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Heroes Community > Turban Tribunal > Thread: About a thing I'm tired of seeing
Thread: About a thing I'm tired of seeing This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Nocturnal
Nocturnal


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 04, 2011 09:22 PM

About a thing I'm tired of seeing

First of all, I know in Code Of Conduct it says all dicrimination about sexual orientation is not permitted. So I request the users, whatever their orientation is, to sincerely try to see my point and read this post to its end.

When you say about a thing you dislike "this is cheap", the word "cheap" there is a negative adjective. I think everyone can see this pretty clearly. So the same goes when you say about a thing you dislike, (I mark, not about a thing you dislike sexually but say, about a tactic in a game and about an ability in a game you dislike in game related treads, or about a country's political issue in OS, etc.) yes, when you say "that's so gay", the "gay" word there stands for a negative adjective that should be some other adjective essentially. I am again underlining: the dislike is not about any sexual part of the thing.

This is a clear discriminative act against gay people.

I know by experience that if you are not in the group of people who are being insulted, there is a limit to your understanding the problems of that insulted group. So I have no other option but only to give a more specific example:

One person says about a RTS war game, "In order to beat them, you should hide for some minutes and then strike behind their back" and the other replies " no, man. this is such a gay thing to do". This IS the kind of thing I'm talking about.

One person says "I like wrestling" and the other replies "wrestling is so gay". This is NOT the kind of thing I'm talking about because this is actually talking about a sexual aspect.

I hope I have made it clear. And as a gay member of the community I would be so comfortable to not see this kind of language in the community.

Thanks.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted August 04, 2011 09:29 PM

And ban also "stop being a pussy", "Blizzard's feminine nature" because they offend the "other" side.

Ah, the world...
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wog_edn
wog_edn

Promising

The Nothingness
posted August 04, 2011 09:34 PM

Well the original definition of the word "Gay" was "carefree", "happy", or "bright and showy".

Which means you cannot really complain as you cannot be 100% certain what the poster meant
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted August 04, 2011 09:36 PM

Quote:
strike behind their back" and the other replies " no, man. this is such a gay thing to do".


I don't see what is wrong here, it makes sense.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted August 04, 2011 09:36 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 21:36, 04 Aug 2011.

It seems like Elodin's "Christianity is discriminated", actually.

Dear Nocturnal,

It's not for us to change what people associate with a word. Even if they do associate something pejorative, the word, not being used as an insult or derogatory mark, will not be censored in any way. If we however notice anyone attacking your sexual orientation here directly or indirectly, we will intervene without any hesitation.

Hope that clears things up.

Cheers.

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted August 04, 2011 09:43 PM
Edited by Corribus at 21:45, 04 Aug 2011.

While the recent pejorative usage of this term had its origins as a connection to the term for (male) homosexuality, I do believe it has sort of taken on a meaning of its own that has no direct sexual connotations at all.   It's also worth noting that gay as a euphemism for a homosexual derived from an older usage of the term gay to refer to loose sexual conduct (e.g., prostitution, lechery, womanizing, etc.), which of course derived from the original usage of the term meaning "happy".  Ironic that a term that originally stood for something joyous or happy has evolved to mean something stupid or unfortunate, but there you have it.

Point is that while "gay" could be taken as insulting, the connection between the way it is used in many contexts today and homosexuality is purely historical.  My feeling is that most people who describe something stupid as "gay" mean no offense to homosexuals, or are making any conscious effort to compare said stupid thing to their feelings about homosexuality.  I describe things as "gay" from time to time with no ill intent, although admittedly I do this accidentally because I'm aware that my intent will usually be misinterpreted by those who are sensitive to this kind of thing.

In any case, I don't really think blanket censoring of the term is required.  Needless to say, if I see people using "gay" in an obviously insulting way in the forum I moderate, I will take action against the person using it in this way.  But to be quite honest it's such an ingrained part of modern slang that I doubt many people even think twice about it.  If it's the worst kind of discrimination or bigoted attitude you have to deal with in your life, consider yourself lucky.

My two cents.

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Nocturnal
Nocturnal


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 04, 2011 09:43 PM
Edited by Nocturnal at 21:53, 04 Aug 2011.

Quote:
It seems like Elodin's "Christianity is discriminated", actually.

Dear Nocturnal,

It's not for us to change what people associate with a word. Even if they do associate something pejorative, the word, not being used as an insult or derogatory mark, will not be censored in any way. If we however notice anyone attacking your sexual orientation here directly or indirectly, we will intervene without any hesitation.

Hope that clears things up.

Cheers.


I haven't read Elodin's post.

So, if I said "that is so Afro" for a thing I would normally say "this is so cheap", noone would say anything to me? Seriously?

(Salamandre, please don't do that. I don't like those kind of jokes.)

Quote:
But to be quite honest it's such an ingrained part of modern slang that I doubt many people even think twice about it.  If it's the worst kind of discrimination or bigoted attitude you have to deal with in your life, consider yourself lucky.


Of course not. I'm living in an Islamic country. But you have to start somewhere. If this place was Youtube, I would not go mad like this, but I actually like this community. And if we have to begin from somewhere to stop discrimination of any kind, soft or hard, the places we like to be are good starting points.
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Adrius
Adrius


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
posted August 04, 2011 09:48 PM

I'd laugh with ya
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted August 04, 2011 09:54 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 21:57, 04 Aug 2011.

Nocturnal,

My answer is pretty much the same thing we were telling Elodin.

It's okay not to like homosexuality, Christianity, atheism, leftists, rightists, Harry Potter, obesity and anything else here. Also, making jokes about those is permitted, as long as they don't get offensive or demeaning. What's NOT allowed is personal attacks, or demeaning/insulting somebody based on his religion or orientation. Saying "that's gay" doesn't attack you in any way personally, so there's no reason for us to do anything about it. If you feel bad that people use something you associate yourself with as a joke, we can't really help: otherwise, we'd have to start penalizing every person who said "I don't like religion" or "religion is stupid" because some religious people took offense, and that would be weird, don't you think?

In other words: we won't apply censorship because of possible "hurt feelings". Sorry. if you however feel someone is making fun of you because you're a homosexual, please let us know and we'll act accordingly.

My advice: Ignore what they say in teh internets. Have some distance, and laugh about it more. You'll feel much better around people who don't exactly have positive feelings towards things important in your life.

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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted August 04, 2011 09:58 PM

I would not take offense, Nocturnal, to an individual who uses the term "gay" to describe an event in a video game (for example).  If anything, you should pity them for lacking creativity and articulation.
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Nocturnal
Nocturnal


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 04, 2011 10:01 PM

Quote:
otherwise, we'd have to start penalizing every person who said "I don't like religion" or "religion is stupid" because religious people took offense, and that would be weird, don't you think?


I feel for you. I really do understand. My demand is not to penalise things. But only to show that this is not nice. That's all.

Yesterday there was a tread for a "Hate List" and actually religion is at the first place for me. But I didn't write it. I tought that there are many religious people here, and I would do a rude thing and maybe caused some disturbance if I have written that. Is this kind of a little sensitivity so much to expect? That's what I'm asking sincerely, it's not a rhetorical question.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted August 04, 2011 10:01 PM
Edited by Elvin at 22:02, 04 Aug 2011.

Quote:
While the recent pejorative usage of this term had its origins as a connection to the term for (male) homosexuality, I do believe it has sort of taken on a meaning of its own that has no direct sexual connotations at all.

+1

Did it even cross your mind that I used the expression to offend you or anyone else? The wrestling/bjj = gay is a long running joke for a while now When there is clearly no offensive intent why would it bother you?
I mean..



Would you find this offensive? I'd find it hilarious even if I was gay.
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Nocturnal
Nocturnal


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 04, 2011 10:04 PM
Edited by Nocturnal at 22:13, 04 Aug 2011.

Elvin you misunderstood. I have used your case as a counter-example. Quote from my original post "One person says "I like wrestling" and the other replies "wrestling is so gay". This is NOT the kind of thing I'm talking about because this is actually talking about a sexual aspect."

That goes for that picture. There is nothing offensive in that.

I don't find the sexual aspect offensive. I find some films or games too hetero and dislike them.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted August 04, 2011 10:05 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 22:06, 04 Aug 2011.

how about this? I laughed about this myself, and I'm very gay-friendly person (also one of my best friends is gay)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpceOOk2zog

do you find that offensive, or funny?

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Nocturnal
Nocturnal


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 04, 2011 10:12 PM
Edited by Nocturnal at 22:14, 04 Aug 2011.

Quote:
how about this? I laughed about this myself, and I'm very gay-friendly person (also one of my best friends is gay)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpceOOk2zog

do you find that offensive, or funny?


Of course that is gay and calling it gay is not the thing I'm talking about. Calling this gay is about the sexual aspect of the event. Like here the man are nealy making love on the floor

That's why I gave that examples in the original post. I'm talking about when the word is used in a non-sexual referent way. Like again in the example, the person doesn't say "coward" but says "gay" in its place.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted August 04, 2011 10:16 PM

Maybe start treating this word similar to how you treat the word "smart". You know, it may mean someone is intelligent, or that someone is dumb depending on how much irony is behind it. Many English words have multiple meanings, I don't think you should put too much care that the term "gay" means - beside homosexual - happy, carefree, or (what you seem to dislike) lame. In my language for instance there's no such case as the number of same-meaning words is drastically lower and the spectrum of their meanings is much wider.

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted August 04, 2011 10:18 PM

Corribus's Rule For Life #7: Learn to laugh at yourself from time to time.  After all, you can't sit back and relax with a pole up your ass.
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Nocturnal
Nocturnal


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 04, 2011 10:22 PM

OK, tnx. At least I have made my point. That's enough for me. I saw how you feel and that is nice.
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Adrius
Adrius


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
posted August 04, 2011 10:39 PM
Edited by Adrius at 22:39, 04 Aug 2011.

Quote:
how about this? I laughed about this myself, and I'm very gay-friendly person (also one of my best friends is gay)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpceOOk2zog

do you find that offensive, or funny?

HAHAHAHAHAHA...! Man that's awesome!
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Smithey
Smithey


Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
posted August 04, 2011 10:41 PM

When someone says "thats so gay", he/she is using a slang which is meant to mock other persons manhood... in a same manner slang such as I love obama "no homo" is used....

In our society gay men such as yourself are indeed viewed as less manly... It is the truth Nocturnal, there is no denying it...

There are at least some homophobic members here, maybe there are a few still in the closet but most of us have no problems with gay people, I cant recall using the said term on the forum but you cant really ask people to stop using that... matter of fact even if they did stop doing so how is that solving any of the issues you will certainly encounter in RL ?

If anybody insults you on a personal level based on your sexual preferences I promise you I will be the first to flame the living crap out of him/her but you need to toughen up, this is just an internet forum and if you cant handle such things here, in RL you will have larger issues...
Certain things are what they are and untill society changes on a larger scale you just need to find a way to deal with it as it really isnt an insult to gay people even though I see how it might look like one in your eyes....


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