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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Upgrades
Thread: Upgrades This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · «PREV
NamelessOrder
NamelessOrder


Famous Hero
posted April 08, 2015 02:31 PM
Edited by NamelessOrder at 17:22, 08 Apr 2015.

I don't think that each creature should have an upgrade but when they do - it should be significant. However to make it significant it means that they need to create double the amount of creatures which is never going to happen.
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The_Green_Drag
The_Green_Drag


Supreme Hero
posted April 08, 2015 05:01 PM

I voted normal as well. I'm not a fan of the butterfly upgrades. Even the Ancient behemoth (H7) is a little much for me. It just becomes someone trying to add on when there is nothing, or little, left to add. Now the ancient behemoth has gigantic tusks and claws, a braided beard, and a strange nose. They just try and add things for the heck of it and it ends up making the creature look worse imo. A color change and a few details to make it look older is all it needed.

On rare occasions it can be pulled off quite nicely. The rakasha and its upgrade have little in common but they both look awesome.

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Greenlore
Greenlore


Known Hero
posted April 08, 2015 08:57 PM

In terms of appearance I'd prefer the normal way.
the unit doesn't need to evolve that much and should always be still recognizeable as the upgraded form of a lower unit.

However in terms of abilities I'd go for butterfly.
I think the upgrade should provide the units with some useful abilities,because that makes the upgrade feel actually worth.

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Alexine
Alexine


Known Hero
posted April 15, 2015 04:15 PM

I think we should answer another question first : why do we need upgrades for creatures ? Personaly I dislike this idea of upgrades UNLESS we have alternative upgrades (like in H5, love this feautre <3 ) Because upgrades is something you will have(built) everytime and I donīt like things like this. I like decisions, hard decisions to make the game more intresting and for me having just one upgrade per creature is pointless. What do you think ?

(I also love the idea of alternative creatures ! Its a pitty there is no alternative creatures for core/elite too instead of upgrades )

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted April 15, 2015 04:19 PM

Alexine said:
Because upgrades is something you will have(built) everytime and I donīt like things like this. I like decisions, hard decisions to make the game more intresting and for me having just one upgrade per creature is pointless.


It's mainly an interesting issue when resources are scarce. Then you will have to decide whether it's worth it to invest those precious resources into getting stronger troops, or getting more troops.

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Alexine
Alexine


Known Hero
posted April 15, 2015 04:32 PM

Well thatīs right. But I must admit I mostly play longer maps so I end up with having everything upgraded anyway. I dont know, for me it just looks like a wasted potential.. we could have alternate upgrades, or we could have no upgrades at all, but the time of development could be spent elsewhere (more alternate creatures ) ..

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PandaTar
PandaTar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted April 15, 2015 04:48 PM

Alexine said:
I like decisions, hard decisions to make the game more interesting and for me having just one upgrade per creature is pointless. What do you think ?

(I also love the idea of alternative creatures ! It's a pity there are no alternative creatures for core/elite too instead of upgrades )


This is similar to my likeness as well.

As for upgrading, I think units could have small or some points for improvement which you could research (like those technologies in Age of Empires, you see, + 1 melee attack, + 2 ranged attack etc.) in some different buildings in your town, or even provided somewhere in the Adventure Map. Sometimes, these improvements could lock and unlock others on the tech-tree - few of those could be additional or alternate abilities for units, not really an upgrade per se. You would have, in a certain degree, alternated upgrades.

This is something I was envisioning in my The Foundations proposal. Pity I didn't have time to describe the Town Tech-Tree.


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Zombi_Wizzard
Zombi_Wizzard


Famous Hero
posted April 15, 2015 06:08 PM

Maurice said:
Alexine said:
Because upgrades is something you will have(built) everytime and I donīt like things like this. I like decisions, hard decisions to make the game more intresting and for me having just one upgrade per creature is pointless.


It's mainly an interesting issue when resources are scarce. Then you will have to decide whether it's worth it to invest those precious resources into getting stronger troops, or getting more troops.


Yep Maurice is right. When you have limited resources you have to decide. Build a new dwelling, or upgrade existing one. This was apparent in H3 for example, when it was standard strategy to upgrade your gremlin in first turn, rather then go for gargoyle right away. In some cases you could go for gargoyle, and have more troops this way. That's just example, and there were many more like this in H3 and in H5 aswell.

However, it is also true, that later in game, you will always have all your creatures upgraded. Ultimately upgrades make sense only in early game. I would say tho, that secondary upgrades, like in H5, do not actualy do anything in this regard. Because, if one type of upgrade is better than the other, then you always pick the better one. And if two are equaly good, then just pick one, it does not matter. In rare cases, was that upgrades altered your battle strategy. And this is what you want, with secondary upgrades.
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RMZ1989
RMZ1989


Supreme Hero
posted April 15, 2015 08:06 PM

Zombi_Wizzard said:

However, it is also true, that later in game, you will always have all your creatures upgraded. Ultimately upgrades make sense only in early game. I would say tho, that secondary upgrades, like in H5, do not actualy do anything in this regard. Because, if one type of upgrade is better than the other, then you always pick the better one. And if two are equaly good, then just pick one, it does not matter. In rare cases, was that upgrades altered your battle strategy. And this is what you want, with secondary upgrades.

I don't really agree with you here because you simplify it a lot. There are always choices and little things that matter in the game, some upgrades being better at the start of the game but then switching them later, some of them being better for clearing neutrals but not being as good in fights against opposite hero etc.

Sure H5 could be a LOT better in that matter, some alternative upgrades are almost non-existent and even though they don't change as much as they should, they are still changing things. That's one of the reasons why H5 had really good replayability in my opinion, I was switching upgrades a lot and tested them a lot depending on my heroes, enemy factions, spells that I got etc. and there were some really cool combinations.
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Zombi_Wizzard
Zombi_Wizzard


Famous Hero
posted April 15, 2015 09:37 PM

I agree. I simplifyed it. But you are right. some upgrades did go in right direction. For instance most spellcasters. But majority was only slight changes. H5 upgrades were good, don't get me wrong. It would be awsome if Ubi would take them as starting point and developed them even further, to make them even more distinguishable from one another. That's all I realy wanted to say

But they decide to give up on the prospect ... oh well maybe we'll get alternate units instead, which has similar approach. The alternate unit should take diferent approach. So far champions do this well ... for most part.

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