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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Heroes 5 plothole thread
Thread: Heroes 5 plothole thread
Sligneris
Sligneris


Supreme Hero
posted April 16, 2015 11:20 PM
Edited by Sligneris at 12:47, 19 Apr 2015.

Originally, I thought to make a general thread for this thing in Heroes 7 section, but then I realized that there aren't really as many internal plot holes or unexplained things within other games.

So, I decided to make this thread specifically for Heroes 5 plot holes in order to clear up any and all nonsense within, with the canonical information (or even plausible theories), so that its story makes more sense with hindsight. I'll start with the first ones that come to mind, but I'd like to see more, so feel free to add more information that you think makes little sense.



1. Why did Nicolai turn evil after becoming a vampire, while most vampires are able to remain themselves?

Markal performed Ritual of the Night in order to revive Nicolai - it immediately and forcibly turns its subject into a vampire. Ritual is successful only if the soul is willing to undergo the transformation - otherwise the created vampire will become a bloodthirsty monster, whose original personality is repressed by his thirst for blood. Obviously, Nicolai didn't become a vampire willingly.



2. Why did Isabel not expect that Nicolai would come back as undead?

She did - in the first scenario of Necropolis campaign, she acknowledges that Markal will bring back Nicolai using necromancy. What she did not expect is that Nicolai would lose his personality, as demonstrated by the point above.



3. Why did Necromancers and Griffin Knights invade Irollan?

Elves engaged in a direct conflict with Griffin forces during Markal's invasion on the Silver Cities. They also sheltered rebels under Caldwell. That was enough to warrant a war, especially if you take Markal's lust for power into consideration.



4. Why was Tieru able to stay on Ashan in the form of a ghost?

Ghosts are not risen by necromancers - they are created when a strong emotion grounds one's soul to the material plane, disallowing them to pass on to the spirit world. Most of them do not serve the necromancers until bound to their will by a specific ritual.

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Avonu
Avonu


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
posted April 17, 2015 07:08 AM

Sligneris said:
1. Why did Nicolai turn evil after becoming a vampire, while most vampires are able to remain themselves?

Because... no reason at all. He didn't like his new status, he was angry at Isabel, etc. but he didn't have any reason to attack Irollan besides... because H5 plot forced him to do that.



Sligneris said:
2. Why did Isabel not expect that Nicolai would come back as undead?

She did - in the first scenario of Necropolis campaign, she acknowledges that Markal will bring back Nicolai using necromancy. What she did not expect...

What she didn't excepted is that old, evil looking necromacer will be... evil. Even if she was warned by Godric, by Raelag and probably by any person with one functioning brain cell.


Sligneris said:
3. Why was Tieru able to stay on Ashan in the form of a ghost?

Because he is a Force Ghost now. Literally.
Tieru's become Raelag's Obi-Wan, while Dragon Knights are Ashan's Jedi.

Quote:
The Dragons
In the new Might & Magic universe, Dragons are not mere “gigantic winged fire-breathing reptiles,” but they are Ashan’s primordial gods and the embodiment of magic.
The natives of Ashan are aware of the Dragons’ existence and hold them in respect, if not always in awe. Oaths are sworn on them, and their presence infiltrates everyday conversation.
An elite and secretive cast of “mystic warriors” known as the “Dragon Knights” have attuned themselves to the legendary beasts. They borrow their magic powers from the dragons’ own innate abilities (flying, fire-breathing, immunity to mundane weapons, etc.). They can ride dragons. Some say they can even shapechange into dragons!
These days, only the lesser dragons walk in Ashan. The Elder dragons wait in the Spirit Realm, accepting worship and awaiting the day they can return.

Dragons are like the “Force” in Star Wars and the Dragon Knights are like the Jedi Knights.

____________
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"Details are everything."
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Sligneris
Sligneris


Supreme Hero
posted April 17, 2015 11:34 AM

Avonu said:
Because... no reason at all. He didn't like his new status, he was angry at Isabel, etc. but he didn't have any reason to attack Irollan besides... because H5 plot forced him to do that.

Thanks for bringing that one up, added it to the list.

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted April 17, 2015 04:53 PM

Sligneris said:
Markal performed Ritual of the Night in order to revive Nicolai - it immediately and forcibly turns its subject into a vampire. Ritual is successful only if the soul is willing to undergo the transformation - otherwise the created vampire will become a bloodthirsty monster, whose original personality is repressed by his thirst for blood. Obviously, Nicolai didn't become a vampire willingly.


leaving aside the fact that this is never explained whatsoever in Heroes 5,
what exactly was he planning to do if Nicolai did happen to return willingly? lol
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Sligneris
Sligneris


Supreme Hero
posted April 17, 2015 05:54 PM
Edited by Sligneris at 23:15, 17 Apr 2015.

Well... being ripped from the afterlife only to have a necromantic ritual performed on your soul and body doesn't exactly give you a lot of time to prepare for it all.

There's also another piece of information that should be noted - Markal knew Nicolai personally, when he served as Fiona's councilor. Nicolai didn't strike me as the type who would want to become a vampire, or to live eternally - especially when his first order after his mother's death was banishing Markal for necromancy. Markal would know of that, obviously.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted April 18, 2015 10:41 AM

The writers had come up with the ritual's specifics at the time, naturally
____________
You are truly a monster, Blizz. Truly
-Gnomes2169

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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted April 18, 2015 10:48 AM

Sligneris said:
Well... being ripped from the afterlife
There is no afterlife in Ashan only reincarnation.

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Avonu
Avonu


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
posted April 18, 2015 10:57 AM

There is.
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!

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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted April 18, 2015 11:10 AM
Edited by Gryphs at 11:11, 18 Apr 2015.

Really? Care to elaborate.

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Sligneris
Sligneris


Supreme Hero
posted April 18, 2015 12:29 PM
Edited by Sligneris at 12:31, 18 Apr 2015.

IIrc, each Elemental Dragon has his or her own dominion within Spirit World. Those who want to spend their afterlife in the domain of their Dragon instead of being reincarnated are able to so, obviously provided that said Dragon would accept them.

That makes me wonder why Ashan never runs out of souls though.

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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted April 18, 2015 07:09 PM

Remember: Markal had to retrieve four powerful artifacts to raise Nicolai. Some characters just use raw necromancy: like Sveltana raised Anastasya, who has her own will.

I guess Markal wanted a flawless plan, hence why he acquired those four artifacts to have full control over Nicolai to attack Irollan.

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Dies_Irae
Dies_Irae


Supreme Hero
Picker of Bones
posted April 18, 2015 07:11 PM
Edited by Dies_Irae at 19:13, 18 Apr 2015.

Gryphs said:
Really? Care to elaborate.


Nicolai's own words:

"What have you done? I was at peace. I sat before Elrath, beside my fathers. Out of time and place!"

Markal: "Oh, that must have been lovely."

Nicolai: "Then I was ripped. Ripped as an unborn child from a womb. I am cursed now, do you see? I cannot go back! My soul is damned!"

So yes, there must be some sort of afterlife in Ashan.

Here's the clip on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mv-F42N-CvY
____________

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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted April 18, 2015 09:12 PM

Sligneris said:
IIrc, each Elemental Dragon has his or her own dominion within Spirit World. Those who want to spend their afterlife in the domain of their Dragon instead of being reincarnated are able to so, obviously provided that said Dragon would accept them.

That makes me wonder why Ashan never runs out of souls though.
Ah okay, thank you for the explanation.

Dies_Irae said:


Nicolai's own words:

"What have you done? I was at peace. I sat before Elrath, beside my fathers. Out of time and place!"

Markal: "Oh, that must have been lovely."

Nicolai: "Then I was ripped. Ripped as an unborn child from a womb. I am cursed now, do you see? I cannot go back! My soul is damned!"

So yes, there must be some sort of afterlife in Ashan.

Here's the clip on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mv-F42N-CvY
I know he said this but much of H5 is redacted canon so I was unsure if this mattered.

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted April 19, 2015 05:14 PM

Gryphs said:
I know he said this but much of H5 is redacted canon so I was unsure if this mattered.


philosophical epiphany: if canon falls in a forest and no one from the original team is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 19, 2015 08:00 PM

LMAO
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler

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Sligneris
Sligneris


Supreme Hero
posted April 20, 2015 08:19 AM

Uh... I guess Stevie's comment was meant as a response to Verriker...

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted April 20, 2015 04:07 PM

Of course, that was good
____________
You are truly a monster, Blizz. Truly
-Gnomes2169

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