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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: Feedback fan made almost done give or take
Thread: Feedback fan made almost done give or take
castiel_789
castiel_789


Adventuring Hero
posted March 19, 2013 12:43 AM
Edited by castiel_789 at 02:11, 04 Apr 2013.

If you have any feedback -- Sylvan - Academy - Fortress line up spoiler

Had a little bit of time to write? Let's try to talk about heroes 6 in a constructive manner. Why? Because this game was a childhood banger and I always saw it as a game
That should be among the Diablo and such. They are good stuff about this game and I always loved this series. Love minotaur the naga and angel grapic of 2012 on Facebook.


Let's start first with faction

After some fight we realized level 4 faction ability take time or if you prefer they were too much rank prior to reaching 4 so we thought of something:

First we broke the faction in categories:

Also defender could be seen has counter-attack. Not a fan of slowing turtle defender but more of a dynamic defender especially for battle speed



So Might-magic-mix represents army damage composition
Keep in mind that does not affect might or magic affinity of faction they can all still use magic and might or whatever system only unit damage type (might attack, magic attack)

Rush-strategic-defender represents how quick the damage can be dished. So from left to right : high damage dish = lower charge signature to quick charge signature
(hard to explain this one ex : in 10 turn left faction would deal more damage but on the opposite in 10 turn right faction can withstand more damage)


Then for faction ability and signature here how it works you get 3 level of faction ability (two had trouble with that) and one new bar of signature could be at the bottom
and look kinda like an experience bar. When fully charged activate automatically (this way faster, doesn't slow down and more intuitive but you could also make it manual)

Example



Skill system :
Mastery

This forum member (Xerox) made interesting proposition: Thread

- Fury (if you call it rage become confusing) is implemented has a might resource act like mana but is generated by exchanging blow and is used to
cast might ability (could start at half the pool to not disadvantage might vs. magic)

- Arcane ward should be moved from prime to paragon. Paragon gets a new skill : Commander 1-2-3 (increase the resource generation or increase pool)

- Realm gets combined with diplomat, enlightenment, mentoring, logistic, snatch and path finding. This school is considered as a new categories renamed adventure.
Each 2 level you get beside your regular level up point an adventure point witch you can spend in this category only.

- All magic mastery are removed and replaced by one single mastery which is shown in the picture (same goes for might) still have to invest 3 point but affect all magic.
Perk are added you can see 4 but could be more. Example is given below with inferno faction.

School



Might

Paragon :
- Commander 1-2-3
- Arcane ward 1-2-3

Tactic :
-Deceiving tactic (blood): The hero witch engage enemy heroes get a first blow. Heroic strike used on a random creature.
Alternative one random stack is stunned acting last in the first round.


Guardian or Terrain study (new school still thinking about this one) -- For second option alter terrain or give bonus depending on terrain

Warcries :
- Battle Orders (blood): Order an enemy to perform a circular strike. Damage depend on heroes might power or 50% stack power

- Favored enemy (blood): heroes designate a enemy stack for x turn. Any creatures attacking it gets a small boost to stats for 1 turn (Boost might be like benediction in 5).
Alternative - any stack attacking the favored enemy grant x might power to heroes for x turn starting from the next obviously.  

- Banshee howl

- Promotion or Elite guard (Tears): Unit become more effective when protecting a stack. (affect lifeguard membrane, shieldguard, shielded, Hollow bone, dead flesh, Baleful gaze, etc)

Warfare :
- Defensive formation


Magic (will add more)

Fire school add : Sacrifice, Flame pillar, Fire ring

Dark school : Death grasp (Damage/ single hit lower moral) , Hand of death (Damage/ jump to 3 other enemy stack in the following 3 turn lower moral)

Water school :

Light school :

Prime school :

Earth school : Disintegrate

Air school : Tornado


All the change were done taking into consideration that a hero has 120 possible choice and repetition should be minimized

Before : Might Hero (66 Might / 51 to 56 Magic) After : Might Hero (17 adventure / 55 Might / 44 to 48 Magic) Mastery was taken into consideration has still to be picked one time (3 point).

Before : Magic Hero (48 Might / 76 to 80 Magic) After: Magic Hero (17 adventure / 38 Might / 61 to 65 Magic) New spell not added cause tiers are not defined. Since Magic user will have them for sure you can just add it up

Specialization

- Not much except maybe change kennel master from a growth boost to increase in stat


Random

- Neutral ( Archmage -- the one in heroes 2, Sea monster -- devour, Frenzied Gnasher, Gargoyle, Mantis, Nomad, Pirate, Mummy, Troll, Troglodyte, Medusa, Death knight, Monk, Ogre mage, Goblin Knight, Nightmare, Enchanter, Sharpshooter, Rust Dragon, Azure Dragon, Halfling ;_; ( )

- Adventure map buildings: (Den of Thieves, Seer Hut -- give random quest in exchange for artifact or experience, Sphinx, Water Wheel, Windmill, Dragon Utopia -- dragon inside has neutral fight for reward, Hut of the Magi & Eye of the Magi, Cover of Darkness

- (Resurrection altar / wall breaker / hall of raiders / pile of skull / war tent) are good ideas


Faction list (faction listed here is an example of previous comment some tweak were made to help define the strategy)

Sanctuary : it feels well done and I love the strategy this faction brings. The Kirin is awesome and love the trail ability give good positioning option. spring spirit
spirit bond create good option. Kenshi, Kappa rocks. The water school and the faction go together perfectly.
Necro (fate spinner best thing ever)
Haven (Glory rocks)
Stronghold are OK too (will add more)


Other Faction
Fortress
Academy
Sylvan
Dungeon



Inferno

Hero perks :
Inferno Perks
Inferno line-up

Level 1 : Gate core
Level 2 : Gate core or elite
Level 3 : Gate core , elite or champion
Signature : Arch devil summoned to the field

Arch devil ability : Grim rim : can absorb dead unit "ally & enemy" or gated and summoned unit to increase power doesn't consume action (doesn't work on undead or mechanical stackable up
to 3 time) Teleport. Large. First fallen : when joining the battlefield troop get a bonus to critical chance and critical damage)
Astral presence : The power of the summoner (inferno hero) determine the strength of this unit
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fiend - Archfiend
When a soul departs in the afterlife and is not at peace whit the process it makes a perfect choice for inferno. The chaos resulting from the transition is easy to twist and result in the pawn of their army

Succubus
idem

Cerberus
idem
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chaos fiend
All the pain felt in Sheogh is a tool for Ur gash who see it as a perfect weapon to extract is hatred. An armor was created to imprison parts of it resulting in the chaos fiend. The chaos fiend where also created to command the fiend
Hatred : At the start of the battle all the hatred on both side is used to bolster their rank (same has breeder 20%)
Darkness call : Summon a stack of fiend or archfiend (3 turn cool down)
large creature

Gog - Magog
Mobile shooter
mana leach
Rage fire : shoot a ball of fire witch detonate on contact (100% damage main target and creature surrounding target get a 25% damage)

Juggernaut was great (or abadon for alternative)
Part of the elite in Sheogh these demon have mastered the art of destruction. In their wake only doom remains.
Many have seen battle where at the entrance of those beasts in a battle soldiers felt the urge to lay their weapon to the ground knowing that the end was near.
Organic armor
taunting presence
unstoppable charge
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pit lord
idem


(Friend of mine love inferno personally i think mechanic is more important but he love demon so much weirdo guess he never heard of paradise)


Other perks  

Dungeon : Corrupted soil
Sylvan : Nature wrath

Multiplayer

- Crazy idea : Boss is placed in front of main castle you get to play 7 day without waiting then you wait for others and so on (or could be real time or simultaneous) Not sure about the real time but boss idea would add challenge

- Duel : New ladder with ranked duel were you may win prize (prize have a probability and are determined by rank. May be 1 of 50 unique dynasty weapon and customization for mount, hero or army) Some people may not participate in rank duel so you give duel point. Duel points are refilled every month for example and you have possibility to trade other players that don�t use them. So for duel point you trade dynasty weapon or customization with dynasty weapon valuing more. So when dueling you will get common item most of the time witch you trade to get more point in return for a chance to get the better thing.

- Achievement gives access to 5 unique dynasty weapon and also customization

- New dynasty weapon : Sword of the Gods, Moonblade, Thunder Hammer, Bow of the Elf King, Bull Rune Battleaxe, Sword of Judjement, Sword of Hellfire, Ogre's Club of Havoc)


Blue = Link duuh

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted March 21, 2013 01:39 PM

Faction abilities don't get used that much? I beg to differ

I think that dungeon and sylvan rate as rush though it is possible that sylvan may not turn out like H5. Still, dungeon is all about dealing as much magical or might damage as possible. And academy should probably be inbetween if not a staller. In Ashan it is the 'pure' magic faction so it should probably have equal chances of pure destruction, healing or attrition warfare.

But anyway H6 skill categorization mostly sucked and seeing as it's not going to change we should probably look into the future.

Not sure I'd want to see bosses again, I'd much rather spend resources on neutrals.. But if they return we might as well make a boss mode in duels. That would be fun. And dynasty weapons plain sucked, most horrible feature implementation I have seen in a long time.
____________
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

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castiel_789
castiel_789


Adventuring Hero
posted March 21, 2013 04:34 PM

Quote:
Faction abilities don't get used that much? I beg to differ


Used wrong phrase I wanted to refer to level 4 . But anyhow i understand that some of you might find it already good the way it is.

Quote:
I think that dungeon and sylvan rate as rush though it is possible that sylvan may not turn out like H5.


You'll find it funny but i agree with you even if we don't know what those faction will do we were used to that somehow. One day tough i was daydreaming in class of a rushing academy. It looked like an explosion of firework on the battlefield wake up swimming in saliva . Next quote also for those wild ideas

Quote:
We should probably look into the future


You my friend are very smart just for saying that and I'm now sure that your wallet has no hole.

Quote:
And dynasty weapons plain sucked


I like them cause they feel like some extra ability or perk. Opinion, opinion so much of this and yet we almost all agree that heroes 3 was a good game .


If you have more feedback? Reply helped me a lot illustration wise.

Can i ask you if you don't mind witch faction you play the most?

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted March 21, 2013 04:55 PM
Edited by Elvin at 16:56, 21 Mar 2013.

Actually some factions can hit lvl 4 racial every other turn or sometimes two turns in a row. Problem is, the way this game is made not just anyone can do that.. For instance necro gauge fills by percentage of dead units while sanctuary depends on the number of attacks, which can be influenced by morale. Same goes for stronghold. I am not suggesting that necro should be able to use necromancy more often but you see what I mean.. Some factions can manipulate them to trigger more often and others pretty much rely on luck.

A rushing academy would be fun indeed. In H5 it was my favourite faction because it had so much potential. Warmachines, might with buffs, defensive, rushing..

My wallet does not have holes but it is not exactly brimming with gold

Dynasty weapons were badly designed. Yes they were fun to play but 1) They were only available online which more or less says screw you to offline players. 2) The balance was off. 3) You could switch DW during a game, glad they changed that. 4) If you had levelled them you would start a map with them at lvl 5 - No sense of progression, far too easy creeping. 5) Those who got collector's edition had stronger DW. 6) Playing with dynasty bonuses requires both opponents to be of a similar level or else one of them has a great advantage in DW or traits.

So in essence they were mostly designed for single player with a design that pretty much forbids their use in multiplayer in most cases. Since they went to the trouble of making them, they should make sure to make them work in both single and multiplayer. Otherwise they serve as an example of wasted resources that could have been spent elsewhere.

PS I mostly play stronghold, sanctuary and inferno
____________
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

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castiel_789
castiel_789


Adventuring Hero
posted March 21, 2013 05:15 PM

-- Update --

Quote:
that sylvan may not turn out like H5


Just read the compendium you seem to have a good guess there


Funny thing also is that you get some clue about other faction line-up
Not sure if posted somewhere but what the heck. Don't know the tiers just listing

Sylvan :
archers and Druids
Treants
Dryads
the Hunters, the Blade Dancers
Also there a mention of shape shifting ability for hero

Academy :
Golems and Titans
Rakshasa
Genie (this one is based on picture)

Fortress :
Delvers or dwarf shielded
Crossbows unit of some kind
engineers and sappers
Valkyrie

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castiel_789
castiel_789


Adventuring Hero
posted March 22, 2013 04:39 AM

Interesting. I see what you mean about easy creeping and unbalanced. Last i played it took me like one game to level up one dynasty to level 4 it seem it take more time now (not sure how much longer)

I always thought DW would bring more player to the game. It seem that they should separate dynasty weapon into single player and multiplayer for a starter. I think i should read on DW trait and ability.

Academy rule I want to be the Seventh Dragon.

You play multiplayer with inferno? and if yes are they competitive now.

Would try out myself but only have 48h hours left of game time and every minute counts. My name is Castiel and i have a problem

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted March 22, 2013 11:47 AM

The quick solution to Dynasty weapons in multiplayer is to add them as plain weapons on those maps, just like any ordinary artifact. Of course they are then static (in other words, they do not grow in experience in the course of the multiplayer game), with a random level - and the level determines artifact quality; level 1 would make it a minor artifact, level 5 would make it a relic.

Then you don't have the unbalance between players due to possible different starting levels of Dynasty weapons and access (or not) to specific ones, you then only have the random distribution like with any other artifact.

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castiel_789
castiel_789


Adventuring Hero
posted March 22, 2013 08:32 PM

Nice approach. I see what you want to do. Started to read on DW and I see that some may be linked to build.

Example :  
Will of Urgash :
- Increases Magic Power (Fire) by <5> and reduces mana cost of Fire spells by <10>%
- Damage (Fire) dealt by the Hero cannot be healed

This one would suit a fire build and would be preferred by inferno magic add also luck.
Know if they are random on the map it would be hard to plan your build if you try to match DW

Maybe you like your solution the way it is but i still would like to hear (curious in the good sense) if you have any thought on how you would tackle that?




____________
People have the solution most of the time -- they just need to think more about it

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted March 22, 2013 08:55 PM

What you see in the official site is just concept art and generally serves as inspiration for what is to come. It does not mean that a future lineup will be like this but it will doubtlessly be inspired by it.

About DW. It would be much fairer if the weapon's level scaled with your hero, for instance gain a level per 5 hero levels. The actual xp it requires is humongous and if you have already maxed it the weapon starts maxed. That is why I consider DW poorly designed. I would actually like them as random artifacts though

Inferno is pretty alright as it is Not as easy to creep as others but it works fine in final battles.
____________
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

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castiel_789
castiel_789


Adventuring Hero
posted March 23, 2013 03:04 AM
Edited by castiel_789 at 06:26, 26 Mar 2013.

OK i thought of something. Well actually i thought of something in the line of your scaling idea Elvin & my friend witch really like your idea Maurice had something too.


Option 1) My friend thinks that you should still choose DW they start at level 1 and then on start of map you generate 4 shard distributed randomly & like artifact guarded. Each shard give you a level of dynasty weapon.

Advantage : easy to keep your level on single player and on multiplayer shard kick in
Disadvantage : still random one could get better positioning over others  


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Option 2) What i was thinking you still choose DW but they start at level 1 (most level 1 trait perk are OK to start balance wise) then every faction get a building where you have to buy the rest of your level 2 to 5 by let's say enchanting the weapon or blacksmith.  

Advantage : Favor the accessible for everyone but the more you play the more you get the edge by mastering management (easy to learn, hard to master)
Disadvantage : hard to split actual DW unless you also take out blacksmith feature from single player.



Any thought?

On a side note here a question on top of that question

What would you think if DW Arachne & Blade of binding or thunder staff & sword of the pirate king where only for single play? Help to put in perspective

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted March 25, 2013 12:14 PM

Quote:
- My friend thinks that you should still choose DW they start at level 1 and then on start of map you generate 4 shard distributed randomly & like artifact guarded. Each shard give you a level of dynasty weapon.

Advantage : easy to keep your level on single player and on multiplayer shard kick in
Disadvantage : still random one could get better positioning over others
 

A very serious disadvantage is that it's likely that shards end up with different factions. Getting them all together might be extremely hard and may actually require you to destroy all your enemies before you can collect them all - at which point you have won the game anyway.

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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted March 25, 2013 04:05 PM

1 shard gives 1up level to dynasty weapon, no?
For example on my map I would put 1 shard week 1 , 2 shards week 2 and last shard will be in underground where there are 2 dragon topes which is week 3. Earliest meet with enemy is end of week3 early week4. I think it will be super cool. My only concern is that DW will allow the hero to fight more guards and I already hit lvl 30 so if I want to keep challange I need lvl 35 hero cap.....:/

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castiel_789
castiel_789


Adventuring Hero
posted March 25, 2013 05:01 PM
Edited by castiel_789 at 17:20, 25 Mar 2013.

Quote:
A very serious disadvantage is that it's likely that shards end up with different factions.


We could fix that by binding it to the player. For example player 1 get blue shard that he is the only one to see and collect. Player 2 get red shard he's the only one to see and he's the only one able to collect.

This way you're sure to get your shard.  

Quote:
My only concern is that DW will allow the hero to fight more guards and I already hit lvl 30 ...


Not sure if it would change that much the way you reach level 30. But if that the case (I was for a tougher and more diverse variety of neutral too in feedback above) we could make shard generate a battle when you collect. That battle would act like arena without stat bonus. So you could get a tears or blood bonus as a result.

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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted March 25, 2013 06:39 PM
Edited by natalka at 18:45, 25 Mar 2013.

No! My point is that having DW makes creeping easier so to keep challange I will increase power(numbers) of the guards on nearly whole map so heroes will be able to reach lvl 35 ....

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castiel_789
castiel_789


Adventuring Hero
posted March 26, 2013 06:28 AM
Edited by castiel_789 at 06:29, 26 Mar 2013.

Quote:
No! My point is that having DW makes creeping easier so to keep challange I will increase power(numbers) of the guards on nearly whole map so heroes will be able to reach lvl 35 ....


Hmmm heumm aahhhhh OK i understand you want to buff up neutral & at the same time raise the level cap. Since the increase yield more experience that why you want to raise the level cap.
At the same time by buffing neutral you're expecting a reduce in creeping effectiveness. Did i get it right this time ?


Quote:
you can collect them all - at which point you have won the game anyway.


I thought off that but my friend like option 1 for the randomness it bring. I'm more for the option 2 witch would not force you to search & also imply some strategy. An extra building means more management decision. I was thinking about levels like a mage guild but that didn't make much sense and brought much problem. The way i see it is you build blacksmith then you are ready for first upgrade.

Ex :
Level 2 weapon require : 15k gold, 5 crystal, 5 wood & 5 ore. Level 3 : 35k gold, 15 crystal, 10 wood, 10 ore. Level 4 : 75k Gold, 25 crystal, 15 wood, 15 ore. Level 5 : 150k gold, 50 crystal, 20 wood, 20 ore.

The number are random just to give idea also you have more resource by the end so should spread accordingly. Might been to drastic with the example but you get the idea.




Another idea brought was blacksmith create a new resource every week or month : Thallanite. That resource is used for upgrade. Again many variant for this one will not list might make you sleep.

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