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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: Savage Monsters and Diplomacy
Thread: Savage Monsters and Diplomacy
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted May 13, 2013 08:07 AM

Savage Monsters and Diplomacy

Hy,

I installed Era 2.4 and as I understand all monsters are set to savage, (even some who where marked as Complaint change the upgraded version and don't join) so why I'm I allways reciving the fantastic oportunity to learn Diplomacy?

Should the script that turns monsters to savage disable the skill or something?

Thank you

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted May 13, 2013 09:51 AM

Diplomacy is not only about monsters, is also about the cost of surrendering and OTHER things as prices etc. That's why is not disabled.
____________
Era II mods and utilities

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majaczek
majaczek


Supreme Hero
Work at Magic Dimmension
posted May 14, 2013 01:37 AM

What other things?
I remember only joiners, and surrender cost...

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted May 14, 2013 01:41 AM

You can visit libraries of enlightenment at an earlier level.

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Doomsheep
Doomsheep

Tavern Dweller
posted May 14, 2013 02:38 AM

Is there anyway to make the monsters not turn savage? i like this script. but i love diplo more

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted May 14, 2013 02:54 AM

Which script was that?

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Bloodsucker
Bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted May 14, 2013 07:20 AM
Edited by Bloodsucker at 09:08, 14 May 2013.

Neutral Stack Size

Quote:
Which script was that?


It is in the wog options/map options and enchantements/neutral units stack size and I believe is necessary on the Karmic Battles.

Quote:
Is there anyway to make the monsters not turn savage? i like this script. but i love diplo more.


I loved Diplomacy the first times I played the WoG version but I have to agree with Valery that colecting monsters with Diplomacy is not for WoG.
Not with commanders, henchman, enhanced skills or second henchman, Emerald Towers, Palaces of Dreams, Altars of Transformation, Castle Upgrading and all the stuff to enhance an hero.

A bit like on 4, sometimes my main army doesn't look so good and that is a mistake.
Because I've got something like 15 unbelivable Azure Dragons that give Prayer, Haste, Shield  or Attacks Twice to my army and have something like Ages or Charge and reduce casting spell costs, along with them have about 120 sprites with more then 1000 Hps, more then 200 of damage and the velocity of a Phoenix and a commander with all skills,  the Boots of Haste, the Elm of Immortality and the Sword of Swiftness, who has then for more then 1000 battles.
But all you can see is an hero with a lot of primes, a bunch of Supreme Arcangels and tons of ghosts...

If you miss Diplomacy (has I do), I recomend to select the "Choose Commander Class" and buy a Succubus to your main hero.
After a while you will be hable to win all rogues traps with all your leaser heros, just with the unwanted troops.
And when your main hero and 'helpers' are strong enough, 20% of a neutral army will win the fight against the other 80, so you can basicly attack anything and expect to win.
Don't forget, joiners came to you at basic level but neutral oponents will not be basic if the 'neutrals stacks gain experience' option is selected.
So, you will have to be hable to give your troops a bonus that's better then four times all the bonus your neutral oponents may have.


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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted May 14, 2013 09:57 AM

There is only one script which sets monsters aggressiveness. If you want diplomacy to work, just disable that option. WoG is made from selectable options.
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Era II mods and utilities

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted May 14, 2013 11:18 AM
Edited by artu at 11:20, 14 May 2013.

Quote:
Is there anyway to make the monsters not turn savage? i like this script. but i love diplo more


I haven't tested this but in theory opening the script with ERM editor and deleting line 573 should do it:

!!MOv1/v2/v3&y1>=0:R10/1; [Set all monster stacks to Savage]

Things may get unbalanced though, I recommend taking a back-up. Location of script file in Era 2 is:

Era 2/Mods/Wog/Data/s/21 wog - neutral units

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Bloodsucker
Bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted May 14, 2013 11:29 AM

Options

Quote:
There is only one script which sets monsters aggressiveness. If you want diplomacy to work, just disable that option. WoG is made from selectable options.



Don't take this the wrong way but: that's why on Era the maps/mods usually came with 'load only these files'?

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted May 14, 2013 11:32 AM

Because some mods are not compatible with wog options, given that the number of variables and timers are limited. So that text file ensures that the mod only loads necessary files to run.
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Era II mods and utilities

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Bloodsucker
Bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted May 14, 2013 11:41 AM

Quote:
Because some mods are not compatible with wog options, given that the number of variables and timers are limited. So that text file ensures that the mod only loads necessary files to run.



And basicly this results on less control for the player and more for the map maker.
I'm not desagreeing with the posture, just saying I some how detect a change of philosophy, maybe not clear, between WoG and Era.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted May 14, 2013 11:44 AM

No. WoG 3.58 used scripts as timed events build directly into map, and map was set to "not wogify". The result is 100% same, but era is much more versatile and easy to use.
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Doomsheep
Doomsheep

Tavern Dweller
posted May 14, 2013 10:35 PM
Edited by Doomsheep at 22:36, 14 May 2013.




I loved Diplomacy the first times I played the WoG version but I have to agree with Valery that colecting monsters with Diplomacy is not for WoG.
Not with commanders, henchman, enhanced skills or second henchman, Emerald Towers, Palaces of Dreams, Altars of Transformation, Castle Upgrading and all the stuff to enhance an hero.

A bit like on 4, sometimes my main army doesn't look so good and that is a mistake.
Because I've got something like 15 unbelivable Azure Dragons that give Prayer, Haste, Shield  or Attacks Twice to my army and have something like Ages or Charge and reduce casting spell costs, along with them have about 120 sprites with more then 1000 Hps, more then 200 of damage and the velocity of a Phoenix and a commander with all skills,  the Boots of Haste, the Elm of Immortality and the Sword of Swiftness, who has then for more then 1000 battles.
But all you can see is an hero with a lot of primes, a bunch of Supreme Arcangels and tons of ghosts...

If you miss Diplomacy (has I do), I recomend to select the "Choose Commander Class" and buy a Succubus to your main hero.
After a while you will be hable to win all rogues traps with all your leaser heros, just with the unwanted troops.
And when your main hero and 'helpers' are strong enough, 20% of a neutral army will win the fight against the other 80, so you can basicly attack anything and expect to win.
Don't forget, joiners came to you at basic level but neutral oponents will not be basic if the 'neutrals stacks gain experience' option is selected.
So, you will have to be hable to give your troops a bonus that's better then four times all the bonus your neutral oponents may have.




Good idea ill  a mass a army of heroes with succubus

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Bloodsucker
Bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted May 15, 2013 09:31 AM
Edited by Bloodsucker at 09:43, 15 May 2013.

mass a army of heroes with succubus





Good idea ill  a mass a army of heroes with succubus


I believe you didn't payed attention when said - to your main hero.

As a lot of WoG things Sucubbus tend to lose interrest when they are to many - all those creatures min that all that experience was lost.

I would instead try to buy a Necro Hero (with a Soul Eater) and a brute to someone. I use Necro to attack things that usually have a lot of weak creatures like abandon mines and Imp Caches, to raise an army of skeletons for free and the brute to attack naga banks, grffin conservatories and sometimes even Dragon Utopias (if the Dragons I could take from there aren't enough), to get all the experience and some money.

When buying heros I usualy change only good and neutral commanders, Necros need the Soul Eaters and having the oportunity to chose between weak troops (skeletons or liches if you managed to assemble the Cloak), 50% of experience converted to money and up to 20% of the oponents army gives me a lot of strategical options.

If you are playing with the Altar of Transformation option on, try to find one. It is completly diferent to colect a lot of troups of the same levels with and without them.
With one of those you can, for instance, turn all level 5 you colect to liches and arm the Necro, or transform all dragons taken from utopias to angels and Arcangels and join then with angels from Griffin Conservatories, getting 1 or 2 stronger slots instead of several weak.
So, with one Altar Succubus will continue to be your best bet but without it Brutes will become more and more usefull (and they are getting the full experience)...

Try both ways and you will notice the diference.

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hippox89
hippox89


Famous Hero
posted September 29, 2013 12:45 AM
Edited by hippox89 at 00:47, 29 Sep 2013.

Diplomacy also affect if monsters will flee or not. It affects charisma. Ch = Power_Factor + Diplomacy_Level + Sympathy.

So even with savage monsters, diplomacy is very useful or even overpowered, if you will.

If a ERA script also changed monsters to never flee than it still be useful enough. Surrender cost and enlightenment.

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