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| Thread: How to create a HOMM3 mod? | |
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gcampos
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 18, 2012 12:05 AM |
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How to create a HOMM3 mod?
I'm wondering how hard would be to create my own mod. Does anyone knows any site or forum where I could get some help on this topic? My ultimate goal would be to improve the AI, but I'm not sure how easy would be to do that.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 18, 2012 01:01 AM |
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Improving AI logic is impossible unless you code from scratch, as vcmi. But based on game play observation, experience and tests we can make AI much more competitive, by eliminating things that slow him down, giving the right bonuses and such. I made such mod for Era (Better AI). There is also Phoenix mod which greatly boosts AI.
For SoD/Heroes complete I think is impossible, we have no way to code things only for AI. Unless you design a custom map and via events you give bonuses.
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Era II mods and utilities
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gcampos
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 18, 2012 01:27 AM |
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The idea of creating a new engine from scratch is awesome!! I can't wait to go back home and check out that! I notice they just released a new version some days ago...
The possibilities are endless, it could be done way more than just AI stuff, but I wonder how legal is the project? Couldn't Ubisoft sue the group because they own the HOMM rights?
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted October 18, 2012 01:38 AM |
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In homm5 the AI is human like in one aspect, if he has ranged units and you have none, he doesnt attack you with his melee units immidiately. He weakens you with his ranged units first, while you're closing in. I always wandered if that was possible to recode in Homm3 too. It really makes a difference.
That and the battle queue of homm5. The vcmi transfered that to 3. It would be wonderful as a mod for Era too but Bersy says it is hard to port. So i dont have much hope.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 18, 2012 03:24 AM |
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Compared to H5 AI, H3 AI is a god. If you think he does not manage well his shooters or battles, try some hard custom maps and it will drive you crazy. If he has strong shooters and you none, he will protect them at any cost.
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Era II mods and utilities
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gcampos
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 18, 2012 04:34 AM |
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I don't mind the battle AI, I don't think is too bad (is not perfect, of course) but the adventure AI could use some improvements
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted October 18, 2012 05:36 AM |
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The siege towers are suicidal. You have 40 dwarves defending the town, his 2 black dragons enter flying through the wall, eating away your units, the towers are shooting at the 150 gremlins (not master gremlins) on the other side of the battllefield. Argggggh!
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 18, 2012 05:56 AM |
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Yep, there are a few rules to follow if you want to succeed. Like me going with a tent and an angel in battle, my angel being surrounded by hordes, and one goblin attacking the tent. Tent keeps healing itself for 1 HP while it could save the whole battle if heals the angel, but no.
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Era II mods and utilities
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 18, 2012 09:44 AM |
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The main problem of HoMM 3 AI has been Hero skill-picking. The AI simply builds absolutely CRAPPY heroes, by picking the wrong skills, that is, the skill picking routines suck. Might heroes will end up with Scouting, War Machines, Pathfinding and so on, but without any magic, while magic heroes will end with Eagle Eye, Mysticism, Sorcery and so on, without having an expert Magic schools OR a reasonable might skill.
This way, in a standard free-for-all, the AI will be a problem - if any - only up to a certain point, because once you can cast mass spells, you own the battlefied.
This changes radically on maps with pre-designed heroes or events that make sure, Heroes will have the right skills - in that case the standard AI DOES cast spells effectively and gives you a run for your money.
This point is proven for example with my map Battleground map series, which are basically battle maps with high quality AI heroes that have the right skills and spells. You might say, that every one of these 8 maps is something like a Duel campaign. They should serve to prove the point.
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted October 18, 2012 12:19 PM |
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The problem is more general: some skills are substantailly more useful than others, which are useless. You can't blame AI that it's allowed to try all the options avaliable. Forcing it to always take Earth, Wisdom and Tactics wouldn't solve the problem of unbalanced skills, would it?
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 18, 2012 12:52 PM |
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But that is a problem of the game as such, and you would have to change the whole skill system to balance things, because gaining mass spell capacity with the expert skill level of a magic school is priceless. What should a skill like Scouting give to make up for that?
Also, skill picking is simply a matter of giving each skill a priority value. If the picking process was RANDOM, you'd have a mix of AI heroes, with most having a mix of useful and useless abilities, but the AI prioritizes the not-so-good skills. A magic AI hero will pick Mysticism over Armorer every time.
So for the way the game is, the AI simply does the wrong things.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted October 18, 2012 01:36 PM |
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Wog is better about that, at least there are no 100% useless skills. Scouting's enhancement that lets you encounter things on the road is good and fun for example. But it may also kill the game because an 8th level creature may join you or to the enemy on week one. Warfare unites all machinery skills and becomes quite a handy skill to have, controlling towers is important to shoot enemy catapult (expied towers break it before it can shoot), balista wont shoot at blinded creatures, youll heal whoever you want to... Mystcsism lets you see unbuild spell towers' spells which is very practical if you have limited resources and the fifth guild has magic mirror, also the extra spell points you gain is calculated by percentage so you dont get 4 mana when you have 200 spell points. (what was 3do thinking when they wrote that one), Learning also becomes an ideal skill for town guarding heroes as they start to level up although all they do is wait in town.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 18, 2012 01:41 PM |
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The AI STILL needs the right priorities, though, and a Mysticism/Learning/Eagle Eye hero will STILL suck on the BF.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted October 18, 2012 01:51 PM |
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The worst heroes are the ones that pick navigation on a map without any sea. But i have seen some pretty decent customized AI heroes on the tavern and bought them. So it may be a matter of luck, how do you know between mystiscsm and armorer, AI will never go for armorer?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 18, 2012 01:57 PM |
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I think the main error was to build skills picking system same for AI and human. While scouting, mysticism and eagle eye could potentially offer some advantage in specific situations for human player, they are of no use for AI, a wasted skill. AI should get expert earth/air and natural combat skills as soon as he levels, and never be offered skills which obviously have no use for him. In AI guilds, slow, haste, shield, clone, fire shield and frenzy should always appear or be automatically given via leveling. At least those he knows how to use effectively.
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Era II mods and utilities
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted October 18, 2012 01:57 PM |
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Edited by artu at 13:59, 18 Oct 2012.
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@salamandre: on your Better AI mod, is it possible to disable some skills to AI, like learning, mystics, scouting, tactics?
Edit: actually, that may even be a seperare mod. Better AI is for large maps only, yet this can be good for any map.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 18, 2012 02:03 PM |
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In my Better AI mod, AI heroes are given all combat skills, earth/air + mana refueled every day. Once they have the 6 essential skills, I don't mind if he gets scouting, he is ready to fight.
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Era II mods and utilities
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