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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: [POLL] What is the real problem with Pirates of the Savage Sea?
Thread: [POLL] What is the real problem with Pirates of the Savage Sea? This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV
hobo2
hobo2


Promising
Known Hero
posted July 11, 2012 07:48 PM

Quote:
While I am confident that we will get an improved skill system(though I doubt a total redesign), I do not believe it is a short term plan. But making the choice between skills meaningful? That you can count on.


While it is theoretically possible to make skills like Ice Bolt be something other than the complete waste of time that they are now, the core issue with the skill system isn't even that there are so few decent builds. That's a big issue, but it pales in comparison to the fact that there just isn't much in the way of a difference between what is available or useful to heroes of different factions or orientations. A skill build for your Inferno Might Hero is pretty likely to work for your Sanctuary Magic Hero with at most some minor alterations. Once you find something that works, you really can just spam it in all situations until you win the game. And that's incredibly demotivating.

Yes, it's a problem that right now Reinforcements is so good in both creeps and final battles that it's a must-take even for Blood/Magic Heroes. But that is just a subset of the larger problem that the game is pretty much incapable of offering an incentive large enough to break people out of repetitive skill use complacency.

Quote:
If anything it is clear that ubi reaps what they have sown.. Some more money up front would have saved them a lot of expenses and sale losses in the future.


That I can agree with. Ubisoft has burnt their bridge with me. They released a scaled back, yet nearly unplayably buggy game with fundamental design failures throughout. And then they decided to treat me like a criminal with a ridiculously intrusive DRM that break my saves when their servers don't work. That is not acceptable and I don't accept it.

If they want any more money from me, they need to do the whole apology tour. And I mean the whole thing: free patches, DRM rollbacks, bonus factions, and major rethinks in everything from skill interactivity to creature damage. And then, if their stuff started actually working, I might be persuaded to pay actual money for things they put their name on in the future.

Yes, it's that bad. And it's their fault, and they need to acknowledge that.

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GMnemonic
GMnemonic


Hired Hero
posted July 12, 2012 12:32 AM


Well the real problem is.

No faction, too expansive,

homm VI base game is prices about 60,- dollars  or euros,

this DLC is priced about 10,-

base game they had to write engine, ai, create 5 factions, 5 campaigns, multiplayer, snowty conflux, interface, terrain etc. Skirmish maps, skill system etc...

all of that isen't nessesairy for the creation of an expansion.

So I say if that's 60, then 1 faction with a campaign should be profitable, at around 13 dollars if u divide the price by 5.
NO I know they want lot's more money and I am fine with that.

But Ubisoft theatens me there probably even won't finish up the full roster instead they waist time on these few maps wich they grossly overcharge where every HOMM fan waits for an honest expansion with factions in them.

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Fraudatio
Fraudatio


Famous Hero
posted July 15, 2012 04:10 PM

What it comes back to all the time for me is this: Lack of randomness -> lack of replayability and exitement. I only play multiplayer, so Dcl is of no interest, but an important factor of my previous H2-H5 addiction was this:

Which faction/hero do i get? (random hero)
How can i best play this hero with these crazy starting skills, sylvan hero with summoning etc?
Oh, so next levelup i get Exp Summon and basic war machines. Should i go for WM? Should i risk to take exp summon so i get to new basic skills next time?

ADAPT TO THE SITuATION, making the most out of it, NO GAME WAS THE SAME. So i get basic fire and basic sorcery next lvlup, well, how can i make the best out of a fire and summon sylvan hero?

And with H6, which is SUCH a great game in many aspects, i must chose everything myself, making everything sooo predictable.The thrill is gone, and i hate that.

Wishlist:
Random faction/hero
A skill system where some choices must be made.
Sim turns

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esvath
esvath


Known Hero
posted July 15, 2012 07:21 PM
Edited by esvath at 19:25, 15 Jul 2012.

Quote:
What it comes back to all the time for me is this: Lack of randomness -> lack of replayability and exitement. I only play multiplayer, so Dcl is of no interest, but an important factor of my previous H2-H5 addiction was this:

Which faction/hero do i get? (random hero)
How can i best play this hero with these crazy starting skills, sylvan hero with summoning etc?
Oh, so next levelup i get Exp Summon and basic war machines. Should i go for WM? Should i risk to take exp summon so i get to new basic skills next time?

ADAPT TO THE SITuATION, making the most out of it, NO GAME WAS THE SAME. So i get basic fire and basic sorcery next lvlup, well, how can i make the best out of a fire and summon sylvan hero?

And with H6, which is SUCH a great game in many aspects, i must chose everything myself, making everything sooo predictable.The thrill is gone, and i hate that.


This. While I exclusively play single player games (and sometime hot seat against myself), I strongly feel the lack of randomness lead to boring game.

I stop playing H6 after patch 1.1.1, just occasionally open the game to patch. I came back after 1.5 to see the town screen. Now, I play H6 like H3-H5. Whenever I level up, I roll a random generator to determine where will I spend the point. I force myself to differentiate each heroes by assigning randomizer to myself, something that should be imbedded in the mechanic. Whoever decided to cut townscreens, introduce non-random skill choice at level up, only two heroes available at start up and Blood/Tear only for the first hero has failed to understand basic elements which make Heroes so captivating.

Oh, and let us remember the glory of H6's Conflux. I always play offline, because I have lousy internet connection. While I am saved from Conflux mess (missing save games, server down time at week ends, etc), I am being discriminated here by the so-called Dynasty Weapon, Altar of Wishes and so on, and so forth.

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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted July 15, 2012 07:46 PM

It doesn't work.
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down

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Karanshade
Karanshade


Adventuring Hero
posted July 16, 2012 08:32 PM

I love the heroes serie.
I like HVI. At least I like the direction they are taking. Less random in skills, less moronic hero chains to get the creature, town conversion ,area of controls, the idea of three level of creatures core, elite and the big guy.I like the ideas.I hate that you can again buy many secondary heroes but it s not so important.
I m not such a fan of the implementations of the ideas though , same as many people ,some skills were useless , some gross imbalances etc ....


Ubi seems to have bought a brain recently and considered changing things with some regularities. And ...yeah I could not consider buying a DLC for a game who does not get a new patch every two weeks. OK now they are going for once a month , I might live with that.
In league of legends they make a new patch every two weeks and they were just a start-up company just two years ago so ....

Now that things are going better , why not buy a DLC ?

I also play civilisation. For a minor DLC like this one. Something empty content wise ( a 10 hours scenario is it ?) , I would consider paying 1 to 2 euros. For a major DLC , like a new faction , I could go to 5 euros.
So no sorry , no 10 euros DLC for me. Ubi is getting better but they are still to lazy to get more money from me.

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watcher83
watcher83


Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
posted July 16, 2012 08:51 PM

   This game is a bad joke.  
I don't even consider it being part of the HoMM series. After buying it I had to wait like 3 months for Ubi to make it playable, but not bug free. And then I realised how shallow and boring it is. And now they want money for a map and a barbarian skin? LOL
____________

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Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted July 16, 2012 10:25 PM

Quote:
I like HVI. At least I like the direction they are taking. Less random in skills, less moronic hero chains to get the creature, town conversion ,area of controls, the idea of three level of creatures core, elite and the big guy.I like the ideas.
Just wanted to say that I dislike all of those things.
You know, just to balance it out.

One should not be able to win every single normal map with only one strong hero.
Even important military leaders need help now and then, and the Heroes franchise has always been a strategy game series with aspects of role-playing, centered around war and skirmishes, not a role-playing game with strategy elements as Ubisoft seems to believe has been the case the entire time.

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Karanshade
Karanshade


Adventuring Hero
posted July 16, 2012 11:16 PM
Edited by Karanshade at 23:17, 16 Jul 2012.

Quote:
Quote:
I like HVI. At least I like the direction they are taking. Less random in skills, less moronic hero chains to get the creature, town conversion ,area of controls, the idea of three level of creatures core, elite and the big guy.I like the ideas.
Just wanted to say that I dislike all of those things.
You know, just to balance it out.

One should not be able to win every single normal map with only one strong hero.
Even important military leaders need help now and then, and the Heroes franchise has always been a strategy game series with aspects of role-playing, centered around war and skirmishes, not a role-playing game with strategy elements as Ubisoft seems to believe has been the case the entire time.


I have trouble remembering when it has been a strategy game based on skirmishes.
In most (all?) previous homm , the strategy was basically one big hero.
At least for the second , third and fifth opus it was. Don't remember the fourth much , as I was to buzy to play it a lot.
Now we have more options for the secondary "scout" at least.

EDIT: I realize we are going off topic , aren't we ?

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Brukernavn
Brukernavn

Hero of Order
posted July 17, 2012 04:26 AM

Quote:
Now we have more options for the secondary "scout" at least.

Like taking over enemy mines, defeating neutrals with creatures from an enemy castle of a different faction and gaining reputation? No, wait... Areas of control mean they have to have a sizable army to take over mines, castle conversion means you rarely will have mixed faction armies, and secondary heroes don't have reputation for some brilliant unknown reason. They don't even have the same sized avatar as your starting hero!

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e-lysander
e-lysander


Known Hero
Lysander
posted July 17, 2012 04:37 AM
Edited by e-lysander at 04:38, 17 Jul 2012.

My biggest problem with it and Heroes VI, as well as Heroes V is that New World Computing and Jon Van Canegham have nothing to do with them. So why bother?

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Slayer
Slayer


Adventuring Hero
posted July 18, 2012 05:09 PM

I think it's funny how people think simultaneous turns would ever work in a turn based game... Lol, theres like 5 ppl who say that in this thread.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Alone in the Forest
posted July 18, 2012 05:15 PM

I think it's funny how some people don't realize that sim turns are absolutely essential for multiplayer. But you haven't played multiplayer competitively, have you? If you had you would have seen for yourself.
____________
Mind the gap between your mind and reality.

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hobo2
hobo2


Promising
Known Hero
posted July 18, 2012 05:33 PM

Quote:
I think it's funny how people think simultaneous turns would ever work in a turn based game... Lol, theres like 5 ppl who say that in this thread.


Play a game that has simultaneous turns like Dominions 3 or Master of Orion 2, then come back and eat your crow. Waiting for 7 other people to take their turns one at a time before you can move is not acceptable for a turn based strategy game. The world standard evolved beyond hotseat over 16 years ago. Simultaneous Turns in major turn-based strategy games is almost old enough to vote. It's been done. It works.

It would be difficult to implement in Heroes of Might and Magic, because historically you have battles in the middles of your turn rather than at the end. But if you can't figure out at least half a dozen ways around that, you don't deserve to call yourself a game designer.

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