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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Unit tiers (Core/Elite/Champions) vs Levels
Thread: Unit tiers (Core/Elite/Champions) vs Levels This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT»
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 15, 2014 02:19 PM

Changing growth or stats was not much of a problem, Limbic had no trouble tweaking values during our testing phase. But that was a long time after the release and BlackHole kind of disappeared when the game came out. Worst timing ever..
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mike80d
mike80d


Famous Hero
Map Maker
posted August 15, 2014 04:00 PM

I completely agree that Heroes 6 was done incorrectly.  My biggest issue with it was the creature growth.  Early on it was too geared towards Core, and towards the end of a big map you'd end up with an ungodly amount of Champions.  

Losing troops along the way should hurt.  Losing one of your 3 or 4 champions should really sting!   I really liked the 1 or 2 champions/week in some of the previous games (if I recall correctly).  

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 15, 2014 04:04 PM

Exactly. Champions should have a limited growth so that we can appreciate them more. The fortification growth was also to blame as H6 introduced a fixed growth modifier(+1/2/3) instead of a percentage(+50/100% growth). If the fixed modifier is to remain, then each fortification(fort, citadel, castle) should give a different bonus to core/elite/champion units.
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Lord_Immortal
Lord_Immortal


Famous Hero
posted August 15, 2014 06:13 PM

What are Warfare units?

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 15, 2014 06:26 PM
Edited by Storm-Giant at 18:26, 15 Aug 2014.

War machines

flonembourg said:
Solid mechanichs is maybe (with good A.I) the most important thing in a Heroes game.

Totally agree. I believe that sticking to a simple damage formula (similar to H2, H3, H5, etc...) makes the life of the player easier and avoids confusion. Battles can be interesting with abilities, skills, spells...

flonembourg said:
More important than the fact there is no griffin in haven or swordbearer is or not a legit champion... I must confess these discussions about creatures BUG me.

Oh, you want bugs in Sylvann lineup?




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Pekao
Pekao

Tavern Dweller
posted August 16, 2014 02:23 PM

For me the best Level/Tier system would be:
3 Core Units
3 Advanced Units
2 Elite Units
1 Champion Unit

The difference of power between the levels should also be higher, i would like to see Champion creatures super powerful and almost "unbeatable" by Core creatures.
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Elsa
Elsa


Hired Hero
oh my
posted August 17, 2014 02:25 PM

I prefer the original 1 -> 7 system, because I just got heroes 6 a month ago (oops) and have been playing 3 and 5 wayyyyy longer. (I didn't like 4 )

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Wilfild
Wilfild

Tavern Dweller
posted August 17, 2014 08:15 PM

I played all over 6 game of Heroes saga, and HMM6 have some problem but even some good choice. I liked the new system with core/elite/champions unit, because there is less distance from tier 1 troops and t7.
In old type of mechanic the best choice was to recruit highest tier even from different type of faction.

With a right balance core/elite and champion unit can offer a good challenge and you can use all troops from your faction.

In HMM6 champions unit can be a threat only in games when a player choose to play longer. Maybe with some change on growth and resource to build, we will have more balance.

Core would be the first step for all. Indispensable at start and usefull at end.
Elite would be the real "core" unit, when you have right amount of resource to build and recruit them they will be your real force.
Champions would be the last units. Powerfull and desiderable unit with add to your troops a considarable amount of strenght.

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted August 26, 2014 02:39 PM
Edited by ChrisD1 at 14:40, 26 Aug 2014.

i like the H6 system with core/elite/champion. it simplifies the rules of the battle and it gives you a choice. can you either rock with all 7 creatures or choose the unit you like best from the core/elite/champion pool and go with it. and it certainly helps with the might/magic  separation they did in heroes 6. i had my might hero equipped with all the might units (core elite and champion) and my magic heroes with the magic ones and did just great!
btw will there be the might/magic units niche again?
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VOKIALBG
VOKIALBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted August 27, 2014 09:42 AM

Levels.
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted August 28, 2014 09:18 AM

ChrisD1 said:
i like the H6 system with core/elite/champion. it simplifies the rules of the battle and it gives you a choice. can you either rock with all 7 creatures or choose the unit you like best from the core/elite/champion pool and go with it. and it certainly helps with the might/magic  separation they did in heroes 6. i had my might hero equipped with all the might units (core elite and champion) and my magic heroes with the magic ones and did just great!
btw will there be the might/magic units niche again?


Actually, doesn't this make your armies vulnerable? If your Magic army faces a Magic resistant army, or your Might army faces a Might resistant army, you're in for trouble. Combining Might and Magic in a single army means you can be flexible in your tactics with regards to enemy resistance.

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted August 28, 2014 12:13 PM

Maurice said:


Actually, doesn't this make your armies vulnerable? If your Magic army faces a Magic resistant army, or your Might army faces a Might resistant army, you're in for trouble. Combining Might and Magic in a single army means you can be flexible in your tactics with regards to enemy resistance.

i am a little stubborn when it comes to heroes and i am not flexible at all and i usually have trouble, but i enjoy it
for an enemy magic hero my niche was to attack first so i can have the upper hand.
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Miru
Miru


Supreme Hero
A leaf in the river of time
posted August 28, 2014 10:10 PM

Storm-Giant said:

Oh, you want bugs in Sylvann lineup?

[giant bug]


That would be awesome actually.
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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 28, 2014 10:33 PM

Actually, I loved Mantis from H4 (even if they were the 'third' lvl 4 Sylvan creature), they had a cool ability and I wish we could see them (or another big bug) in Sylvan someday.

They fit the Nature theme, after all
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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
posted August 28, 2014 10:56 PM

I prefer levels...

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 29, 2014 10:23 AM

I prefer tiers, because it makes more sense for some units to be approximately equally powerful. For example, is there a reason for (H5) footmen being a level above archers? Or for berserkers to be a level above bear riders? They seem like they'd be of similar power, so they should be in the same level. Different levels should be reserved for significant unit differences, such as between footmen and cavaliers, minotaurs and dragons, and so on.
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted August 29, 2014 11:59 AM

I realise I didn't state my opinion yet. My personal preference goes to the 3-tier system as well. It allows for more dynamics between the different creatures within the same tier. Also, it narrows down the power difference between the weakest and the strongest creature. Mind you, the way they implemented it in Heroes6 was too much in favor of the Cores, so I hope they manage to find a better balance in this game.

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 29, 2014 01:01 PM

Maurice said:
Mind you, the way they implemented it in Heroes6 was too much in favor of the Cores, so I hope they manage to find a better balance in this game.

Exactly this.

We can't bury tier system just because in H6 was bad - a lot of stuff was bad in H6. it was obvious that in H6 cores strength was a problem - maybe if in H7 cores has less strength and Champions are more powerful, tier system'd work better.
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NACHOOOO
NACHOOOO


Known Hero
Pessimistically optimistic
posted August 30, 2014 05:51 AM

I like the new 3 tier system, level 1 units were completely useless once they took a hit end game and just felt like cannon fodder. That said I did love collecting thousands upon thousands of skeleton archers in HOMMV before they balanced that out.

In the 3 tier system I would like to see the champion units stronger, more expensive and fewer in number so that you really appreciate and anticipate adding them to your army. I'd really like them to feel like they are rare, supremely powerful entities that dominate the battle space, and each one you lose in battle pains you to see it lost.
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Steyn
Steyn


Supreme Hero
posted August 30, 2014 09:01 AM
Edited by Steyn at 10:04, 30 Aug 2014.

I think doing away with the rediculous healing of heroes 6 already helps a lot for balancing. When the cores actually die in battle, it is not so easy to amass large stacks of them that dominate the champions.

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