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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: HOMM IV Expansion Predictions and Expectation
Thread: HOMM IV Expansion Predictions and Expectation This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
ShadowLord
ShadowLord


Promising
Famous Hero
of Dope
posted February 21, 2002 09:40 PM

HOMM IV Expansion Predictions and Expectation

Well since we're close to getting our hands on (I'm sure, I am) the long awaited Heroes IV, what are your predictions and expectations for the expansion pack! Here's mine:

Predictions and Expectations:

1. You will be able to build both level 2,3,4 up structures (hope at least).
2. More HOMM III creatures will be back like Wyverns.
3. The expansion will be out within  8-12 months after the release.
4. More heroes will be introduced. Classes might stay the same.
5. More water/sea creatures additions!

Well that's all for now folks. Post yours below!

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Do I need DRUGS when I have HEROES?

Heroes == Good

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Midler
Midler


Hired Hero
High Priestess Elf Queen
posted February 21, 2002 09:59 PM

I say both level 2 and 3 units only in addition to level ones can be recruited. However, I doubt level 4 creatures will be both recruitable.

A Neutral town composed of neutral units available. Sadly, this is reality. We can't expect for a much more significant change.

Perhaps a few creatures will be added, at most 4.

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StormWarning
StormWarning


Promising
Famous Hero
Archmage of Thunder
posted February 21, 2002 10:14 PM

More multi-spells!

Like the Demon Summoning spells now (require Demonology + Nature Magic), I'd like to see others that fit in enemy schools. Possibilities:

Healing + Death Magic = life drain spells (like Vampiric Touch, which is already a Death spell, but I'd prefer to see it as a combo spell)

Pyromancy + Life Magic = effects like Magic Mirror (H3-style) or damage redirection

Wizardry or Enchantment + Chaos Magic = ??

Herbalism or Meditation + Order Magic = ??
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insatiable
insatiable


Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
posted February 21, 2002 10:28 PM

Random Generator

it's a must
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Jenova
Jenova


Famous Hero
posted February 22, 2002 03:26 AM

There will be one new town type, which is a gathering of all the past units that didn't make it into HOMM4 plus some summonables.

I hope to be proven wrong.
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Darion
Darion


Promising
Famous Hero
posted February 22, 2002 05:27 AM

It would be nice if NWC purposely left out one town, so when they add a new town in it would make 7 evenly balanced towns and schools of magic. The only problem is that this would have to be opposite of nature, which is machine (and in this case defined as order... Academy) so I have no idea what the new school/town should be.

The reasoning behind my idea of a new town is that it was a little odd for them to only have five towns... but perhaps it is just me. Death vs. Life, Order vs. Chaos.. Nature against- Combat? Somehow I don't think it works quite too well, since I think the Stronghold is supposed to be against everyone since it doesn't have magic... and this is making my head hurt.

So something opposite of nature, but not of life, death, order, chaos. Well, since nature magic specialty is summoning as well as enhancing the abilities of creatures.... i'm sorry, I have no idea what it should be. The only thing I can think of is some school of magic that is specially designed to reduce abilities of creatures and dispel summoned creatures.. but what kind of town is that?

Perhaps this new town's magic will not be against just Nature, but against all magic? Some spells that counterract/reflect/distort the effects of magic? It would be kinda boring, but think of it this way: Order magic specializes in mind magic, Life magic specializes in healing and protection, Chaos specializes in direct attac, Nature specializes in summoning and enhancing, Death specializes in summoning and indirectly damaging the enemy (gradualyl weakening over an extended amount of time). So if we have a new "magic school" that counterracts or does something so the magic backfire. This might be very important because spells are the only way to dish out damage without taking it at the same time. It would be an interesting town/school that could be built into the storyline somewhere along the lines of this:

"Big new opponent shows up. The other factions are busy fighting and using magic against each other. This includes stronghold. Big new opponents have powerful to control their opponents magic, and all towns (including stronghold.. who will be especially strong because of their lack in magic!) will have to unite to destroy/oppress this enemy."

So, this new magic school would include the following spells perhaps:

Anti-Magic- can't cast spells on the target of anti-magic.
Magic Mirror- reflects adverse spell affects back at the caster's troops
Mana burst- does X times amount of damage to a creature/hero by the amount of mana they have (or perhaps have potential for)
Senility- causes spellcasting to fail X percent of the time.
Remove Magic- removes for the X amount of turns any
"magical" special abilities (up to the interpretation of what is magical) so things like spellcasting, summoning, life draining, resurrection, maybe magic immunity?
Magic Weakness- causes a loss in resistance against ____ school of magic.
Inhibition- does not allow any spells other than of the Anti-magic school to be cast.
Magic Seeker- creature's attack does more damage to enchanted creatures
Counteract- changes a beneficial spell into a non-beneficial one (bless into curse, mirth into sorrow)
Confusion- causes spellcasting to take a random turn.. any spell might happent to be cast upon the target! (armaggeoddon, lightning bolt, bless, curse, anti-magic, mana burst etc.)
Permanency- used when a unit has been struck with a reflected spell, permanency makes the adverse effects last X times spell power.
Entropy- causes a unit's state to randomly change (stoned, paralyzed, hypnotized, poisoned, aged, etc.)

Heh.. that was fun. I don't know about creatures, because they aren't supposed to be "magical" I'm afraid they might be pretty boring. The only thing I can think of is some kind of spirit race that does not need magic to assist them...

Spirit Puppet- small white figure made of light, melee
Banshee- transparent ghost-like creature, uses a scream to attack- missile/flying
Avenger- humanoid in white and w/ cloak, does 200% damage against spellcasters (genies, magi, fairy dragons etc.)
Pegasi- ridden by avengers, these cost the enemy additional spell points in proportion to the spell level (even more spell points as you go up levels)
Doppleganger- can duplicate any opposing unit's ability.
Spectral wolf- effects of any spell cast are cast upon spectral wolf, beneficial or offensive (not damage, stuff like bless and curse)
Spirit Warrior- insubstantial, % counterract, melee
Spirit Drake- Flying, Golden breath, Magic Ward, 200% damage to black dragons, natural magic mirror.
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Cat
Cat


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Gonna Get Dirrty...
posted February 22, 2002 09:25 AM

I think we're more likely to get a cheat code that lets us build both structures.  Which would be nice, as I don't see those lovely white tigers getting a look in otherwise!!

My wishes for an expansion are:

1) More towns (maybe bringing bak some old fave creatures)
2) New map terrains
3) New spells
4) Maybe a level 5 creature?

Look at me- the games not even out yet and already I'm whinging!!
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Diwethaf Gloau Sylw y Gymreag

http://aozos.com/phpBB2/index.php

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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted February 22, 2002 09:47 AM

Quote:
I think we're more likely to get a cheat code that lets us build both structures.  Which would be nice, as I don't see those lovely white tigers getting a look in otherwise!!

My wishes for an expansion are:

1) More towns (maybe bringing bak some old fave creatures)
2) New map terrains
3) New spells
4) Maybe a level 5 creature?

Look at me- the games not even out yet and already I'm whinging!!


I guess that 1,2,4 prolly will come in a expansion. To me its quite funny that ppl find things to improve with a game that hasnt even been released yet...

I just hope i will be able to play H4 on my computer, im not so sure about that

/Stefan
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"Youre zeroes and ones, youre wrong where im right"

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insatiable
insatiable


Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
posted February 22, 2002 10:53 AM

$$$

Spending 10k,20wood,20ore,5crystal,5gems just to upgrade your income from 500k/day to 1000k/day seems outrageous to me!what a rip off...
...how are we suppose to build and buy army alltogether with 1000k allowance!??

so dissapointing
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StormWarning
StormWarning


Promising
Famous Hero
Archmage of Thunder
posted February 22, 2002 09:56 PM
Edited By: StormWarning on 22 Feb 2002

Quote:
...how are we suppose to build and buy army alltogether with 1000k allowance!??



That is ridiculous, now that I think about it more. (At first I thought Estates would make up for it, but since two towns don't have easy access to it ... ) I don't think the 4000 from H3 is the way to go on this one, but at least 1500-2000?
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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted February 22, 2002 10:38 PM

The problem is you're not going to have a level 20 Lord when you need the money the most. You'll have to get by with a level 1 Lord with basic Estates.

To get a hero to level 20 will take a month or two at a guess. You can't afford to hire creatures at the beginning so starting out without having a lot of Gold or Free joiners will be difficult.

I counted out what the Academy creatures cost:
Level 1:s about 500 gold/week each.
Level 2 about 1300 gold/week.
level 3 about 3300 gold/week
level 4: 8000 gold/week.
Total: about 13600 Gold/week.

Place said lord with GM Nobility and Estates as governer and you double creature production, you get some money but also double the cost of the creatures.

So the lord gives another 13600 Gold worth of creatures, but adds a lot less to income.

27200 Gold... How many towns do you need for that... About 4 Towns with 1000 Gold (but the upgrade is a rip-off), 8 Towns with 500 Gold. Then consider that to build the dwellings not to mention all their prerequisites will cost you another 30000 to 50000 Gold.

It's obvious that the main income will not come from the towns any more or we will have a lot of small towns scattered througout the land. This will look a lot more like H2 than H3. Game play has been slowed down.

All thi is not necessarily bad, but will the average player want it to take 2-3 month to get a level 4 dwelling and then only be able to afford it in one town?

Will there be things to explore and do while you're waiting to get money for your dwellings/creatures?

I was wondering a bit before why the Charm and Diplomacy bonuses seemed so low. They're probably low because stack sizes will be a lot less in Heroes 4 than in Heroes 3.

The only problem I see with that is: where will Heroes get their XP from?

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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"

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Darion
Darion


Promising
Famous Hero
posted February 22, 2002 11:41 PM

Only solution I can think of that is an increased value in experience per creature... either that or a decreased amount of exp points for level-ups.
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Triton
Triton


Adventuring Hero
Master of the Deep
posted February 23, 2002 02:55 AM

I think that maybe we shouln't go too paranoid over this.The information given by the Russian site is based on the preview build and things might change.After all, I think it doesn't need too much work tweaking the income of the city hall.Just keep our fingers crossed that NWC isn't going to spoil a prospectively superb game by continuingthis mistake
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Jenova
Jenova


Famous Hero
posted February 23, 2002 03:23 AM

You need to capture a lot of gold mines I guess.. but then again I heard gold mines also cost about 5000g and some wood before you can even start mining from it.. A bit silly if you ask me.

Quote:
I think we're more likely to get a cheat code that lets us build both structures. Which would be nice, as I don't see those lovely white tigers getting a look in otherwise!!


I don't think there is room in the castle view to allow for both sets of structures to be placed there.. They both must be using the same space.
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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted February 23, 2002 10:25 AM

Storm Warning mentioned 15000 Gold to develope a Gold Mine. I believe I've seen 5000 somewhere but then for a precious resource mine.

These prices are aligned with the town income. It's simply supposed to take 15-30 days to break-even on an economical investment. This means that we should edxpect the normal game to last at least double this time or even more. A gaming session lasting for 3-4 months would be normal.

I'd agree with Jenova we won't be able to build both upgrades in a town, and as it looks now nobody would be able to afford it anyway, and you'll anyway have lots and lots of undeveloped towns due to slowed down economy.

I don't think these prices are a mistake at all. High level heroes are around 20-30, they won't rise further. They'll be left at 20-40% of their developement. Most towns will also be left that way, at Village Hall and no Fort. The fact we're seeing fully developed town is probably only thanks to Cheat Codes.

The Estates/Nobility Hero would actually be able to cover most of the increased cost in my example. Level 20 with GM estates, gives 1500 per day or 10500 per week, so it does cover most of the cost.

How Heroes will gain XP is a bit of a mystery. XP values of creatures are like this if we take Academy:

Dwarf           12 HP 8 XP
Halfling        8 HP 7 XP
Gold Golem      50 HP 51 XP
Mage            16 HP 38 XP
Genie           60 HP 105 XP
Naga            90 HP 157 XP
Dragon Golem    220 HP 630 XP
Titan           210 HP 616 XP

These XP values align fairly well with the Health values before they introduced the Attack and defence modifiers.

You do get some extra XP if you fight high level creatures, but you won't be able to fight them any time soon.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"

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Jenova
Jenova


Famous Hero
posted February 23, 2002 03:09 PM

Slowed down economy is a bad thing IMO. It makes games last longer. And it doesn't help that getting gold mines (and other mines) will be so difficult to do either (thanks to additional costs in getting the mine running). It might make sense in real life to cost you gold to start getting gold from a mine, but not in a game. Especially if your mine gets stolen by the CPU the next day..

Since it will be difficult to build up structures and be able to afford a week's worth of creatures with your week's income, there will be lots of unbuilt units which will need more time to buy. You won't be able to catch up with creature growth. And with simultaneous retaliation in battles, you can't avoid casualties anymore like you could with your uber party.. which means your armies get thinner after every battle, which means you gotta replace them more often, which means you need to spend more money.. money that is hard to get.

The only way I see is to conquer heaps of castles and only develop a few of them. Go around capturing mines that other players have "freed" (can you put a garrison to guard the mine?) and annoying the heck out of everyone.
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StormWarning
StormWarning


Promising
Famous Hero
Archmage of Thunder
posted February 23, 2002 05:22 PM
Edited By: StormWarning on 23 Feb 2002

I think I'll wait to pass final judgment on the new economy until I've tried it out for a while, but it's likely to be frustrating at first because of having to build the mines.

Djive, GM Nobility doubles creature production, but GM Estates by level 10 (assuming you have City Hall, which is probably a waste) doubles the town's income. GM Estates at level 5 (which is practically impossible), or Master Estates by level 9 (I'm assuming 400 + 10% per level) = a Town Hall, and GM at any level, Master by level 3, or Expert (300 + 10% per level) at level 7 = a Village Hall.

Estates and Nobility will complement each other greatly - Estates gives you enough money to buy the extra creatures from Nobility and also to build the new dwellings. But buying the mines could be difficult, because you'll have to save up forever to get the cash.

Jenova - how do you take over someone else's mines if they don't have the money to build them either?
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insatiable
insatiable


Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
posted February 23, 2002 05:31 PM

Pathfinding

I read this recently,by a beta-tester:
"Another thing that caught my eye was hero's largely decreased walking distance. Roaming around is a challenging task from now on. It took me almost three turns to catch up with a pair of Behemots browsing peacefully outside the town. "

arghh.....WHAT!?you call me a pessimist..?


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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted February 23, 2002 05:33 PM

As far as I know the Estates % is on the base amount, which is 100, 200, 300, 400 or 500 depending on your Mastery. Govereners doesn't affect Town Income, by the level percentage, that was my reflection on how to get more money.

A high level Hero with good Estates skill will give you more money than a Town ever could.

---

At this point most things points to greatly slowed down game play, inability to build anything which isn't prebuilt and things like that. Perhaps developing one town out of 8 or 10 (for dwellings), because you can't afford more.

---

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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"

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Jenova
Jenova


Famous Hero
posted February 24, 2002 02:51 AM

Quote:
Jenova - how do you take over someone else's mines if they don't have the money to build them either?


Good point. ;-)

Err.. I suppose you could play on Impossible where the computer players get lots of free resources per day and can therefore afford the mines.. *shrugs*
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