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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Dungeon Line-up [vote part I]
Thread: Dungeon Line-up [vote part I] This thread is 39 pages long: 1 10 ... 18 19 20 21 22 ... 30 39 · «PREV / NEXT»
Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted November 03, 2014 04:05 PM
Edited by Maurice at 16:10, 03 Nov 2014.

As far as the Dungeon lineups go, I'm doubting between Faces and Shield. Overall, I think either of the three lineups will have its drawbacks and fortes, while the devs will also be able to give each lineup a unique twist with respect to similar lineups from other factions, enough to really set them apart. As such, I am going to ignore such aspects from my own considerations and strictly focus on the creatures making up the lineups.

Rather than to worry about the three given lineups, I will evaluate each creature and then sum them up across the three, to decide my final voting decision. I'll just name the base creature.

Core:
Assassin (melee, DPS): I hope he deals a poison attack with his normal attacks, but he should at least be able to hide in the shadows. +1

Shadow Lurker (ranged, saboteur): while I liked them in Heroes VI, I actually think they're worthy Elite material. However, the Elite section is already crowded. I'm undecided about them as a result, so 0.

Skirmisher (melee, DPS): in Heroes V, I liked them even though they died in droves because the AI focussed on them. Still, I had some trouble with the enormous distance they could run AND not suffer retaliation at the same time. But if they did get retaliated upon, they were too weak to hold out for too long. Coupled with the somewhat double role with respect to the Assassin, this one is at -1 for me.

Troglodyte (melee, tank): A non-elf that brings some peculiar aspects with it? Check! I like to see their return to the franchise, even if they don't appear in Heroes V. I'm not sure how they will work out the Earth Spirit thingy. I give it a +1 for now.

Stalker (ranged, DPS): Unlike the Shadow Lurker, this one does sound like Core material. With my doubts about the Lurker, this is the only Ranged attacker left among the Cores. Purely for that I give it a +1, even though I know nothing else about it.

Across the three lineups, this yields: Blade at 0, Faces at +3 and Shield at +2.

Elite:

Here we have the Minotaur among all three lineups, so I will omit them from my analysis. That leaves me with the following ones.

Shadow Unicorn (teleporter, saboteur): Eh, I have no idea what that creature is doing here. Is this supposed to be a left-over from the schism when they separated from their cousins, Sylvan? Furthermore, the upgrade (Nightmare - yes, I know the name isn't final, but it gives an indication of its supposed role and function) is something that I'd rather expect among Necropolis (boney, no flames) or Inferno (with flames). It feels completely out of place, so -2.

Faceless (teleporter, DPS): I know it's a popular creature, but I didn't really like it in Heroes 6. If they're supposed to stand toe to toe with Angels, why aren't Angels present either? As such, I'd rather see them as plot devices, working behind the scenes, not as a main battleground unit. So while I would like to see their influence ingame, I don't want them as a unit: -2. (No, put away those pitchforks and torches, folks!)

Strider (melee, saboteur): I haven't got a clue what this unit is supposed to represent, other than its role. Hence, can't say anything about it. That alone puts it at -1.

Medusa (ranged, saboteur): They really should have had a petrifying gaze, like in Heroes3. Just mesmerizing isn't enough for me. I can accept the story that they're drawn to the darker, destructive side of Shalassa, and hence are more at home in Dungeon, even if they don't worship Malassa outright. Without the stone gaze, it's a measily +1.

Manticore (flyer, saboteur): Very nice to see it return, and I can't find anything wrong with it. Hence, +2.

For the various lineups, we get Blades at -4, Faces at 0 and Shield at +1.

I haven't got to bother with the Champion tier, since the same two are present in each of the three lineups. Oh, and the original Hydra (the Lernaean Hydra) was a creature lurking in the water, with a poisonous breath and even more poisonous blood. It guarded the gate to the Underworld. In that light, it might even be a good contender for Necropolis .

Totalling it, Blades comes out at -4, Faces at +3 and Shield also at +3. The heavy-weight for Faces comes from the Core (3 units), while Shield mostly gets it from the Elites (1 unit). So in the end, I chose Faces, very closely followed by Shield. Blades is somewhere far in the background.

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Kimarous
Kimarous


Supreme Hero
posted November 03, 2014 05:16 PM

Is the difference between Shield supporters and Blade supporters literally night and day? Before I went to bed, it seemed like everyone was shouting support for Shield, but when I check back in the morning, HUGE influx of Blade support!

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supertommy
supertommy


Known Hero
posted November 03, 2014 05:17 PM

Maurice said:
Totalling it, Blades comes out at -4, Faces at +3 and Shield also at +3.


Sick thing is that Blades will win in the end. Faces is loosing votes rapidly, and Shield won't keep up neither. I'm disgusted!

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted November 03, 2014 05:22 PM

supertommy said:
Sick thing is that Blades will win in the end. Faces is loosing votes rapidly, and Shield won't keep up neither. I'm disgusted!

Are you forgetting about the second round?
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supertommy
supertommy


Known Hero
posted November 03, 2014 05:24 PM
Edited by supertommy at 17:26, 03 Nov 2014.

War-overlord said:

Are you forgetting about the second round?


No, but I'm a doomsayer. I feel it in my gut that Blades will take the second round too.

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted November 03, 2014 05:28 PM

supertommy said:
No, but I'm a doomsayer. I feel it in my gut that Blades will take the second round too.

Then I will be an optimist and say that most Shield Voters will find Faces a more acceptable alternative than Blade.
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 03, 2014 05:34 PM

I really wouldn't mind if either line-up won to be honest. They're all pretty much at the same level. Blades feels quite different from the other two but it still appeals to me a lot. I might consider changing my vote for it but I'm waiting the art for the time being.

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Raelag84
Raelag84


Famous Hero
posted November 03, 2014 05:38 PM
Edited by Raelag84 at 17:42, 03 Nov 2014.

I am now undecided, but I have spent time considering the tactics of these line ups.

The blades core line up reminds me of the old days of heroes 5 when you had your hit and run skirmishers combined with a long range fighter to serve as effective early creepers. The lurker and the dark blade fill these rolls well. All you need is some mechanism to make that shade invisible, perhaps through some heroes ability then you can march over the map against long range and short range neutrals. That's wishful thinking, but still I can accept the core, but things get a little more complicated with elite and champion roster.

Abstracting away from how the nightmare does not fit stylistically (in my opinion), having two teleporters combined with the flying black dragon makes the roster perfect for wall battles. This is nothing to sneeze at in a game where cover and obstacles will play a major role. Plus, I know from Age of Wonders III that teleporting really makes a difference when flanking matters. I can always cast haste on the Minotaur for some extra muscle fast. Still, there's a critical flaw; no defense.  

If the nightmare is anything like in Heroes 5 dungeon, then it would be a crime not to send the thing charging in to battle, plus there's no tank units whats so ever. I could switch the dragon out for a hydra to hang back, but the Hydra can't protect everyone, and again I am letting offensive abilities go to waste. The only thing I could maybe do is have a hero who can cast spells creating obstacles. Still, the blade line is heavily limited to attack tactics. May the gods help it against Sylana's fury.

Faces, not shield, seems like the real defensive faction. The tank trog, the shadow steel construct sound like defensive units, and with the Medusa and the tracker serving as long range attackers, the incentive to hang back is strong. Once again this line up has strong early creeping abilities, thanks to that trog hiding in the dirt, and that long range tracker unit faces is even better than blade in the early game. Still, faces is pretty limited on attacking options. You could send the black dragon in alone, but then it would be overwhelmed, but enemy defenses. Alternatively you could spend two turns getting to the enemy line, but a lot of bad things can happen in that time.

Shield is certainly the most well rounded of all the line ups, and it is because of one critical difference; it has a flyer and a construct in it's elite roster. That doesn't sound like much, but that manitcore allows for some offensive maneuvering, along with the black dragon and haste on the Minotaur. At the same time two shooters, the tank trog, and the construct offer incentive to hang back.

I am very tempted to vote for shield, for it sounds like the funnest to play. The only thing holding me back is it's appearance. Still, I hope people consider this food for thought.
 

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jhb
jhb


Famous Hero
posted November 03, 2014 05:44 PM

Stevie said:
I really wouldn't mind if either line-up won to be honest. They're all pretty much at the same level. Blades feels quite different from the other two but it still appeals to me a lot. I might consider changing my vote for it but I'm waiting the art for the time being.


I'm on the same boat Stevie.

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mike80d
mike80d


Famous Hero
Map Maker
posted November 03, 2014 05:50 PM
Edited by mike80d at 17:53, 03 Nov 2014.

I voted Malassa's Thousand Faces for several reasons:

-I like having an Elite ranged unit, the medusas
-I think 2 ranged units in the Core (of Shield lineup) is Overpowered for creeping
-Dungeon is typically more offensive than defensive, so I didn't go with the Shield lineup since it'll never be as defensive minded as other factions (dwarves, etc).  I like the balance of Malassa's Thousand Faces.

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Kwarc
Kwarc


Adventuring Hero
posted November 03, 2014 05:58 PM

Ok, this is ridicullus. Where are descriptions and artworks? How we supose to vote?

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted November 03, 2014 06:01 PM
Edited by Storm-Giant at 18:07, 03 Nov 2014.

They should come this week I guess.

If we don't get one today, I imagine tomorrow they'll release an article for sure. It's been a while since we had a Monday update
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 03, 2014 06:24 PM
Edited by Stevie at 18:25, 03 Nov 2014.

I think they need their morning coffee or something... Good thing we got Stormy here always willing to be helpful!

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted November 03, 2014 06:25 PM

Morning? It's already afternoon...wait, no, it's already evening in France/Germany!
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted November 03, 2014 06:37 PM

Storm-Giant said:
Morning? It's already afternoon...wait, no, it's already evening in France/Germany!

Yep it's almost 7pm here in Paris
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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted November 03, 2014 06:44 PM

Galaad said:
Yep it's almost 7pm here in Paris

As in 19:00? I suppose it must be, I'm in the same damn time-zone.
But just to illustrate that the 24:00 timescale is less confusing.
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted November 03, 2014 06:56 PM
Edited by Galaad at 18:56, 03 Nov 2014.

War-overlord said:

As in 19:00? I suppose it must be, I'm in the same damn time-zone.
But just to illustrate that the 24:00 timescale is less confusing.

Well, AM or PM

For those who missed it :
Kimmundi said:
Sadly we won't have definite art in time, but we are working on a article detailing the creatures featured in the line-ups along with arts we use as inspiration material for some of them. Hopefully it should be published tomorrow, but I can't confirm that!


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RMZ1989
RMZ1989


Supreme Hero
posted November 03, 2014 09:09 PM

Galaad said:

Kimmundi said:
Sadly we won't have definite art in time, but we are working on a article detailing the creatures featured in the line-ups along with arts we use as inspiration material for some of them. Hopefully it should be published tomorrow, but I can't confirm that!



They cut the time for voting but forgot that they have less time now for the artwork? Now, that is just great.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.

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Stormcaller
Stormcaller


Famous Hero
posted November 03, 2014 09:12 PM

Quote:
May the gods help it against Orcs' fury.


Fixed that for you.
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What makes a King? Some say it is a birthright, while others call it a destiny.

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Pawek_13
Pawek_13


Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
posted November 03, 2014 09:13 PM

And Thousand Faces lost another percent for Blades...

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