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nybbas
Tavern Dweller
Flipmode Player
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posted June 09, 2013 11:50 AM |
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Biggest Exploit
What is the biggest and best exploit in the game? (Heroes 3 Complete Edition)
I think the running would be between:
Diplomacy / Mass Joining
Necro Skelly Stacking
Others I'm sure I'm forgetting.
What's your favorite hotseat exploder?
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b0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted June 09, 2013 06:48 PM |
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Edited by b0rsuk at 18:56, 09 Jun 2013.
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Hero chaining. It's logic-defying, an army can travel a country in a single turn. It also abuses time artifacts inherent in A/B/A/B turn-based games.
Pit Lord demon farming is an exploit. I'm pretty sure it was meant as a way to mitigate losses. But players with extreme patience can grind armies stronger than Necromancer's. I'm not talking about merely transforming your natural losses into demons. I mean trying to lose some imps (or other weak crap) in each battle so you can demonize them.
Demon farming transforms one of weakest factions into the strongest factions on sufficiently big maps, so yes it's a significant exploit.
Suicide bombing
Exploits the fact that efficiency of direct damage spells is not related at all to army size. A level20 warlock can attack with 1 black/gold dragon, cast Armageddon, and surrender. Attacker loses small amount of gold, much less than the defender. Neither side gains experience. The tactic exists in many other forms, for example if you have enough gold (and HeroesIII is generous when it comes to gold income) you can cause losses without any risk to yourself by spending surplus gold on kamikaze spellcasters.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo RSA Animate - Smile or die
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Nybbas
Tavern Dweller
Flipmode Player
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posted June 09, 2013 06:54 PM |
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Edited by Nybbas at 18:55, 09 Jun 2013.
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Quote:
Demon farming transforms one of weakest factions into the strongest factions on sufficiently big maps, so yes it's a significant exploit.
Compared to normal game play I can see where this strategy can amass a huge stack of demons. But comparatively I think other exploits could topple it, what's 40-50 demons in the long run?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted June 09, 2013 06:58 PM |
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The only exploits I can think of are those actions against which AI has no counter, as berserk, force field and the biggest of all: the reload.
The others as diplo, demons farming, chain, are essentially used in MP, and if both players agree, they are not exploits, but ways to optimize a game length. Of course demons farming is an inferno special feature and part of its complexity, therefore you can't state it is weak faction then say that its special ability is an exploit.
Suicide bomber (hit&run) could be an exploit vs inexperienced players, but is easily countered, especially by heroes chain.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted June 09, 2013 07:02 PM |
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40-50 Demons?  That is way too low an estimate for "the long run".
Quote:
Pit Lord demon farming is an exploit. [...] players with extreme patience can grind armies stronger than Necromancer's.
How? The amount of units summoned is dependent of hp and number, which means for low level units, you get 6 skeleton's pr. demon, while you only need a rate of 5 skeletons pr. demon to have a stronger force.
Since lower level units are more numerous than higher level ones, I can't see how in a random map, demon farming exceeds skeleton harvest in power.
If that doesn't convince you, then include stuff like the cloak and you get 1 lich for each time your opponent gets 1 demon.
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Living time backwards
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted June 09, 2013 07:05 PM |
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Demon farming requires extreme micromanagement, and is rather hard to achieve on random maps. I would say that the player who can do it properly deserves to win. But today MP games end before week 3, so demon farming is rarely a viable option, not enough fodders in such short time.
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Era II mods and utilities
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b0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted June 09, 2013 07:11 PM |
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Edited by b0rsuk at 19:16, 09 Jun 2013.
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I'm not saying Pit Lord's ability is an exploit. I'm saying that the optimal use of it is an exploit. It requires that you play in an unnatural way - try to have level1-3 losses in each battle, ideally by carefully splitting imp stack with another hero.
Similarly, Wraith's ability is not an exploit. But suicide attacks with 5 wraiths are cheap. It exploits the fact effectiveness of Wraith MP drain doesn't depend on Wraith stack size. Unlike Mighty Gorgon.
You can completely block a shore with ships. It's normally not a problem, but on certain maps with bottlenecks it is gamebreaking. And, never forget, stupid. For some reason a land army attacking a ship can destroy a whole ship in a single move. But an army on a ship can't destroy an empty ship, even with cannons (cannonballs are visible on Heroes3 combat maps). This exploits a design oversight.
Quote:
How? The amount of units summoned is dependent of hp and number, which means for low level units, you get 6 skeleton's pr. demon,
while you only need a rate of 5 skeletons pr. demon to have a stronger force.
Don't forget you can make a demon out of 4 halberdiers, but can only raise 1 skeleton out of 1 demon. Skeleton Transformer is also not perfectly efficient. A player who engages in extreme micromanagement can turn units into demons more efficiently.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo RSA Animate - Smile or die
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted June 09, 2013 07:24 PM |
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You can also dig holes on shore, so none will be able to land, don't know why they coded holes as impassable for anchor. Anyway, is better than H2 where you could block teleporters with a scout, at least this issue was fixed.
I can't remember if I ever saw someone winning a game due to demons farming(except my wog map tew4, built around this feature). Requires extremely long game, XL map and a very lazy opponent.
btw, you have a spell to remove empty ships in H3. AI doesn't know how to use it.
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Era II mods and utilities
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted June 09, 2013 07:31 PM |
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Maybe not "due to", but certainly demonstrates how powerful demon farming, in theory, can be: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm-y2b48Y3k&list=UU4IgOhZ4UIP7PUvEEpQKj3Q&index=3&feature=plcp
(You've probably seen the video before).
Edit: Killing own troops for more troops and necro draining mana are both things I find to be in the spirit of the two towns. Inferno is evil and Necro is very scary in concept, I think those features matches this concept.
So I don't find such gameplay being encouraged as unnatural.
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Living time backwards
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted June 09, 2013 07:47 PM |
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Yeas, I know that game. Month 2 week 4, is exceptional length for a MP game but good for demon farming.
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Era II mods and utilities
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b0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted June 09, 2013 07:52 PM |
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I remember the Restoration of Erathia campaign scenario where you have 3 or so months to conquer a Castle with Inferno. It was quite difficult back when I didn't know the game. Has anyone tried crushing the knight with demon farming ?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo RSA Animate - Smile or die
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted June 09, 2013 10:00 PM |
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You don't need demon farming for that scenario, the mission is pretty easy. You have access to Devils and Dragons while the AI doesn't get further than Champions, if I remember correctly. That's more than enough to win without issues.
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Nybbas
Tavern Dweller
Flipmode Player
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posted June 12, 2013 11:02 PM |
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Demon farming is only a proficient strategy when you have more than 3-4 weeks though.
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