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| Thread: Rise of xenophobia in Europe |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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xerox
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posted August 11, 2011 11:34 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 23:39, 11 Aug 2011.
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And what does his immigrant status have to do with that? If he was a Swedish ignorant kid, drunkard or bully, it'd be all ok?
When you are in the ninth grade here you are 15-16 years old. By then, you should know that our king has no real power and pretty much just there for german tourism. 
And I have never seen a drunkard in my school. But the point was that due to segregation, many children of segregated parents do not know a lot about how the society works either and on average, have worse grades in school etc.
And that is something I have noticed A LOT of times. And the statistics tell the same tale.
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Back to the "ghettos".
First of,in Sweden they were originally normal neighbourhoods that were created by a project called "The Million Programme" (because they wanted to make one million new residences). They were not created for the purpose of becoming ghettos.
It was when the mass immigrations started and the state made all immigrants live there. Over time, they turned into enclaves where swedes became a minority. This caused segregation which led to unemployment and high crime rates. And of course that gave these areas a bad reputation and nobody wants to walk through those areas anymore.
It is now to late for such a law.
But IF there had been a law, I am sure that those areas would have had a MUCH better reputation because now, nobody wants to go there.
And yeah, it would be extremly hard and controversial to break up an ghetto. You can't force swedes to move in to those areas, and you can't force immigrants out of them. Also where exactly would these immigrants move? You can't force people out of their homes and you would basically have to relocate half of the city. It is simply to late, the "ghettos" already exist. What now needs to be done is to stop the mass immigration and start integrating the people that already live there.
The Million Programme: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million_Programme
It is kinda interesting that the swedish version does not even contain the "critiscm" section which is the most relevant here.
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Tsar-Ivor
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posted August 11, 2011 11:45 PM |
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Parhaps if people took extra time and effort to intergrate people properly into society and culture, there wouldn't be any ghettos, you don't see swedes building themselves ghettos, NO! Why is that? Erm because they're swedes? Bingo  .
(this of-course doesn't mean the abandoment of said persons native culture, just a healthy adjustment into the culture of the country they moved to). Simples 
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xerox
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posted August 11, 2011 11:58 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 23:59, 11 Aug 2011.
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Well, swedes were the original inhabitants of those areas before they became ghettos. And also there are swedish people still living in them, mostly young people (because those apartments are cheap).
It can be that way again if the politicans stop acting like kindergarten children and stop ignoring these problems.
I will be able to vote and become politically active during the next election 2014, and I will focus on integration then (since the word assimilation is associated with the Zerg Swarm here and is way to racist).
Actually I kinda got to vote the last election too because I get to choose what my mum votes on.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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del_diablo
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posted August 12, 2011 12:06 AM |
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Quote:
Parhaps if people took extra time and effort to intergrate people properly into society and culture, there wouldn't be any ghettos, you don't see swedes building themselves ghettos, NO! Why is that? Erm because they're swedes? Bingo .
You can't have a ghetto until there is a majority of "foreigners that is "located together in 1 place". And ignoring slim sprints to the side of redefining what a place is....
I am grasping straws here, because i don't see what you are getting at.
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Salamandre
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posted August 12, 2011 12:22 AM |
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They want to live together. They don't want to mix, to marry with natives or work with them. What you call a ghetto is plainly their choice, at least here where I live. Last time I was in flirt with a muslim sweet girl, her two Hulk of brothers warned me to stop or die, and not very politely. I got the message, now flirting with goats and safe
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Tsar-Ivor
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posted August 12, 2011 02:24 AM |
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I'm saying that ghetto's are obviously formed because, the people who live in them (were talking about immigrants so I'm assuming immigrants reside in these 'ghettos'), need to be taught what it is to be part of that culture, otherwise they form their own little communities and be a nuisance to the 'natives'.
And Salamandre: I meant that if they don't want to be part of swedish culture and society, then they obviously don't belong there and they should be removed...(btw I'm using sweden as an example ) Also...Lol
(as I said before but I'll repeat, this does not mean that they must forfeit their own culture completely, just enough so that it does not have negative effect)
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xerox
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posted August 12, 2011 03:06 AM |
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I don't want to force down culture on people. I won't force somalis to celebrate midsummer, though I think it is a positive thing to spread culture. I never really cared about our traditions etc myself. Most of our holidays are just excuses for people to get drunk.
But I do expect people who are lucky enough to come here to respect the laws we have and to contribute to the society.
So I do not demand a lot, just basic stuff that you would expect from people who move into your country.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Tsar-Ivor
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posted August 12, 2011 03:48 AM |
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I'm glad we agree.
Also I think immigration should be regulated so that there's a controllable amount of people coming into a country, because that's what you want to have, control. But IMHO xenobphobia could be rectified by my previous point (if it can be, that is, some people are plain stubborn and ignorant).
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Fauch
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posted August 12, 2011 05:25 PM |
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Last time I was in flirt with a muslim sweet girl, her two Hulk of brothers warned me to stop or die, and not very politely. I got the message, now flirting with goats and safe
from what I hear sometimes, muslims aren't known for being tolerant. my friend who is muslim and lives in a muslim community also suffers from it. I'm not sure what they learnt from their religion, but I guess they didn't understand what it was about 
though, we don't hear about untolerant people from other religions? does it mean the problem is much worse with islam??
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Darkshadow
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posted August 12, 2011 05:27 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Last time I was in flirt with a muslim sweet girl, her two Hulk of brothers warned me to stop or die, and not very politely. I got the message, now flirting with goats and safe
from what I hear sometimes, muslims aren't known for being tolerant. my friend who is muslim and lives in a muslim community also suffers from it. I'm not sure what they learnt from their religion, but I guess they didn't understand what it was about
though, we don't hear about untolerant people from other religions? does it mean the problem is much worse with islam??
The Quran specifically prohibits Muslim women (and only women) marrying non muslim men.
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mvassilev
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posted August 12, 2011 05:32 PM |
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though, we don't hear about untolerant people from other religions?
We don't? We hear about Christian religious fundies in the US all the time.
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Salamandre
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posted August 12, 2011 05:45 PM |
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The Quran specifically prohibits Muslim women (and only women) marrying non muslim men.
I think this is closing the debate. There can not be assimilation under such conditions.
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Fauch
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posted August 12, 2011 05:47 PM |
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in france we only hear about muslims.
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The Quran specifically prohibits Muslim women (and only women) marrying non muslim men.
it is often said that muslims women are nothing more than the property of their husbands. though, I don't know to what extent it is true.
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Salamandre
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posted August 12, 2011 05:52 PM |
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Magister180888
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posted August 12, 2011 07:47 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
The Quran specifically prohibits Muslim women (and only women) marrying non muslim men.
I think this is closing the debate. There can not be assimilation under such conditions.
No, it doesn't, the man or the woman (if she marries a muslim man) just have to become muslim. That's why this religion is growing in western Europe I think also.
I don't know if it's only women who can only marry muslims. I thought that any muslims (male or female) could only marry an other muslim. Only people of the same religion can marry. But that happened with christians also in the past.
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Darkshadow
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posted August 12, 2011 07:51 PM |
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No, it doesn't, the man or the woman (if she marries a muslim man) just have to become muslim.
So, the native population has to convert to the ways of the immigrants?!
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Salamandre
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posted August 12, 2011 08:03 PM |
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No, it doesn't, the man or the woman (if she marries a muslim man) just have to become muslim.
Then how it doesn't? It allows or not to marry to a non muslim? (We don't talk about what MAY happen after)
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del_diablo
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posted August 12, 2011 10:42 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
No, it doesn't, the man or the woman (if she marries a muslim man) just have to become muslim.
Then how it doesn't? It allows or not to marry to a non muslim? (We don't talk about what MAY happen after)
That depends on what part of Islam you are a part of.
The rule of thumb is that if you converted to Islam, you can't leave, and neither should your spouse be a heathen either.
However, that is more or less invalid if you are born into Islam, because you never converted to it.
And then there is the entire issue of what imans to listen to, what sect your family is a part of, and more.
The second rule of thumb is: Any securlar muslim don't care.
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wog_edn
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posted August 12, 2011 11:37 PM |
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Quote:
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No, it doesn't, the man or the woman (if she marries a muslim man) just have to become muslim.
Then how it doesn't? It allows or not to marry to a non muslim? (We don't talk about what MAY happen after)
My cousin (from Germany) married a muslim girl while he was not. He simply had to convert (right word) into a muslim and take a muslim name.
They also had alcohol in their wedding though, so I don't think they were very strict.
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Fauch
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posted August 12, 2011 11:56 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 00:00, 13 Aug 2011.
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and if both partners are from a different religion, and both religions require a conversion?
I think it's quite a cheap way to extend the influence of the religion. you married the other person, not his / her religion...
there you see the flaws with religions, when they claim to make people better but can't admit they might be wrong. (why would you be forced to convert yourself otherwise?)
I don't know about each of you, but in my book, people who think they can't be wrong are most likely the wrongest of all.
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