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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Heroes 3 rules
Thread: Heroes 3 rules This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT»
Ghost
Ghost


Supreme Hero
Therefore I am
posted December 19, 2012 03:16 PM

Yeah example of Necropolis. Ok Stronghold vs Castle haven't a problem. Why create these objects in editormap? If known't objects must create and give to all team..
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Gidoza
Gidoza


Known Hero
posted December 19, 2012 06:03 PM

Quote:
Consider a simple case:

Both players get same amount of angels from conservatories. Blue is Castle and will upgrade them to Archangels just like that. Red is Dungeon and cannot. => Castle has a huge creature advantage and an extra empty slot in his army that he can use as he wishes. Same goes for fortress with Wyverns. Just the numbers are greater.


I haven't denied this point at all.  Obviously, this situation favors the player with the Castle, which is unfair.

What I AM saying is that...

1.  On pre-made maps where the map is specifically designed for a certain player to have Conservatories as Castle and to benefit from them, this rule makes no sense, because counter-balances can be created for any other town type.

2.  Sometimes on random maps, one player gets abnormally more Conservatories/Hives than the other player, and ends up winning even if they only get non-upgraded Wyverns and Angels.  The rule should *also* be banning this, because it definitely happens.

Conclusion:  The rule is far too broad, and far too narrow, and requires revision.

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krs
krs


Famous Hero
posted December 19, 2012 06:31 PM
Edited by krs at 18:38, 19 Dec 2012.

Quote:
That's what you get when you play closed maps, where nobody steps in your territory early game. You have the time to take conservatories, hives, level Hack to 20 and build level 7 dwelling. Then of course must create rules to avoid specific advantages. Still puzzles me why log specialists are banned while is ok to win with armorer/offense specialists.


Jebus Cross end of week 3 you can/must have all hives and conservatories and with right utopia upgraded level 7! That one is random .

All these like Warmonger hints will be fixed once VCMI gets traction. And HotA gets and English translation. But until then... we need rules. And like pointed out before me log specialists are OP, then come offence/armorer specialists, and then come.... All these hint to a larger problem in H3 the "most balanced" game of all time.

Imho a patch is needed that addressees all these imbalances. Once VCMI is out it can be easily done with a simple mod that has only that purpose. Balance! No level 8 creatures or fishing in the well, but small sensitive balance touches. Like touches to conflux/necro, secondary skills, heroes and random maps.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 19, 2012 06:32 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 18:35, 19 Dec 2012.

Gidoza, those rules are for WCL games, are you playing in? Moreover, rules are made when both players agree, just find someone who plays by your (no) rules.

@krs, by no closed map, I mean a map where you can attack his scouts/town before day 6. No guards between. When you lose all your army to early skirmish, you don't even think at conservatories.
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Ghost
Ghost


Supreme Hero
Therefore I am
posted December 19, 2012 06:34 PM

Ok Angels for 4lvl spells and Wyverns for 3lvl spells.. Tower, Necropolis, Rampart, Inferno, Dungeon and Conflux must 3lvl and disable Artifacts.. Because Implosion is powerful to Angels.. Why rules? What could be more? War of School etc may be in the wrong places. Doesn't accept to be a loser? My guys were forbade my spells and use a wisdom.. I can't use a magic.. Where are they now? Don't care anymore!
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Gidoza
Gidoza


Known Hero
posted December 19, 2012 10:29 PM

Quote:
Gidoza, those rules are for WCL games, are you playing in? Moreover, rules are made when both players agree, just find someone who plays by your (no) rules.


Saying that I'm suggesting playing with no rules is a very, *very* bad misquote of me.  I am in favor of most of the rules provided in the WCL games; what I am doing is pointing out that using them to apply to all situations simply does not work and is ultimately misleading if one expects to achieve balance out of them without considering the situation where the rules are being applied.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 19, 2012 10:48 PM

Find someone who agrees with you then play him, that was my point. Seems to me everyone is convinced his rules are valid, hence arguing does not lead anywhere, as always.
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Ghost
Ghost


Supreme Hero
Therefore I am
posted December 19, 2012 10:49 PM
Edited by Ghost at 22:50, 19 Dec 2012.

Nice to meet you, Gidoza!
@ Sure it's a battle
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SAG
SAG


Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
posted December 20, 2012 08:04 AM

folks,

1) if you ask to change WCL default rules, please write in Rules thread of WCL sub-forum.

2) Log heroes:
- this restriction is present in many leagues
- Maretti has asked to remove this rule, however i haven't seen any other top player asking for this; probably we can make experiment with rules in some WCL sub-tournament (when I will have time to organize it properly)
- for Jebus log heroes probably are less disbalancing than on Balance i guess

3) regarding Cons/Hives upgrading...try to play Jebus vs top player when he plays Castle...6 Archangels on day 8 will smash everything, on day 9 he will have 10 Archangels, etc.
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Abe7
Abe7

Tavern Dweller
posted August 02, 2018 06:20 PM

I like how wcl rules ruined the game. Heroes 3 is all about diversity, and wcl was made to destroy play with magic heroes.

In my games everything is allowed  (few exeptions, but even those can be uplifted)

So i challenge every dumb might heroes to play against me as magic hero.

Rules are:
-2min per turn
-Xl+U
-spider template
-no Necro and Condlux as starting town
-no diplo
-all else allowed

Come and be destroyed.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted August 03, 2018 03:24 AM

So, you substitute your rules to wcl rules. Diplo is understandable but the others, why? Templates are artificially closed maps where human interaction is delayed. XL+U, that means playing vs computer for hours, moreover you are forced to skip necro because the map's size you propose. Then 2 min/turn, meh, looks like you propose every annoying thing so nobody takes the challenge.
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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted August 03, 2018 01:40 PM

Abe7 said:
-2min per turn

I remember to see a MeKick's video with that rule and I even commented that it's quite strange how this disrupts traditional competitive gameplay. The thing is there is not enough time to consolidate your chains and do all the important fights with all tricks, like quiting and spliting units, so game has to be much more elemental and progress is severally compromised
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Abe7
Abe7

Tavern Dweller
posted August 06, 2018 11:24 PM

Actually 2min/turn is quite manageable. I played so many games on GR with 2min. Problems start when the game heats up, usually not before month 3, but even then its manageable.
As for concern about playing vs computer most of the game, there is option "pvp battles"

I will soon start a new thread to explain in detail why these rules are important, you are welcome to join the discussion.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted August 08, 2018 02:28 AM

PvP battles would make you conttrol neutral monsters when the other player attacks them, is that correct? But I have never seen it implemented. How can this be done and what does it requires?
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Abe7
Abe7

Tavern Dweller
posted August 10, 2018 09:03 PM

You need Heroes 3 HD+...before you start the game there is option "pvp battles"...

Its so much better to play. That way u cant take observatory and other things on map easily

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Zaio-Baio
Zaio-Baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 11, 2018 11:24 AM

Abe7 said:
You need Heroes 3 HD+...before you start the game there is option "pvp battles"...

Its so much better to play. That way u cant take observatory and other things on map easily

It takes too much time.

About the rules - ppl put rules, because they want the game to be decided by 1 big final fight. If rules are not present ppl can start teleporting around and doing hit and run and other things that ruin the game. I never needed rules on small maps, but on epic maps its better to have rules if u want a big fight at the end.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted August 11, 2018 12:04 PM

Its your opinion that skirmish tactics ruin the game. War is never about a big fight, but also cutting supplies, limiting map exploration to your opponent, stealing HIS resources before him, ambush and such. Then hit and run is a very avoidable tactic, because it is usually used to punish the one who goes into the unexplored map without being backed. In my opinion, the big fight pattern ruined the game, because it emphasizes few skills, few heroes and few races.    

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 11, 2018 12:15 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 12:37, 11 Aug 2018.

Since I'm not really an online or competitive multiplayer, I just wanna ask what is usually banned in those environments?
I'm guessing Diplomacy (and the 3 heroes that starts with Diplomacy) and maybe Necropolis and Conflux, (If not HotA) but what about Logistics, Offense and Armorer specialists?, and other specialists? Is overpowered stuff like Cloak Of The Undead King, Angel Wings, Town Portal and Dimension Door allowed? What about Armageddon and Implosion?
I generally want to ban as few things as possible, but rather make OP stuff more reasonable.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted August 11, 2018 01:01 PM

I'm so siding with Sal here. People change how the game works with their own rules then complain about design.
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Zaio-Baio
Zaio-Baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 11, 2018 07:45 PM

Galaad said:
I'm so siding with Sal here. People change how the game works with their own rules then complain about design.

Those rules are there to fix the bad design.

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