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| Thread: Which Mod is the best? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted March 31, 2013 08:29 PM |
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As I understand, you say that VCMI is better, because you don't have to learn ERM, but be a professional programmer to modify it as you want.
Is it really the best that you've got? 
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted March 31, 2013 08:50 PM |
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Quote:
As I understand, you say that VCMI is better, because you don't have to learn ERM, but be a professional programmer to modify it as you want.
Is it really the best that you've got?
ERM is assembler-like abracadabra, hard to learn.
And VCMI is written on C++ (I looked sources) and is very clean written, so basics of C++ are easy to understand, than some magic spells from ERM (I also wrote some scripts on ERM).
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Beware, modder! Maybe Macron1 is already benefitting from your work!
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Bersy
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted March 31, 2013 09:57 PM |
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About what you are talking?
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To be honest, scripts and libraries have been written to bypass the functioning of original exe-file.
Script languages are still programming languages and they are used to tweak or modify game for the taste of players.
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Actually in Russia ERM and DLLs are illegal by the means of our laws.
That's not true.
1) DLLs cannot be illegal in principle.
2) WoG is distributed separately without game resources.
3) Russian laws allow to adjust program according to user's personal needs.
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Just no one to punish yet.
Nice joke.
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And VCMI is open-source - so theoretically you don't need any ERMs or DLL at all - just learn Pascal (or on what VCMI is written) and change VCMI directly to match your needs.
You cannot make complex mods using only built-in declarative features of any platform (say, json configs). VCMI tried to implement ERM and will use Lua/Pythoon scripts in the future. So your words have no sense. Same is with matching the needs. You cannot fork the project and have 2 incompatible branches of the game. Versioning kills modding.
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted March 31, 2013 11:43 PM |
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You cannot make complex mods using only built-in declarative features of any platform (say, json configs).
But you can make complex mods using only open sources, so no scripts needed at all.
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You cannot fork the project and have 2 incompatible branches of the game. Versioning kills modding.
1) Correct programming don't kill modding. But adds features.
2) Modding is needed for those, who cannot change sources by diff. causes. If I have source texts, I can by myself maintain parts, that I have changed. Or simply make my own modified DLLs (like for ERA some people do).
For example, I looked to sources and see, than daemon summoning works only on corpses of allies. But I just add new set of IFs and new ability type, and summong will work on corpses of enemy stacks.
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Beware, modder! Maybe Macron1 is already benefitting from your work!
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted April 01, 2013 12:28 AM |
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Edited by Hobbit at 00:28, 01 Apr 2013.
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ERM is assembler-like abracadabra, hard to learn.
There are more modders using ERM than any other programming language.
I don't really like ERM, yet it was first and it's more common. VCMI as a mod platform without ERM would either be unpopular as it is right now or cause a "platform war".
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But you can make complex mods using only open sources, so no scripts needed at all.
But you can make complex mods using reverse engineering, so no open sources needed at all.
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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revolut1oN
Famous Hero
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posted April 01, 2013 01:20 AM |
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I wouldn't say its unpopular since it isnt even finished and people already created a bunch of mods for that.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 01, 2013 01:46 AM |
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Nobody said there won't be wog features...
In beta there aren't and the creators of VCMI don't seem to be too eager to put them there.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 01, 2013 02:13 AM |
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Let them work on, I am 100% sure they will implement interesting options, actually we can easily throw 50% of wog options without big regret. But some are fun.
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Era II mods and utilities
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 01, 2013 02:23 AM |
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Every one has their essential scripts they cant give up and changes from person to person.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 01, 2013 02:28 AM |
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True but I suppose there will be a way to translate erm to whatever they use. I just hope they have the strength and patience to release a full modable platform, not just a configuration from which you have to bang your head and find yourself the codes to do this or that.
This was wog team strength, not only they released one of the best documented technical manual ever (for the one who has a bit of patience and faith), but also they spent some years to show how is done, which made the task of programming way easier for next generation.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted April 01, 2013 03:00 AM |
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I wouldn't say its unpopular since it isnt even finished
Warmonger said it won't be finished since it's open source.
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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Bersy
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted April 01, 2013 10:29 AM |
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2) Modding is needed for those, who cannot change sources by diff. causes. If I have source texts, I can by myself maintain parts, that I have changed. Or simply make my own modified DLLs (like for ERA some people do).
For example, I looked to sources and see, than daemon summoning works only on corpses of allies. But I just add new set of IFs and new ability type, and summong will work on corpses of enemy stacks.
So every modder has to distribute his own VCMI binaries? That's really awful! And VCMI is cross platform, DLLs exist only in Windows world (.so files in Linux).
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted April 01, 2013 10:52 AM |
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You forget that VCMI is open project so everybody can join and his own stuff.
Anyway, this thread is about the best existing mod, not any hypothetical mods in the future 
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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revolut1oN
Famous Hero
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posted April 01, 2013 12:17 PM |
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Quote:
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I wouldn't say its unpopular since it isnt even finished
Warmonger said it won't be finished since it's open source.
Finished means playable with all basic features of original H3 - version 1.0 of VCMI comes to my mind.
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Bersy
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted April 01, 2013 08:07 PM |
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You forget that VCMI is open project so everybody can join and his own stuff.
You forget that making a mod is not the same as joining the C++ team, implementing a universal feature (not only for this particular mod) which will be used by savings system, multilayer, AI, json configs, etc., releasing new VCMI version, spreading this version among players and only then allowing players to enjoy the mod.
That's not an everyday modding at all, you know that better then me. Everyday modding is adding stuff like scripts, modules, configs and resources which can be used by players immediately and more or less safely.
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Dr_Zomboss
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 03, 2013 09:16 AM |
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted April 03, 2013 09:28 AM |
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Quote:
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You forget that VCMI is open project so everybody can join and his own stuff.
You forget that making a mod is not the same as joining the C++ team, implementing a universal feature (not only for this particular mod) which will be used by savings system, multilayer, AI, json configs, etc., releasing new VCMI version, spreading this version among players and only then allowing players to enjoy the mod.
That's not an everyday modding at all, you know that better then me. Everyday modding is adding stuff like scripts, modules, configs and resources which can be used by players immediately and more or less safely.
Who is banning you to add configs for your parts of modification of the code or to load modified libraries?
Your scripts emerged because of lack of HEROES 3 sources as unavoidable measure.
But now you can add as many libraries as you want, and change almost everything in the gaming process. It's more than scripts can give you.
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Beware, modder! Maybe Macron1 is already benefitting from your work!
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 03, 2013 10:22 AM |
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I think is premature to say now scripts this, scripts that, no need or need. No doubt that VCMI will be given erm compatibility and support, in order to be able to play old maps and campaigns, and from there each one will choose what is suits him best. Saying that will need no scripts makes no sense, as you can't know what modders wish to achieve, for now all you look to is placing dwellings in town.
What about real time actions, like in battle at x:y:z, on second round, if hero is x and if stack is y, increase speed of the stack by z, can this be done with a json config or needs something more advanced? Just asking.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Bersy
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted April 03, 2013 02:56 PM |
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Val, don't waste the time. This guy definitely does not understand what he is talking about. VCMI has no plugin system and no plans for it.
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revolut1oN
Famous Hero
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posted April 03, 2013 03:03 PM |
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Obviously VCMI should be ERM-compatible. That's great feature and it would be a shame if it wasn't implemented.
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