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Heroes Community > Tavern of the Rising Sun > Thread: My Racist Uncle
Thread: My Racist Uncle This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · «PREV
xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 28, 2011 10:53 AM

Quote:
I come from Canada and if not for the hard working immigrants that came here(European countries) we couldn't have accompished this much. I'll bet that it's just as good for this country to accept those who want a 'better' life for themselves. As long as ppl who want to work hard and contribute continue to come here the country will be in good stead.


There's a very big difference between European immigration and the immigration countries such as Sweden suffers from countries like Somalia (we get several thousand somali immigrants every year, our integration/assimilation policies aren't working at all = lots unemployment that leads into very high crime rates and complete dependancy on expensive tax-payed social welfare money)

I really doubt people get "racist" over european immigrants.

And that also depends on how people define the word "racist", atleast in Sweden that word has lost its meaning. If you critize the enormous segregation that Sweden suffers because of the consequences of mass non-european immigration, then the media can call you racist.
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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 28, 2011 12:11 PM

Quote:
I come from Canada and if not for the hard working immigrants that came here(European countries) we couldn't have accompished this much.


define "this much"

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Gibblets
Gibblets


Adventuring Hero
Spontaneously Coherent Typist
posted October 28, 2011 10:24 PM
Edited by Gibblets at 22:30, 28 Oct 2011.

@Xerox
I can't comment on a country that allows mass over immigration nor on Swedens social/foreign policies as they have nothing to do with what I was talking about and I have practically 0 knowledge on them. However I CAN comment on "I really doubt people get "racist" over european immigrants" People sure did get racist over European immigrants, terms like Spics(Italians) Limies(U.K. english) Froggies(French) just for example were used by the other Europeans here after they themselves got here. Not to mention the Aboriginals calling all europeans White Man when we immigrated/invaded here. Just as now when you go to, for ex. Vancouver, there's a section of the city known as China Town. Well way back when the Europeans where the most numerous immigrants the Italians were grouped together and lived in a Little Italy. But they brought their hard working attitutdes and put up lots of great businesses and eventually revitalized the downtown area.

IMO a cause of this is just because you move to a different country doesn't mean you drop all of the stereotypes and prejudices you inheritted from your culture or 'Home Land'. Sadly lots of people carry their bigotting with them to different countries and honestly it's understandable. However those beliefs begin to fade within 2-3 generations as ppl have the opportunity see beyond superficial attributes.

I would define Racism as: (I took this quote from wikipedia, yes I looked at multiple sites but this was the best) "Racism is the belief that inherent different traits in human racial groups justify discrimination."


@Fauch
Well the push Westward through uncharted (to European standards) wilderness to find 'new' land to settle. Then the actual work of settling, clearing 90+Acres of Forest to build a farm for survival, all the while trying to figure out how the Native and Foreign Cultures could live together. (Not a good record there, but a hell of a lot better then the U.S.)

Then came nation building which started in 1867. 144 years later here we are after many events like the building of the CPR where Many thousands of navvies worked on the railway. Many were European immigrants. In British Columbia, the CPR hired workers from China, called coolies. A navvy received between $1 and $2.50 per day, but had to pay for his own food, clothing, transportation to the job site, mail and medical care. After 2-1/2 months of back-breaking labour, they could net as little as $16. Chinese coolies in British Columbia made only between 75 cents and $1.25 a day, paid in rice mats, and not including expenses, leaving barely anything to send home. They did the most dangerous construction jobs, such as working with explosives to clear tunnels through rock. The families of the Chinese who were killed received no compensation, or even notification of loss of life. Many of the men who survived did not have enough money to return to their families in China, although Chinese labour contractors had promised that as part of their responsibilities. Many spent years in lonely, sad and often poor conditions.

Now exists the country of Canada, whatever it means to you. Without the hard, hard work which borders on cruel sacrifice of immigrants this country wouldn't be anything like it is now.

Does that clear it up for you?

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 28, 2011 10:37 PM

Oh come on, Canada's immigration rules are among the most harsh in the world, behind China only. Being accepted in Canada is as hard as accomplishing the "american dream". I know that because I have tried during 5 long years to move there, and never got positive answer, although I fulfilled 14 of the 15 conditions. The 15th was about 250 000$ in bank and I was aged of 18, no way to have so much.

Canada and Switzerland only accept very rich immigrants, and stay safe.
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gibblets
gibblets


Adventuring Hero
Spontaneously Coherent Typist
posted October 28, 2011 11:57 PM
Edited by gibblets at 00:00, 29 Oct 2011.

This is exactly why I like to have this disucssion with people from other places. I did not know a requirement was to have $250,000 in the bank. That's insanity, is the 250k in Canadian dollars or your native currency? Is the $$ a requirement because of your age or family status?

I'd say F any country that demands you bring 1/4million dollars wealth from their home land to that country. If that's a universal requirement, then I agree with you Salamandre. That's a very elitist rule and it reflects poorly on what this country has to offer.

Although as Xerox has displayed having a country with too lax immigration rules results in Swedens situation. But I would like to have high speed internet as a right instead of only having dial-up or, slightly faster but mega expensive, satellite internet until 2 months back when I moved into a city.

As it stands in Canada we can't sustain our population numbers. The only way we can keep our population as high as it is is because of immigrants. (who get a cr@p deal it seems)

It's definitely none of my business Salamadre but why are you interested in coming to Canada?

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 29, 2011 12:01 AM
Edited by Fauch at 00:07, 29 Oct 2011.

that's quite a surprising requirement. obviously from people who don't want to take any risk as you said.

Gibblets : yes

Quote:
Well way back when the Europeans where the most numerous immigrants the Italians were grouped together and lived in a Little Italy.


it was their choice, or they were forced to live in a ghetto?

people often seem to identify themselves to their country and regroup with people who identify themselves with the same entity, which is quite weird, because it doesn't seem to say many things on who you and others people are. they could and probably will have for most of them very different interests from yours.

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted October 29, 2011 12:13 AM

True, but the most common necessities will likely be similar. Such as the food and food procedure, the toilet facilities, the unwritten rules between eachother, etc. I.e. it's more comfortable. It's still probably not the smartest thing to do though.

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gibblets
gibblets


Adventuring Hero
Spontaneously Coherent Typist
posted October 29, 2011 12:15 AM

I'm sure it was their choice and had to have partly been due to the culture shock both groups felt upon living in close quarters. But too often it's a result of prejudice which makes the new feel like outsiders. Just remember your school life, there's probably more then a few situations you witnessed something similar happen to the 'new guys/girls'. Extrpolate that to complicated and sophistocated adult terms and there you go.
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Shyranis
Shyranis


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted October 29, 2011 12:22 AM

I can safely say we here in Canada (I'm in Ottawa) have a ton of Somali immigrants that do nothing but stay home on welfare. They honestly tick me off because they make the honest families look bad. We need to ratchet up the enforcement and the like of our Welfare rules. More evaluations and stricter circumstances, people need to prove they either are looking for work and having difficulty (to which, the government can help them find menial work easily) or are ineligible for work (disabled, like my dad's stroke).
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gibblets
gibblets


Adventuring Hero
Spontaneously Coherent Typist
posted October 29, 2011 12:22 AM

Change is never easy, let me ask you a question OhforfSake. If you moved to another country with some of your relatives would you find it easier to slowly adapt with your relatives around providing a feeling of comfort, home and therefor security or be a stranger in a crowd and sink or swim. I'd stick to my ethnic group and over time open up to the new customs and beliefs I find myself in when I can mentally handle it.

Besides that, all the cultural nuances that get generated and woven into the social fabric of a country as new groups immigrate there Really do provide a catalyst for some much needed change in the status quo. Personally speaking I'm a very happen person to have everyone of French decent here, if it wasn't for their beliefs, imo, this country would be dangerously conservative(right wing) right now.
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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted October 29, 2011 12:24 AM

But we need to perform nation wide experiments to be able to say with certain probability how likely such an extrapolation is to be correct within the frames of the experiment

After all, school is something you're forced to. I mean you can feel you're forced as an adult as well, and if you just lie down and do what's comfortable, I imagine the analogy would hold true, but in principle, you've a choice between suck and suck and more suckiness as an adult, compared to only a single suck as a child, unless your parents move, but then it's not really your choice.

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gibblets
gibblets


Adventuring Hero
Spontaneously Coherent Typist
posted October 29, 2011 12:37 AM
Edited by gibblets at 00:41, 29 Oct 2011.

@Shyranis
Wait, how does someone staying home on welfare willingly coasting at the bottom of society make a family of 'normal' aka conformed people look bad?

Even more importantly are you advocating that if someone doesn't conform to your idea of what someone should do with their life that they should be reprimanded and punished severely? That sounds dangerously intolerant and if I may say so myself ignorant. That's the attitude that crushes things like the Renaissance, the sixties Peace Movement, and maybe even the Occupy Wallstreet Movement.

Also is it better to go to work at say McDonalds and earn $720 a paycheck or be on Welfare and get about $800 AND have the extra 80 hours to raise your kids and help out in your ethnic community? To me that's a no brainer, however I'm not interested in debating whether or not Canadas Welfare rules are just. (because they're not)

However have you ever thought where all of that money goes once it's paid out? It's the trickle up effect at it's extreme, all these ppl buy food, utilites, rent, go to movies, GAMBLING, BOOZE, CIGARETTES, and more luxury items then they can/should afford. Which due to taxes, sales and income, a large percentage goes right back to the government after going through yours and my fingers. Since our local businesses benefit from welfare money that gets spent in our cities.
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If it's true that our species is alone in the Universe, then I'd have to say the Universe aimed low, and settled for very little. - George Carlin

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Gibblets
Gibblets


Adventuring Hero
Spontaneously Coherent Typist
posted October 29, 2011 01:27 AM

@Shyranis
Ignore this part of my previous post as I realized it was out of line after I re-read your post Shyranis, the site won't let me edit it out of my prior response.

"Even more importantly are you advocating that if someone doesn't conform to your idea of what someone should do with their life that they should be reprimanded and punished severely? That sounds dangerously intolerant and if I may say so myself ignorant. That's the attitude that crushes things like the Renaissance, the sixties Peace Movement, and maybe even the Occupy Wallstreet Movement."
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If it's true that our species is alone in the Universe, then I'd have to say the Universe aimed low, and settled for very little. - George Carlin

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 29, 2011 02:05 AM

Quote:
but why are you interested in coming to Canada?


Because I loved the place. I moved for financial reasons to France and regretted it forever. At that time, my country was not in Europe and canadian immigration rules were very restrictive, read!

Usually they demand funds for proving you can subsist 6 months, but for unemployed students, as I was, the condition was 2 years not dependent of welfare or social aid. And it was half million. Outside my bad experience with it, I believe the canadian system is the optimal one, wish France had used it before it became a snowhole like today-sorry Fauch-. If you read in my link, you can see that it is impossible to immigrate in without providing strong evidence, bachelor, specific job among 29 proposed, language and funds. This eliminates 99% of the "third world" massive waves.
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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 29, 2011 03:03 AM

oh yeah, I read they have just reduced the number of jobs proposed.
that's like utilitarianism at its worst. foreigners are only welcome to come work if they bring with them some specific formations that french people are unlikely to have received

well in another hand, we know that otherwise french people will say that immigrants steal their work. and if they don't work they are probably doing nothing and frauding the wellfare. but any native french person can do that as well. each time you don't get a job, you don't know whether a french or an immigrant got it instead. and you probably don't care.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 29, 2011 04:24 PM

The world is economically broken, each country except China is heavily wounded and trying to delay the implosion. In such case, a country is like an enterprise on a larger scale, and in an enterprise you don't hire people without skills if you fear bankruptcy. On individual scale, it sounds not decisive but when you add incompetent individuals by millions, the cacophony raises.

Eventually China will join the losers club too when its people will wake up from communist lethargy and stop acting like robots. But until then, they are the only ones in promising shape.
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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 29, 2011 05:12 PM
Edited by Fauch at 17:14, 29 Oct 2011.

there is a difference between really incompetent people and those who just need a formation. but even in training periods they only take the bests, it should be called free work, not training period.

they are just making the situation worse by keeping millions of people out of the work market because they don't want to offer them formations. oh yes, there are formations. but far from enough room for everyone.

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