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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: Which Heroes games have the smartest AI?
Thread: Which Heroes games have the smartest AI? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
tokse
tokse

Tavern Dweller
posted November 07, 2011 03:49 PM

Which Heroes games have the smartest AI?

I'm playing Heroes 5 (with TotE)these days at difficulty hard. I find that the AI does stupid things sometimes, like splitting up huge armies to smaller armies that I can destroy easily. Are Heroes 6 AI opponents smarter? How about the earlier ones, like Heroes 3 and Heroes 4?

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted November 07, 2011 03:58 PM

Well, if you want to have a very humorous and yet enlightening insight to the Heroes 4 AI, look here (from section XI and forth).
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted November 07, 2011 04:00 PM
Edited by Zenofex at 16:01, 07 Nov 2011.

It's smarter than the Heroes V one but still grossly inferior to the Heroes I-III AIs. You can lay siege on a fully fortified town with a garrison 40-50% stronger than your army, equally powerful hero on the other side, to be outmatched in the ranged department and still to come out victorious even on the highest difficulty. Just for example.

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SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted November 08, 2011 04:08 AM

Best AI will be H5.5 mod by Quantomas
here or here
[play on heroic since AI creature bonus cheats have been removed, and there is currently an adjustable slider for duration of AI building discount]

If all those accounts on ubi-forums are correct, I think H6 AI is worse than H5TotE 3.1 AI without above mod.
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Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus

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mike80d
mike80d


Famous Hero
Map Maker
posted November 08, 2011 01:06 PM

Starting in April of this past year I went back and played every single Homm fairly extensively.  I can say with certainty that Homm5 has the worst (most predictable and least creative) AI.  My opinion is that Homm3 had the best AI b/c it was much more random, it explored, and could be challenging.  

The heroes 6 AI needs some work, but it is definitely better than Homm5 AI.

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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted November 08, 2011 04:06 PM

@SKPRIMUS

With the latest H5.5 release "J", <imo> the A.I. is becoming very challenging. Are you experiencing that too?

A favor to ask of you. Can you test the follow-up map I was telling you about? Just one play-through w/ feedback to me at EE would be a big help.

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Ankhes
Ankhes


Hired Hero
posted November 08, 2011 04:13 PM

I have played all Heroes games and Hard on Homm6 is the dumbest ai i have ever seen in turn-based strategy. I'm not sure about Normal and Easy(which might be harder lol since Hard doesn't do anthing). Basically Hard AI is non-existent on adventure map. It just stays in base all game long waiting for you to conquer his castle.

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Zeki
Zeki


Supreme Hero
sup
posted November 08, 2011 04:15 PM

Have you really plyed the normal homm 6? Because it does do things. Maybe you're still playing beta or so where the ai is turned off?
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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted November 08, 2011 04:57 PM

Heroes 3 had the best balance, but not AI.

Heroes 1 had the best AI, it was a simple game with simple rules, easy for AI programming code...

My opinion.

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SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted November 08, 2011 06:35 PM

Quote:
@SKPRIMUS

With the latest H5.5 release "J", <imo> the A.I. is becoming very challenging. Are you experiencing that too?

A favor to ask of you. Can you test the follow-up map I was telling you about? Just one play-through w/ feedback to me at EE would be a big help.
Sure Markkur, I'd be very glad to help but it might take at least till end of weekend tho. <sent you message in EE>
ofc, H5.5 is more interesting now because at least there are some interesting battle replays that can be posted (otherwise no replays of any interest).
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted November 08, 2011 07:50 PM

Quote:
Best AI will be H5.5 mod by Quantomas


Not fair to include mods. Then I can show you wog (Heroes 3.5) where AI does exactly what we say him to do and much more.

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Era II mods and utilities

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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted November 08, 2011 11:29 PM

E.E really shouldn't be called a Mod or Patch. When it's finished it will be a complete Stand-alone A.I. that will break new-ground in gaming.

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted November 09, 2011 12:09 AM

I have only played heroes 2-4, but in my experience the AI does horribly in all of them.

Though on some fields (like chosen spells, priority of map locations, how to divide the army, etc.) I just can't help but get the impression it's more a matter of the makers of the AI not having the best tactical understanding of the games. Either that, or they make the AI do very bad decisions on purpose, maybe so even the guy who wasted the first two months can still win the game in the end (i.e. it's for a broad audience), though in that case, there's not much "impossible" about the impossible difficulty and funny thing is that in Heroes 4, the champion difficulty often seems easier than the lower difficulties.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted November 09, 2011 05:29 AM

Yeah sure, AI is bad. Now tell me when was your last game where you did not save constantly, reload battles if things not ok for you. Try one day to play a whole game without relying on a single save, as AI does, then post here again your result.
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Era II mods and utilities

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted November 09, 2011 07:01 AM
Edited by DoubleDeck at 07:01, 09 Nov 2011.

@Salamandre -> what about AI cheating?

Sometimes playing H5 on Heroic against AI, your only chance was to save and load alot to maximize your turns with few losses and best hero build cos AI had tier 7's in week one....

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 09, 2011 08:58 AM
Edited by Fauch at 08:58, 09 Nov 2011.

that was the main danger in H5, because in a late game fight, the AI was unable to correctly use all it had, and the numerical difference was not very significant anymore.

it has been a long time, but I remember the H2 AI as quite dangerous. it didn't even hesitate to cast armaggeddon. ouch.

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VokialBG
VokialBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted November 09, 2011 09:33 AM
Edited by VokialBG at 09:34, 09 Nov 2011.

Quote:
Well, if you want to have a very humorous and yet enlightening insight to the Heroes 4 AI, look here (from section XI and forth).


Wasn't there someone who did similar experiment with H5? I can't remember who. Results were similar.
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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted November 09, 2011 09:57 AM
Edited by Warmonger at 09:58, 09 Nov 2011.

Quote:
Quote:
Best AI will be H5.5 mod by Quantomas


Not fair to include mods. Then I can show you wog (Heroes 3.5) where AI does exactly what we say him to do and much more.



For example cast Berserk or stand still in castle during siege just because its troops are blinded.

The main idea of AI (artificial intelligence) is that doesn't need to be given orders to act resonably. When it does, it's no longer AI but script.
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted November 09, 2011 12:02 PM

And what is if not script? Everything is script, the difference is who did it, a fan or the game producers. AI is not excessively bad (dunno about H4), is just that we got the habit to overplay it using saves and reloads. In H3 a regular template on 200% vs 6 AI is decent if you never save/reload. It will even surprise us sometimes.
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Era II mods and utilities

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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted November 09, 2011 12:29 PM
Edited by Warmonger at 12:30, 09 Nov 2011.

Quote:
And what is if not script? Everything is script, the difference is who did it, a fan or the game producers.

You are wrong. AI by definition is capable of handling all kinds of situations within its scope, including untypical ones. It is not determined by linear script and can utilize different means to achieve the goal on its own.

Still, only a handful of games utilize 'real' AI, as it usually does not pay back. A player does not really care whether computer behaviour is deterministic, random or flexible as long as it does make sense. Many games do not need any smart AI at all.

Wiki presents typical AI problems, however I'm afraid this view is just too general to be meaningful. I've found much more interesting definitions and approaches to AI in some books or just uni course, but it also involves philosophical investigations of what "knowledge" or "understanding" means.
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!

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