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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: What should return and what should not?
Thread: What should return and what should not? This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT»
War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted August 28, 2014 04:00 PM

ChrisD1 said:

wouldn't your goal be the optimal growth of your hero? so after a while some skills that are not that usefull for your gameplay, would they be shunned given the choice to? of course all these things depend on the map and the circumstances, but i loved the randomness while leveling up it was refreshing and kept me interested and surprised all the time.

That supposes I used the same hero every time. It's likely that when I play Might the first time, I'll play Magic the second, or vice versa.
That also supposes I play optimally. Which I don't. I want the skills I want, not the ones meta-game tells me are best. And since I don't multiplayer, I don't give a flying Sh1te about what's optimal and what isn't.
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PROJ
PROJ


Known Hero
posted August 28, 2014 04:03 PM

Randomness to the skill development is better imo as long as there aren't totally worthless options.  It makes you change your strategy on the fly and adapt to what you're given rather than just optimizing a build.  

From a design standpoint, The key thing is less about making everything as equal as possible and more that you don't want to force people to take garbage abilities (eagle eye/mysticism).  As long as the options are relatively reasonable and create different playstyles without being underpowered, random skills make the game more interesting.

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Nitramar
Nitramar


Adventuring Hero
posted August 28, 2014 04:14 PM
Edited by Nitramar at 16:18, 28 Aug 2014.

Nocturnal said:

-Two kinds of upgrades must certainly return.


I wish there could be a return to X amount of upgrades per creature, a bit like in H2 (some creatures have upgrades, some don't) but also with alternative upgrades for some creatures. A "must have 2 upgrades for every creature"-policy just seems a bit forced. In H3 some upgrades seemed forced even though there was only one upgrade per creature, like some that only changed looks (or, in the case of dendroids, hardly even did that) and added one speed and a few hp. Basically, drop all upgrades unless they are especially interesting or needed for balance.

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted August 28, 2014 04:18 PM
Edited by Dave_Jame at 16:39, 28 Aug 2014.

Nocturnal said:

- People who don't want town conversion must explain that to me. Because I can't find any reason for disliking that. If a hero's becoming too powerful is the problem, maybe a "destroy town" option instead of conversion can help?


Point one: Balance disharmony
In old game, it is true. that the person who found a neutral town of his  own faction had a huge advantage. But i Heroes VI it was only about "Who finds a neutral town firs.
The town conversion did not make this problem any better. Just made it more visible More town from the same faction=win

Point two: Promotes single faction focuse
The fact that there is no reason not to convert ends in single "super" armies in one hero. Makes all othr heroes Useless, totaly negates the option to return to the game once you lose your main foorce, due to the fact that there are no secundary armies or reserves.

Point three: It totally destroyes the neutral armies growth curve
Neutral stacks should be made in such a way, that they are interesting to fight at any time of the game. Converson arteficialy changes the basic growth of the player's forces, therefor destroying this curve, making neutral stacks nothing more then checkpoint. (p.s. Making a progresiv growth based on the power of the player will not help, due to the fact that could break the game for the AI. Or in a different scenario, break the game for the player due to the actions of the AI if it would be implemented for all sides.)

Point for: Logic
Lets make a Haven town into a graveyard, No lets make i a Stronghold jungel home, No let it be an anciet ruin for the Dark elves. I know it's fantasy, but eve this has limits.

Point five: Destroy a town feature is not a solution.
I think the first time a random AI would take control of your town and destroyed it befor you managed to came back, you would eat those lines you wrote down.

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Nocturnal
Nocturnal


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 28, 2014 11:20 PM

Dave_Jame said:


I think the first time a random AI would take control of your town and destroyed it befor you managed to came back, you would eat those lines you wrote down.



I never thought of that


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malax83
malax83


Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
posted August 28, 2014 11:29 PM
Edited by malax83 at 23:31, 28 Aug 2014.

dble post... sry

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malax83
malax83


Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
posted August 28, 2014 11:31 PM

malax83 said:
Don t want

- Stack creatures into one only hero and go straight line to opponent castle.
- No factions overpowered (Dwarves, conflux)


In consequence, Want


- Caravans
- Balance logistic / ground specifications / No chain Heroes.
- Heroes more expensive to hire when u already have heroes.

- Balance the creatures with patch by the community - using Duel Mode, and have opportunity to know the statistics of each factions.
- Tree factions close to Heroes 3 and 5,
- As some of you, ressources more important for win a game, it ll be the same of Heroes 3 with a little bit..
- Balance the surrender cost

- No real innovation

- Flanking
- Speed and initiative ATB
- Something close to Heroes 3 and 5, ...
- Keep dreaming,

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Charrclaw
Charrclaw


Known Hero
posted August 29, 2014 01:10 AM

Bring back 3D towns and new Inferno.
I know, no 3D awesome H5 town windows.

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PhoenixMK
PhoenixMK


Hired Hero
Burn baby, BURN!!!
posted August 29, 2014 02:28 AM
Edited by PhoenixMK at 15:06, 29 Aug 2014.

I WANT:
- hexagons (Heroes3)
- artefact sets
- luck and moral
- different spells for each town alignment (Heroes4)
- simultaneous turns
- wandering creatures
- fog of war
- music
- unique racial abilities (Heroes5)
- skill wheel
- speed and initiative system
- town conversions (needs to be more expensive or modified)(Heroes 6)
- reputation system
- boss fights
- usage of central tower in siege battles
I DO NOT WANT:
- dragons as champion units in most towns
- town portal and dimension door spells from H3
- long and philosophical stories in campaigns [edit] and please no "Griffin Eternal" in every dialogue
- week of plague
- cheating AI (H6)
- global recruitment
- area of control
- Conflux
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"I'm Phoenix. If I die it's only to be reborn hopefully better and brighter than before."

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Pyroxene
Pyroxene

Tavern Dweller
posted August 29, 2014 03:26 AM

PhoenixMK said:
I WANT:

- simultaneous turns


If you're referring to simultaneous attack-and-retaliations ala H4, then no pls. I absolutely hated this feature of H4.

If you're referring to 2 players getting their turns at the same time, I'm not sure how this would work in a turn-based game like heroes.

As for the discussion on boss fights, it should be noted that the Vein boss fight with the Avatar of the Void is fought using pre-set units as well, regardless of the number or type of troops you have when you enter the portal to fight the boss. In the fight, my stacks of Faceless Puppeteers and Elementals were replaced without my consent by a myriad of champion units during the final confrontation.

To balance boss fights and prevent the player from simply steamrolling the boss over with 1 year's worth of troops, I had earlier in this thread suggested increasing the boss's stats by x% for each month of elapsed game time, so the element of challenge is retained.
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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted August 29, 2014 09:53 AM

PhoenixMK said:

I DO NOT WANT:
- dragons as champion units in most towns



YUUUSH! at last another person who understands that dragons, as units ,do not have a place in ashan! enough with the nostalgia about dragons!
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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
posted August 29, 2014 10:54 AM
Edited by frostymuaddib at 10:56, 29 Aug 2014.

Quote:
If you're referring to 2 players getting their turns at the same time, I'm not sure how this would work in a turn-based game like heroes.


He was refering to this, and this feature worked perfectly in HoMM5. It is multiplayer feature only that speeds up the game: players are getting their turns at the same time until their areas of interest intersect (e.g. their heroes are near one another). When this happens, game returns to classic mode, so there is no change to gameplay.

It is really a feature that must be implemented.

EDIT:

Another thing that I would love to see: not only map editor, but a campaign editor as well

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted August 29, 2014 12:28 PM
Edited by Maurice at 12:31, 29 Aug 2014.

Nocturnal said:
- People who don't want town conversion must explain that to me. Because I can't find any reason for disliking that. If a hero's becoming too powerful is the problem, maybe a "destroy town" option instead of conversion can help?


Besides the points that Dave_Jame already wrote down, another big one for me was the immersion. We're not talking about a military base here, we're talking about towns. You know, those places were lots of people live together to do their everyday things in life. That I, as a player, also use the place to recruit troops shouldn't be its main purpose within the gameworld at large.

Town conversion only takes a handful of resources and is performed instantly - and all inhabitants are perfectly happy! You produced Archers and Sentinels before? Now you have Skeletons and Ghouls. A few turns later, you have Cerberi and Lilims! Makes perfect sense ...

No revolts or anything, the people that live in those towns don't seem to care under whose rule they live and under what conditions ... well, I guess a concept like population happiness is hard to implement in a game like this and is actually more suited for the Total War games series, but nonetheless, the ease of conversions rubs me the wrong way. It detracts from my immersion in the game world.

Like with most things, there's a solution, a compromise to be made. Town conversion could take not only increasing resources with increasing town size, but also take more time. Perhaps each day only a certain amount of buildings could be destroyed and a building may only be destroyed if no other buildings exist that require it (like how the Monastery requires a Mage Guild, you can't tear down the Mage Guild as long as the Monastery stands).

Taking it a bit further, Town conversion should mainly be Town demolition, which removes all faction specific buildings from the previous faction (and this includes all creature dwellings!). This could actually mean that town conversion doesn't cost resources, but actually yields them, though not nearly as much as building those demolished structures would have cost. After that, it's up to the player to rebuild the town in his own faction style, at normal resource expenditure like always.

This means the player who lost the town has some time to prevent damage to it, before a town is fully converted.

A question then remains whether a player should be able to destroy buildings in towns belonging to his own faction. I'd say yes, especially since we have to choose the Champion level dwelling. While we can then essentially swap between Champions at will, this comes at the expense of resources to build the other Champion dwelling as well as time for growth of that Champion.

Of course, this whole concept of gradual demolition may also provide extra controls; through events or scripts, some buildings may be set to not be demolishable (because the presence of that building is a quest objective) or may be demolished through scripting (for instance sappers destroying it through a scripted event).

What they could do for Random Maps, which seems to be the biggest issue with respect to multiplayer games (the luck of finding your expansion towns to be of your faction) is to also use a sort of "Neutral Town" concept; i.e., a town that is not aligned to any faction whatsoever but once captured for the first time, automatically converts to the faction of the player who captured it, without expenses. This means that such a neutral town cannot have any faction specific buildings at all until it is captured.

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PhoenixMK
PhoenixMK


Hired Hero
Burn baby, BURN!!!
posted August 29, 2014 03:41 PM

Town conversions are interesting and can be strategic but are too simple and annoying especially in later games if you have constant economic advantage over the foe. I would like to see this feature in Heroes 7 but to be expensive or modified.
As Maurice said above, It would be interesting if we can demolish buildings in the seized town or simply to prevent construction of new buildings or re establishment of the old town for a few days.
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"I'm Phoenix. If I die it's only to be reborn hopefully better and brighter than before."

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VOKIALBG
VOKIALBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted August 30, 2014 08:26 AM

Quote:
- dragons as champion units in most towns
- town portal and dimension door spells from H3
- long and philosophical stories in campaigns [edit] and please no "Griffin Eternal" in every dialogue
- week of plague


There must be at least 3-4 dragon champs imo. They are great. And Plague is nice. No one like it when it happens, but its something pretty unique. Long and philosophical stories are also better then flat plot.
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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted August 30, 2014 08:48 AM

PhoenixMK said:

As Maurice said above, It would be interesting if we can demolish buildings in the seized town or simply to prevent construction of new buildings or re establishment of the old town for a few days.


And As I said above. It would be interesting to see you in the situation when such a feature would be used against you by the AI.

Just a few days, and your efforts and resources would be gone. I think you would consider such a feature when beeing the one who has to take it consequences.
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.

We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.

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Avonu
Avonu


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
posted August 30, 2014 08:56 AM

Dave_Jame said:
And As I said above. It would be interesting to see you in the situation when such a feature would be used against you by the AI.

Just play H6 and let AI to capture your towns and forts.
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"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!

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Wilfild
Wilfild

Tavern Dweller
posted August 30, 2014 10:22 PM

What I want:

- Simultaneous turn (like H5 but more efficient)
- Town conversion (like H6 but more balanced)
- Core/Elite/champions unit
- Mage tower
- Skill at level up randomized but linked to hero's type
- Caravans
- Map editor that allow fans to create a very large amount of map types
- RMG
- Boss battles
- Balance of all faction
- Mechanic's faction

What I don't want:

- Heroes on battlefield with his armies (like H4)
- Blood and tears
- Dynasty weapon
- Fog of war
- Awful AI or cheating AI

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Nocturnal
Nocturnal


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 01, 2014 07:14 PM

Why no fog of war? It gives a certain kind of mystery to the game. Watching the opponent's every step would make the game far more easier. Especially against the AI as his best weapon is "I'm near your town. Suprise!"

I also like trying to find the opponent's city.

At least it can be like in Civ5. Even the places above which the fog is no more, you can't see it live. You just can see what was there when you opened the fog until you go there once again.
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malax83
malax83


Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
posted September 01, 2014 08:28 PM

Nocturnal said:
Why no fog of war? It gives a certain kind of mystery to the game. Watching the opponent's every step would make the game far more easier. Especially against the AI as his best weapon is "I'm near your town. Suprise!"



Yes, i dislike more and more Heroes series cause they aren t able to evolve, i dislike the fact there are so far away from boardgame - heroic fantasy turns by turns - but now the licence is shining and their commercial lign is to please all the fans. I %#!$ fans..

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