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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Dervish
Thread: Dervish This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · «PREV
artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 15, 2014 08:26 AM

Quote:
One thing I do not understand are some opinions that are against the unit. The most dazzling one is that the concept is not true to the source of the concept. This is fantasy, from it's nature we take an existing concept and change to make it stand out.

Yes, a lot of myth alteration takes place when it comes to computer games but as I said, dervishes are not mythical creatures, they are rather like monks and they are definitely not exotic dancers. They are basically very pious men who stay away from earthly pleasures and spend their days in prayer. The word dervish is still alive in my language and it is still used to describe men who live that way, unlike the word bigot, it does not have a pejorative meaning though, they are similar to fakirs of Hinduism or I don't know... think of Miyagi in the Karate Kid, he's like a dervish. So, it seems like quite an absurd idea to see the dervish as a poll dancer girl with blades.  

I understand it wouldn't feel like that to someone who's foreign to the culture but the concept of a dervish is very much alive today in the Middle-East, in many countries. Wiki.

Think of it like this, vampires have a certain image right, either aristocrat style or Nosferatu style, they are associated with a certain spectrum of appearance. A vampire that looks like a holy paladin or a fire elemental wouldn't make any sense, no matter how mythical he is. Same thing here, if you know what a dervish is, since childhood.

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted December 15, 2014 10:17 AM

artu said:
Yes, a lot of myth alteration takes place when it comes to computer games but as I said, dervishes are not mythical creatures, they are rather like monks and they are definitely not exotic dancers. They are basically very pious men who stay away from earthly pleasures and spend their days in prayer. The word dervish is still alive in my language and it is still used to describe men who live that way, unlike the word bigot, it does not have a pejorative meaning though, they are similar to fakirs of Hinduism or I don't know... think of Miyagi in the Karate Kid, he's like a dervish. So, it seems like quite an absurd idea to see the dervish as a poll dancer girl with blades.  

I understand it wouldn't feel like that to someone who's foreign to the culture but the concept of a dervish is very much alive today in the Middle-East, in many countries. Wiki.

Think of it like this, vampires have a certain image right, either aristocrat style or Nosferatu style, they are associated with a certain spectrum of appearance. A vampire that looks like a holy paladin or a fire elemental wouldn't make any sense, no matter how mythical he is. Same thing here, if you know what a dervish is, since childhood.


As much as I understand your point, and acknowledge it, it is still in my opinion a bit short sighted to dwell on this problem. I think that ancient pagan druids would not like the way they are depicted, and I'm pretty sure that a person working as an abbot or chaplain would dislike the usage of their title as well. Even if the Dervish is a bit far stretched from the original.

As much as people here love myths and traditional culture, you must take into account that their is a difference between what history understands as "something", in this case Dervish, and what fantasy understands under the same name. From the Diablo III pic posted here, I can imagine that M&M is not the only one who messes with a similar idea.
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 15, 2014 10:29 AM

Quote:
I'm pretty sure that a person working as an abbot or chaplain would dislike the usage of their title as well. Even if the Dervish is a bit far stretched from the original.

That's just it, monks, for example, are still in their robes and they look like monks even if they send out magical powerballs, here, the alteration is way too much to still call it a dervish. (The Diablo 3 one is not exactly way off like the ubisoft one, it clearly looks like a dervish.)

As I said in my first post, "...but whatever." It's not a big deal or anything, I would only put on a sarcastic smile every time I read the title dervish under that blade dancer, because she clearly isn't one.


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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted December 15, 2014 11:13 AM
Edited by Dave_Jame at 11:15, 15 Dec 2014.

artu said:

That's just it, monks, for example, are still in their robes and they look like monks even if they send out magical powerballs, here, the alteration is way too much to still call it a dervish. (The Diablo 3 one is not exactly way off like the ubisoft one, it clearly looks like a dervish.)


Well the last time the word monk was used in a heroes game it looked like this.. And the Diablo dervish, to me, looks like an undead version of the M&M Djinn/Dervish combination Darkem made. I'm not from that culture, but I'm not sure eather would make me happy. I could also talk about what the term Vampire ment, and who was branded as such, but that would be to much time and way of topic.

But this is all just playing with wrods. It is not the name of a unit that is important, as much as some want it to be, it is its concept. And this concept has, in my opinion, potential, more then a Guy with no armor and 2 blades, or a half Hippo man.
It is the potential I love about this unit. How fresh it can be approached, what new abilities it can bring. Make it a Djinn, make it a construct, make it beastman, generaly I would miss the designe but as long as Academy gets some fresh new units I'm OK with it.
Just look at H7 discussion topic, how many people disliked the units abilities.
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.

We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.

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SepSpring
SepSpring


Known Hero
posted December 15, 2014 11:23 AM

Quote:
Dervishes are a lot like Blade Dancers, only different flavor, you know what I mean?

Lol, that's why I asked about your reading skills. The first post of this topic explains the difference between the units. And Dave just proved it one more time:
Quote:
But this is all just playing with wrods. It is not the name of a unit that is important, as much as some want it to be, it is its concept. And this concept has, in my opinion, potential, more then a Guy with no armor and 2 blades, or a half Hippo man.
It is the potential I love about this unit. How fresh it can be approached, what new abilities it can bring. Make it a Djinn, make it a construct, make it beastman, generaly I would miss the designe but as long as Academy gets some fresh new units I'm OK with it.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 15, 2014 11:41 AM

Quote:
Well the last time the word monk was used in a heroes game it looked like this.. And the Diablo dervish, to me, looks like an undead version of the M&M Djinn/Dervish combination Darkem made. I'm not from that culture, but I'm not sure eather would make me happy. I could also talk about what the term Vampire ment, and who was branded as such, but that would be to much time and way of topic.


Those are far-eastern monks and they aren't extremely far fetched. Happiness is irrelevant to my point, familiarity is. And if names don't matter, then simply don't name something that doesn't look like a dervish at all, a dervish. Just like you wouldn't name a werewolf unit a vampire. Problem solved. My objection isn't based on cultural sensitivity, it's just that naming something wrong seems like a way with no gain, why do it to begin with?

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Shambell
Shambell


Hired Hero
posted December 15, 2014 12:11 PM
Edited by Shambell at 12:21, 15 Dec 2014.

artu said:
Think of it like this, vampires have a certain image right, either aristocrat style or Nosferatu style, they are associated with a certain spectrum of appearance. A vampire that looks like a holy paladin or a fire elemental wouldn't make any sense, no matter how mythical he is. Same thing here, if you know what a dervish is, since childhood.




The fun thing is, reading it, it made me think about Fire Vampires of Cthulhu mythos... more or less little fire elementals.
The crux is the name is the same but the concept is different excepted for the point of extracting something out of something else.

The same for the Dancing Dervish.
In DoC (the only game where they appear), they have very high speed and mobility and are represented as "dancing".
You could link this to the Whirling Dance of real Dervishes hence the name.
Nothing more, nothing less.

Nota: Another interesting power they have in DoC is the ability to reflect a part of all the range attacks.

Also another nota: Oh yeah, and historicaly, they were not always very pious men who stay away from earthly pleasures and spend their days in prayer.
Today, it is perhaps the case but in the past there was case like the Dervish State were its soldiers were called this: Dervishes.

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