a completely naturalistic worldview to speak of a "relative right of existence".
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SkrentyzMienty
Famous Hero
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posted July 14, 2011 09:56 PM |
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I apologise, my bad, I phrased myself wrongly(?) yet again. What I was trying to convey through this, was defense on behalf of such microorganisms; their "pathogenic" reputation and classification, is a matter of perspective, human perspective in this case. In other words, people in general are, in my eyes, just as pathogenic and parasitizing on the planet and other life forms as the popular aggressive bacteria/viruses and fungi.
Sorry, it's just that I tried to shape what I posted in theist terms, arguing that even if one believes in god, why question "why he created diseases", as they have been there for such a long time prior to humans. Similarily it is hypocrisy to ask that while failing to see what a disease the human race is, hence it would only be fair if a theist questioning the purpose of pathogenic microorganisms simultaneously questioned the point of "god creating humans" in the first place.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 14, 2011 09:59 PM |
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parasitizing on the planet
Hey mate! Don't forget that for there to be a parasite, there has to be a living organism. And "the planet" is as alive/sentient as a stone boulder. So - it can't be really put that way
Cheers!
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted July 14, 2011 10:01 PM |
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while failing to see what a disease the human race is
Oh, you're one of THOSE monotonous radicals.
Cheers!
EDIT: to be clear: you believe yourself to be a parasite?
____________
If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted July 14, 2011 10:08 PM |
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I apologise, my bad, I phrased myself wrongly(?) yet again. What I was trying to convey through this, was defense on behalf of such microorganisms; their "pathogenic" reputation and classification, is a matter of perspective, human perspective in this case. In other words, people in general are, in my eyes, just as pathogenic and parasitizing on the planet and other life forms as the popular aggressive bacteria/viruses and fungi.
Well of course they are. Every living creature, in some way, is just trying to survive, and that always involves killing or harming something else - either actively or passively.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 14, 2011 10:15 PM |
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Why there has to be one more thread where everybody acts (and in many cases think) that religion = Christianity and where Elodin explains the blaspheming world what the Christianity is and is not? 
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SkrentyzMienty
Famous Hero
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posted July 14, 2011 10:20 PM |
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Hey mate! Don't forget that for there to be a parasite, there has to be a living organism. And "the planet" is as alive/sentient as a stone boulder. So - it can't be really put that way
Cheers!
Please, you're not a computer program with artificial intelligence  I hope that inspite of being excessively picky, you understood that I was referring to Earth's resources and inhabiting flora & fauna.
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Oh, you're one of THOSE monotonous radicals.
Cheers!
EDIT: to be clear: you believe yourself to be a parasite?
You're calling me a radical why, exactly?
And yes I do, logically as I am a human being, meaning my existence contributes to wasting resources and general litter production, pollution etc. Now I know that in order for there to be no waste and pollution humanity would have to go back to Stone Age, therefore I know this is quite a compulsory evil. The reason I DO refer to MOST humans as more parasitic than they could be if they wanted, is slaughtering animals for meat consumption and other methods of their exploition, which COULD EASILY be avoided if everyone adapted a vegetarian diet.
...
...inhale deeply
...and I beg you don't reply without an "argument" stronger than "errrrrrr but meat tastes so goooood!"... you can do better than that I hope.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted July 14, 2011 10:22 PM |
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Edited by Corribus at 22:25, 14 Jul 2011.
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And yes I do, logically as I am a human being, meaning my existence contributes to wasting resources and general litter production, pollution etc.
I wonder, Skrentyz, if you would care to define "wasting" and explain why you think it is "bad".
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted July 14, 2011 10:57 PM |
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I'm calling you a radical, because you swoop in and loudly trumpet your monotonous views on religion in a gaming forum and only radicals come and voice their opinions rather loudly and monotously, even though they may be rather irrelevant in the thread. If you say "there is no god" fourteen times in a thread that was aimed at religious people, then you're not really a sensible person in this matter, with all due respect and in my humble opinion, sir.
Also, I'm not here to discuss vegetarianism. Suffice it to say, that if you want an answer, then I'll say that I need to consume life to stay alive and aren't plants higher forms of life than animals, skrzenty? Have you ever seen a plant savage another plant and then eat it?
Even though, plants eat dead plants on a regular basis...
Though, really, I have no moral obligation towards animals and I don't consider one species better than another, except mine, because it is mine and we also happen to create the nicest art and the most interesting specimens.
Though, I know that you and I will never see eye to eye, because I think of life in terms of my own perspective and what I want. I have flights of fancy where I shake my fist at God and think of how the world should be, but even then it's usually how I think they should be according to my white, middle class, heterosexual point of view.
You talk about waste and how the human race is parasitic, but I think the industrialised and intellectual human race has achieved amazing things, like the universal spread of information and ideas.
Sure, we did a pretty crap job at times, but currently we have what? 7 billion of our species on the planet? Most of them live so much better than they did 500 years ago. Even the super rich of that time couldn't even dream of equaling the life quality of today's working class. There is little to no war on this earth and we exchange services for any food you want and if you're a little careful you can read, sleep and clothe yourself with absolute minimum wage. Do you have any idea how awesome that is?
If you think on a global level isn't the well-being of your species one of the nobler goals and purposes, skrzenty? Though, since you think they're parasites, then maybe you can just look in disgust at the world and be happy with that, I guess.
EDIT: I pay you respect, skrzenty, and I expect something similar from you. I also expect you to not drag this out to a vegetarian debate, because that's not really a relevant topic.
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted July 14, 2011 11:32 PM |
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How do religiious people explain dinosaurs,that about 5 major extinction events occured in the past and that the Human is a joke of creation in comparioson to dinosaurs.
160 million years dinosaures reigned this planet.The modern human dates back to 200k years before, 0.2 milions of years.
This can be explained using ancient language translation.
The word that is "Days" in the bible for when God created the universe and everything in it actually signifies (and this is in the original language mind you) "An indeterminate amount of time" or "An unknown amount of time", just as the ancient leaders of the church "Accidentally" mistranslated the word for "Ten" in the Sampson tale with the word "One hundred", so they replaced the word for "Indeterminate/ unknown amount of time" with "Day", so as to make thier followers more loyal.
Also, bible never says that there was no life outside of Eden, or how long Adam and Eve were in there.
My pocket full of change.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted July 15, 2011 12:15 AM |
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Isn't the more interesting question this:
If somehow the world with all its flaws is a perfect creation - then why is the afterlife supposed to be devoid of it? If happiness is not possible without sadness - then why is sadness supposed to be absent in the afterlife?
Sorry JJ, missed this very good question of yours.
Honestly I wonder the same thing. I have the very same logic. To me, this new existance is,(if it turns out to be true) I'm not going to be able to understand now.
It sounds like I'm taking a cheap way out but I'm not. Sort of like the following:
I am a Blackfoot Indian (partly true). The year is 1450 and I stand on the Eastern shore of the future U.S. Then someone tells me that I will be living in 1890 France soon. Is there anyway for me to know what is meant within my limited means of (1450 native dialect and understanding) what I am being told? I don't think so. No words for Iron, Eiffel Tower and 440 years of scads more. It would be the moon-shot beyond belief. It's pretty much have to go there to discover. Only time and exposure will work. Well that is... once I've changed my buckskins.
Remember the written record of when the Cortez exp. first saw Tenochtitlan? It was described as walking into a dream. If Heaven is true, <imo> it would dwarf that also far beyond my current comprehension.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 15, 2011 12:24 AM |
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The word that is "Days" in the bible for when God created the universe and everything in it actually signifies (and this is in the original language mind you) "An indeterminate amount of time" or "An unknown amount of time", just as the ancient leaders of the church "Accidentally" mistranslated the word for "Ten" in the Sampson tale with the word "One hundred", so they replaced the word for "Indeterminate/ unknown amount of time" with "Day", so as to make thier followers more loyal.
I am sorry, but stuff like this is just crap and exactly one of the reasons why I dislike religion so much.
You can't even stand up for what your holy book says and have to adapt it to modern scientific discoveries.
It is ridiculous and this is exactly the reason you can't have a debate with extremist religious people about science. Because they tend to always make up stuff like this in order to make it fit their religion. I think its hilarious actually.
And stuff like this will NEVER go away.
When we discover what happens after death and exactly how the universe was creaed, people will use stupid stuff like this again. I just hope that by that time, the abrahamic religions are dead.
I know that it's hard to not be religious in countries where religion still has a huge influence on people, but atleast actually try to believe what your religion says?
I hope i'm not sounding to offensive and I think that it must be allowed to critize religions and their worshippers in times like this when religion has a major role in the current conflicts in the world etc.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 15, 2011 12:36 AM |
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Suffering has made me a better man
"If people got hit on the head by a baseball bat every week, pretty soon they would invent reasons why getting hit on the head with a baseball bat was a good thing. But if you took someone who wasn't being hit on the head with a baseball bat, and you asked them if they wanted it, they would say no." - Eliezer Yudkowsky.
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Eccentric Opinion
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted July 15, 2011 12:41 AM |
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@ Xerox: I'm sorry for admitting that the Catholic church changed passages and words in the bible  ? Truly, are you ranting at me, or at the church, or what?
Also, if you are ranting at me, what in the name of the universe gave you the idea that I'm an extremist religious nutter?
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted July 15, 2011 12:47 AM |
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I'm not sure this can be said about pleasure and pain.
I cannot say that it can be said for everyone. I hope that I have been always careful enough to clearly state that this is my belief. Within me there is the same contrast in good and evil...also within most all aspects of life.
Love and Hate, happy Sad, Tall short. "One helps define the other"
<imo> My human nature is very undesirable to "me" at times. I will make no judgment on how another soul determines these things. I can only rest "somewhat" on what is logical or reasonable to me, through my own personal experiences and admittedly filtered through my value system.
To say this another way, I become tolerant (in-tolerant I suppose) to say...love. At some point I return to the lesson. It seems to me, always striving...never arriving. Btw, that's a good thing to me. I'm not at final defeat...I'm yet growing.
I think all of this is linked in like fashion. Clearly anyone who disagrees will my grand-view, will find no logic nor reason in anything I share.
THe problem is that neither of them is separable.You can never feel only bad or only good,nothing is purely good or purely bad,at least for me.
Therefore what your wrote for good and evil seems kinda vague to me.
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"Science is not fun without cyanide"
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted July 15, 2011 12:50 AM |
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I hope i'm not sounding to offensive and I think that it must be allowed to critize religions and their worshippers
Not to me But honestly you "read" very intolerant of others holding different values than yourself. Isn't that what you despise about the holier-than-thou-attitudes of destructive-religious-nutz?
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in times like this when religion has a major role in the current conflicts in the world etc.
Set aside the very extreme of one faith what's left? Even within that group often what comes out in interviews is much more; the age-old "colonialism or imperialism" of the last couple of centuries in what is seen as regional interference and a continuance of western greed.
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