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| Thread: Skill system for my version of HVIII | |
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moonshade
Known Hero
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posted May 04, 2015 10:56 PM |
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Skill system for my version of HVIII
Hi!
Here is the list of skills for my version of H8.
First, alongside the Secondary Skills referred to herein also exist the 4 familiar Primary skills of Attack, Defense, Spell Power and Knowledge. Secondary Skills (hereby referred to as just "skills") are random like in previous Heroes games, and every hero can learn up to 7 skills (out of 21 possible ones), in addition to the Faction skill they automatically start with. Every 10 levels your Hero can choose to forget (aka delete) an unwanted skill (though you also lose all its associated perks on the way), and there also exist a Market of Time map structure allowing to do the same at all levels. While the system is random, Might heroes have higher chances to get Might-oriented skills and vice versa, and same with Primary skills.
Like in H5, Skills are all passive and influence your heroes and units in various ways. They are divided into General skills and Faction (specific) skills. Alongside the Skills exist multiple specific Perks, containing both Passive and Active abilities.
They are required to advance up the skill tree (3 ranks- from Basic to Expert). Each General Skill has 4-6 Perks, while Faction Skill have 6-8 Perks + an Ultimate ability. So overall-
64 Faction Perks and 105 General Perks. To actually gain access to all these, Heroes now level up FAST (level 50 Heroes won't be rare in an XL-map endgame).
Certain Perks require changing ranks in several skills. For example- Void Magic (granting access to 3 unique spells not found normally in Mage Guilds) requires ranks in both Dark & Prime Magic. Dirge of Decay requires ranks in Necromancy, Tactics & Offense- naturally catering more for Necropolis Might Heroes.
Generally, most General Skills don't require ranks in other skills (only a few rarities like Void Magic, grouped under Prime), and most of the synergy is found in Faction Skills. Ultimate Abilities also return, being the ultimate Perks.
So, here's the skill list:
Might:
1. Offense: Increases melee damage for units and the attack of your hero.
2. Archery: Increases ranged damage for units.
3. Defense: Increases defense for your units, including magic resistance and spell damage reduction.
4. Siegecraft: The basic skill grants increased damage and control over your faction's catapult, while perks increase the effectiveness of your faction-specific, unique Warfare units (and as such often require ranks in Faction skills), or the durability of your town during sieges.
5. Tactics: Allows you to spread your units in a large area before combat. Perks allow the use of Battle Formations and Warcries.
Neutral:
1. Leadership: Increases Morale in battle, eventually allowing combination of non
2. Luck: Increases Luck in battle.
3. Rulership: Increases unit production in town and also includes diplomacy-style Perks.
4. Explorer: Hero moves more, sees more and can better traverse ocean or difficult terrain. Combination of Logistics, Pathfinder, Scouting and Navigation.
5. Learning: Hero gains XP and primary skills faster.
6. Merchant: Increases effectiveness of marketplaces, thieves guilds and mines/resource silos. Combine with Rulership for the ultimate economic leader.
Magic:
Magic is learnt from Mage Guilds, except for few spells unlocked through Perks or the Summoning skill (which increases the general effectiveness of summoning spells and allows Sylvan to summon creatures and Necropolis to cast the various Raise spells- except for Animate Dead, which is a generic Dark spell). Due to their multitude, spell schools include between 10-12 spells- overall 99 spells, alongside 20 or so spells unlockable through Perks (mostly being summons or undead-raising spells).
They are divided into 5 levels, with each town limited to its associated spell schools for spells above 2nd level. Stronghold is limited to 3rd level Mage Guild, while Haven is limited to 4th (you wanna learn 5th level Light spells- capture a Sylvan or Sanctuary town!). Also, "good" factions don't have access to Dark magic, Stronghold doesn't get Prime in their Mage guilds while "evil" factions don't have Light. Academy is the only faction with unrestricted access to all magic types, though their closest association is with Air, Water, Light and Prime magic.
1. Air Magic: Associated with Haven, Stronghold and Academy.
2. Earth Magic: Associated with Sylvan, Necropolis and Dungeon.
3. Fire Magic: Associated with Sanctuary (being desert-based now, they aren't afraid of Fire), Dungeon and Inferno.
4. Water Magic: Associated with Sanctuary, Sylvan, Stronghold (with their new Cold theme) and Academy.
5. Light Magic: Associated with Haven, Academy, Sylvan and Sanctuary.
6. Dark Magic: Associated with Dungeon, Inferno and Necropolis.
7. Prime Magic: Associated with Academy, Necropolis and Inferno.
8. Sorcery: Increases effectiveness of damage spells, and allows breaching magic resistance and immunities.
9. Mysticism: Increases your overall spell point pool, and allows copying spells from Scrolls or Wands, learning of enemy-cast spells and mid-combat spell point regeneration.
10. Summoning: Increases the effectiveness of summoning spells (and also resurrection magic), and opens multiple Faction-specific summons.
Faction Skills (coming soon):
Haven: Counterstrike- Haven are the masters of Defensive warfare, and their Faction skill reflects that- dealing increased retaliation damage and eventually giving additional retaliations and even First Strike (retaliate before being attacked). Many Perks require ranks in Defense and Tactics, while Light magic & Summoning allows countering against spells and the combat summoning of Wolves and Azraelim (creating different gameplay for Might & Magic Heroes).
BTW- by purpose I did't want to give my version of Haven any Light or righteousness-related Faction skill (as opposed to specific Perks)- they aren't so righteous anymore.
Sylvan: Symbiosis- Increases synergy bonuses between Sylvan units and grants them unique abilities.
Sanctuary: Honor
Academy: Transmutation
Stronghold: Bloodrage
Inferno: Gating
Dungeon: Black Art
Necropolis: Necromancy
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted May 06, 2015 11:07 AM |
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Mostly well thought out, but I do have a few issues:
1. Tactics - Never been entirely certain of this one, it just doesn't seem, I don't know, big enough to really be a separate skill.
2. Explorer - Oh no, just, no. Mixing all the movement skills I can go along with, but Scouting needs to be separate, otherwise you might as well put Archery in with Offense as it was in H5.
3. Summoning - Would seem to me to be rather more at home in Sorcery.
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moonshade
Known Hero
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posted May 07, 2015 01:02 AM |
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Comments on Matt's comments
Here are my comments to your comments.
First, my skill system has two major purposes- variety and synergy. Let me demonstrate in the standard Haven Magic Hero, the Cleric. Clerics normally start the game with Counterstrike and Light Magic. Should you choose to focus on Light Magic (as Counterstrike by itself has great synergy- common perks & all- with Defense & Tactics), your Cleric can pick Light & Summoning to improve her healing and resurrection magic, and also get 2 unique spells- Summon Dire Wolf & Summon Azrael. Alternately, she can combine Light with Sorcery to improve the 3 powerful damage spells Light offers (Divine Vengeance, Holy Word & Sunray)- not to mention take Air Magic since Haven also have full access to it (up to 4th level). Alternately, the Cleric can combine Light with Leadership to gain access to Sermon Perks, granting bonuses to your units as long as she keeps Chanting.
Now regarding the specific comments:
1. Tactics - Tactics are about battlefield control as opposed to improving your units, and as such I think deserve to be their own skill. It's also a good place to group the various Formation & Warcry Perks (at first I wanted to make Formation Haven-exclusive, but that's stupid- all armies can maintain formation).
2. Explorer -Why not? Scouting by itself is a boring and nearly wothless skill, why not make it just a Perk like in H5? Regarding seperating Offense & Archery- that was on purpose, to emphasize the difference between melee-supporting heroes like Knights & Barbarians and ranged-supporting heroes like Rangers & Alchemists.
3. Summoning - Again- a summon-based caster and a direct damage caster aren't the same.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted May 07, 2015 03:05 AM |
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moonshade said:
1. Tactics - Tactics are about battlefield control as opposed to improving your units, and as such I think deserve to be their own skill. It's also a good place to group the various Formation & Warcry Perks (at first I wanted to make Formation Haven-exclusive, but that's stupid- all armies can maintain formation).
Okay, I suppose I can see that.
Quote:
2. Explorer -Why not? Scouting by itself is a boring and nearly wothless skill, why not make it just a Perk like in H5?
Because I can think of several perks to go with it: getting more information about an enemy hero, getting more information about a location, spotting an event, maybe even visiting a location without sending the hero there.
Quote:
3. Summoning - Again- a summon-based caster and a direct damage caster aren't the same.
Of course they aren't, but if you're going for multiple effect-booster skills then you'd need to add at least one more skill for mass cursing/blessing spells.
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moonshade
Known Hero
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posted May 07, 2015 07:36 AM |
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Comments II
Regarding Scouting- still, even with your (quite cool and creative) Perk suggestions it still looks like a junk skill to me. If I'd have the choice between Scouting as a secondary skill and any other one, I'd pick the other.
Regarding Curses/Blesses- I thought about just making Curses & Blesses influenced by Dark & Light Perks (respectively)- thus making damage & summoning spells unique. However, I can think about a Thaumaturgy skill basically increasing the duration of buff/debuffs, making them harder to dispel, have greater effect and allowing you to transfer buffs to friendly creatures and debuffs to enemies. But I'm quite afraid such a skill would perhaps be little bit too powerful...
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moonshade
Known Hero
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posted May 07, 2015 12:25 PM |
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Sample Skills: Dark & Prime Magic (full), others just spells
Dark Magic:
Dark Magic is associated with destruction, decay, malice and deception. It is normally associated with Ashan's more nefarious denizens: Faceless (said to be its supreme masters, taught its secrets by their mother Malassa), Dark Elves, Necromancers and Demons.
Spells (12):
Level 1: Plague (Dark DoT), Curse (minimum damage for the spell's duration), Negation (dispels buffs, cheaper than Dispel Magic)
Level 2: Sorrow (lowers Morale), Frality (lowers Attack)
Level 3: Confusion (affected unit will act randomly), Unholy Word (Dark damage to all Living creatures, Demons & Undead are immune)
Level 4: Animate Dead (like Resurrection, but only for Undead),
Vampirism (grants a Life Drain effect for a single unit, also making it Undead for the spell's duration)
Level 5: Master of Puppets (control an enemy unit), Sacrifice (destroy a friendly stack to resurrect another one), Summon Dark Elemental (summons a powerful Dark Elemental, equivelant to an Elite-level creature)
Skill:
Basic Dark Magic: Allows the learning of 3rd level Dark Magic spells.
Advanced Dark Magic: Allows the learning of 4th level Dark Magic spells and increases the potency of existing spells.
Expert Dark Magic: Allows the learning of 5th level Dark Magic spells and increases the potency of existing spells.
Perks:
Dying Curse: Whenever one of your creatures is killed, the enemy who struck the killing blow is affected at random by either Curse, Frality, Sorrow or Confusion. Requires Basic Dark Magic.
Master Hexer: Increases the potency and grants an area effect to Curse, Negation, Sorrow and Frality- but they also cost more. Requires Advanced Dark Magic & Dying Curse.
Eternal Damantion: Your Dark debuffs last one round longer, and any attempts to cancel them (either through Cure, Dispel or Warmachine effects) have a certain chance to fail. Requires Master Hexer.
Lord of Death: Increases the effectiveness of the Plague spell cast by you or your creatures (Liches & Cabalists), and gives it an Infectious effect. Living creatures surrounding the original target now have a chance to contact Plague, at half its original potency. Unholy Word is 20% more effective. Requires Advanced Dark Magic.
Light's Bane: For 3 rounds, your creatures will deal +5% increased damage for every Light Magic spell affecting the target. Requires Lord of Death.
Dark Deceit: For 6 rounds (the Perk has to be activated), your enemy's spells have some chance to miss their target and hit another target instead at random (including its own units). Likewise, enemy buffs now have a certain chance to affect your troops instead. Requires Expert Dark Magic & either Eternal Damnation or Light's Bane.
Prime Magic:
Prime Magic is the oldest & most ancient magical discipline in Ashan, and mastering it is said to pave the road to Divinity (like Sar-Elam did)- or global devastation. It is a magic of contrasts, between Order (Asha) & Chaos (Urgash), and between the guardian Orders of Dragon Knights & Blind Brothers and the mad disciples of the Void. Its spells include a mixture of battlefield control spells, spells that affect other spells and adventure map spells. Being the oldest kind of magic, they are also the most numerous.
Spells (13):
Level 1: Telekinesis (changes the location of an obstacle for 2 rounds), Dispel (removes magic both beneficial and negative), Magic Arrow (deals Prime damage to a single target), Divination (allows you to see the army composition & stats of enemy heroes, and spot invisible map objects)
Level 2: Haste, Slow, True Sight (affected unit becomes becomes immune to Flanking, and will spot all Invisible objects on the battlefield during its turn)
Level 3: Spell Immunity (target becomes magic immune for a few rounds), Teleport
Level 4: Mind Bomb (enemies will take Prime damage whenever using a spell or Active ability)
Level 5: Magic Mirror, Dimension Door, Summon Phoenix
Skill:
Basic Prime Magic: Allows the learning of 3rd level Prime Magic spells.
Advanced Prime Magic: Allows the learning of 4th level Prime Magic spells and increases the potency of existing spells.
Expert Prime Magic: Allows the learning of 5th level Prime Magic spells and increases the potency of existing spells.
Perks (6):
Chronomancy: Grants mass effect and increases the potency of Haste & Slow. Reduces the Mana cost of Teleport. Requires Basic Prime Magic.
Oracle: Grants mass effect to True Sight and eliminates the Mana cost of Divination. Requires Basic Prime Magic.
Nethermancy (previously called Void Magic): Automatically adds 3 spells to your spell book according to your Prime & Dark Magic skill levels, normally not available in Mage Guilds: Void Blast (2nd level), Elder Chant (3rd level) & Nether Storm (5th level). Your Dark Magic spells will now deal alternate Prime damage and vice versa- affecting normally immune creatures. Requires Advanced Prime Magic & Advanced Dark Magic.
Esoteric Master: Automatically adds 3 spells to your spell book according to your Prime & Light Magic skill levels, normally not available in Mage Guilds: Warding Sign (3rd level), Dimensional Prison (4th level) & Oblivion (5th level). Your Light Magic spells will now deal alternate Prime damage and vice versa- affecting normally immune creatures. Requires Advanced Prime Magic & Advanced Light Magic.
Shared Mind: For 5 rounds, all your creatures (including your hero) will share their spell points. Requires Advanced Prime Magic and Oracle.
Rewind: Brings back combat up to 3 rounds before (like a mid-combat Autosave). Requires Expert Prime Magic, Chronomancy & either Nethermancy, Esoteric Master or Shared Mind.
Fire Magic
Fire Magic is the magic of strong emotions- desire, greed, love, anger or hate- and unbridled fury & devastation. It is associated either with the Dwarves, who wield Arkath's eternal flame to forge things of great wonder, or most (in)famously- the Demons of Sheogh, who adapted to Fire after being imprisoned in Ashan's burning core for millenia and now use its power to destroy & torment at will. It is composed mostly of direct damage spells, as well as many debuffs and certain buffs.
Spells (11):
Level 1: Bloodlust, Slayer, Fire Bolt
Level 2: Flame's Blessing, Misfortune
Level 3: Fireball, Frenzy
Level 4: Berserk, Cinder Cloud
Level 5: Armageddon, Summon Fire Elemental
Air Magic:
Spells (11):
Level 1: Gust of Wind, Precision
Level 2: Lightning Bolt, Disrupting Ray
Level 3: Winged Feet, Sky's Blessing
Level 4: Chain Lightning, Invisibility
Level 5: Fly, Hurricane, Summon Air Elemental
Earth Magic (11)
Level 1: Stoneskin, Rockwall
Level 2: Entangle, Earth's Bounty
Level 3: Earthquake, Stone's Blessing
Level 4: Meteor Shower, Town Portal
Level 5: Implosion, Diamond Skin, Summon Earth Elemental
Water Magic (11):
Level 1: Slippery Ground, Summon Boat
Level 2: Ice Bolt, Rain's Blessing, Regeneration
Level 3: Water Walk, Fortune
Level 4: Adaptation, Ice Bomb
Level 5: Clone, Summon Water Elemental
Light Magic (12)
Level 1: Bless, Cure
Level 2: Mirth, Holy Word
Level 3: Divine Vengeance, Angelic Armor
Level 4: Sunray, Martyrdom, Resurrection
Level 5: Elrath's Intervention, Summon Light Elemental
To be continued...
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted May 07, 2015 11:10 PM |
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Edited by PandaTar at 23:11, 07 May 2015.
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Why don't you make "Luck" a 'game skill', completely universal that affects everyone and no one, uncontrollable by any means? How can one have power over luck odds? This feature can come as an additional and unknown factor that can come, rather suddenly, in your favor or against you. Adds a bit to the flavor of fun and adventure. And not only regarding battles, but luck can be a universal perk with many implications, always (and never) present.
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moonshade
Known Hero
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posted May 07, 2015 11:33 PM |
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More Skills: Necromancy, Offense
Here I'll post the remaining skills, starting with (you've guessed it) Necromancy. Offense also added.
Necropolis Faction Skill: Necromancy
Necromancy is all about overriding the boundries between life & death, binding dead bodies and souls to the Necromancer's whim. This ancient Art was discovered by the rogue Archon Belketh and passed down to his disciples over the millenia, including the likes of Sandro, Markal and Arantir. In the past, most Necromancers revered Asha's Spider-godess aspect and saw their art as a form of worship. Nowdays, their eyes (or eye sockets...) were opened by Sandro's strange return from utter destruction and they research the secrets of Void Magic, or Nethermancy, casting down all faiths in the pursuit of true power and immortality. Necromancy is about all raising the Undead after combat, and masses of them. Its Perks support that function, but also provide additional powerful debuffs to those supplied by Dark Magic.
Basic Necromancy: Raises a certain percentage of slain Living enemies as Zombies. If Hero knows Basic Dark Magic, can cast Raise Zombie.
Advanced Necromancy: Raises a higher percentage of slain enemies as Skeletons or Zombies. If Hero knows Basic Dark Magic, can cast Raise Skeleton.
Expert Necromancy: Raises an even higher percentage of slain enemies as Husks or Ghasts (hero's choice, alongside Skeletons and Zombies). If Hero knows Advanced Dark Magic, can cast Raise Husk & Raise Ghast.
Note: The more powerful creatures you choose to raise, the less of them you'll get. They are ranked; Zombie -> Skeleton -> Husk -> Ghast -> Vampire -> Grave Maiden.
Perks:
Corpse Explosion: Explodes a corpse, dealing area of effect Dark & Earth damage to creatures surrounding it. Requires Basic Necromancy.
No Rest for the Wicked: Resurrects some of you (or the enemy's) slain Undead as part of your forces. Requires Advanced Necromancy & Basic Dark Magic.
Control Undead: Gains control of an enemy Undead stack for two rounds. Requires Expert Necromancy, Advanced Dark Magic & No Rest for the Wicked.
Master Reanimator: Increases the potency of Raise spells & Animate Dead. If Hero knows Expert Dark Magic & Summoning, can cast Death Calls. If Hero knows Expert Dark Magic & Sorcery, can cast Hand of Death. Requires Control Undead & Expert Dark Magic.
Lament: Reduces morale & luck for all living creatures on the battlefield, gaining greater potency according to the amount of creatures killed (fills a kind of gauge). Requires Advanced Necromancy & Basic Tactics or Basic Offense or Basic Defense.
Requiem: Increases Attack & speed for all friendly Undead creatures present on the battlefield, gaining greater potency according to the amount of creatures killed. Requires Lament.
Dirge of Decay: Deals Dark damage to all living creatures on the battlefield. Works nearly identically to the Dark spell Unholy Word, except the base damage is higher, it doesn't cost mana and grows more powerful the more creatures are killed. Requires Expert Necromancy, Advanced Tactics or Advanced Offense & Lament.
Sanguine Mysteries: Raises the highest percentage of slain enemies as Vampires or Grave Maidens (hero's choice, alongside previous creatures). If Hero knows Expert Dark Magic, can cast Raise Vampire & Raise Grave Maiden. Requires Expert Necromancy & Corpse Explosion, Expert Dark Magic or Expert Tactics or Expert Offense or Expert Defense & Master Reanimator or Dirge of Decay.
Dungeon Faction Skill: Black Art
Warlocks & Witches, Assassins
- Reserved -
Basic Black Art
Advanced Black Art
Expert Black Art
Perks:
Hidden
Force of Darkness
Crushing Dark
Shadow Puppet
Prey on the Weak
Poisoned Blades
No Mercy
Night Eternal
- Magic Skill: Sorcery -
Basic Sorcery
Advanced Sorcery
Expert Sorcery
Breach
Gift of Devastation
Secrets of Destruction
Conservation of Energy
Speed Casting
-Might Skill: Archery-
Basic Archery
Advanced Archery
Expert Archery
Perks:
Imbue Arrows
Piercing Shot
True Aim
Disengage
Volley!
-Might Skill: Offense-
Offense fills a broad nieche within the great Art of War. Masters of Offense- such as Ronin (Sanctuary Might), Barbarians, Demon Lords, Assassins (Dungeon Might) & Death Knights- learn & teach their troops how to inflict the greatest damage possible in the shortest amount of time.
Basic Offense: Increases all damage dealt by melee units and the hero's own attacks.
Advanced Offense: Further increases all damage dealt by melee units and the hero's own attacks.
Expert Offense: Greatly increases all damage dealt by melee units and the hero's own attacks.
Perks (5):
Mighty Blow: Further increases the damage dealt by the hero's own attacks & gives it a certain chance to Stun an enemy unit for 1 round and push it back 2 tiles. Requires Basic Offense.
Battleborn: Increases the minimum and maximum melee damage of your creatures by 1. Requires Basic Offense.
Shieldbreaker: Your creatures' melee attacks now ignore 20% of the enemy's Defense. Stacks with Wendigo's Diamond Claws. Requires Advanced Offense & Battleborn.
Lead the Charge: Whenever your hero attacks an enemy unit, a random number of your nearby creatures will also attack it. Requires Advanced Offense & Mighty Blow.
Overwhelming Assault: Gives all your creatures a certain chance to strike twice in melee, further increased by having more enemy creatures killed. Requires Expert Offense, Shieldbreaker and Lead the Charge.
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moonshade
Known Hero
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posted May 08, 2015 08:04 AM |
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About uncontrollable Luck
I kinda like it, it's definately original & a great change from previous games. Perhaps just Inferno (as embodiments of Chaos) should be able to infleunce Luck through a Perk or two- & that's it? An idea...
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