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Malax83
Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
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posted June 17, 2015 09:26 PM |
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Poll Question:
Diplomacy Poll
Snowball effect could be controlled with a function known as logarythmic or could be capped by an inverse function x/y with x<y.
Whatever if you re or not scientific, i tell you to pay attention on this :
Are you annoyed by the snowball effect in the Heroes series ?
Could the number of creature joining your force be capped by week ?
WIKI
Quote:
It is important to note that there are several factors influencing creatures joining. First of them is strength of your army compared to the enemy stack. Second is creatures attitude towards you - savage will never join, no matter other circumstances. Third is percentage of your army occupied by creatures of the same type that the enemy ones. Fourth and the last one is diplomacy skill. Some creatures will ask for money for joining, but most of them will not, especially if they are weak enough.
Simple question,
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 17, 2015 10:18 PM |
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Diplomacy is hard one to balance, it can be ridiculously overpowered or it might not help so much. You cannot plan ahead how many joiners there will be, if they will be from your own faction, if they have any synergy with your existing forces or even whether you will pay for them.
I do not like the idea of a weekly cap but I do believe this skill should have some limitations. I think the most important one is that joiners should cost you. Always. Secondly, the joining forces should not be higher than your existing army. If you can get joiners fast and easy then it would really get a snowball effect. Perhaps the amount of joiners should not always be the whole stack. Etc.
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ninjata12
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 17, 2015 10:38 PM |
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Week cap is bad idea, but I agree that Diplomacy is overpowered. It has always been and it is ruining the multiplayer games. I also think that you should ALWAYS pay for the joining stack. Another thing that can be done is to make only some of the units wanting to join, the rest just flee For example you attack 100 Sentinels, but only 10 want to join. Or maybe they can put some conditions on the table, for example they can say - "We don't like the Skeletons in your army, we want them out and we can join". Or perhaps the rest of your army might start hating them (even if they are friendly creatures) and your morale should SIGNIFICANTLY drop down.
Anyway - one thing is for sure - they should ask for a lot of gold! They should cost maybe 3 times more than if you buy them in your town. They are mercanaries, they are greedy...
So balancing is not that hard - make joining creatures ask for a lot of gold and make them really drop you morale down a lot.
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rohirrimelf
Hired Hero
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posted June 17, 2015 10:45 PM |
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Diddnt participate in the poll. Cause i did not find one relevant option to choose from.
I do like to have the option to gain friendly units when conditions are met. Like units from my own faction if i overpower them. What i dislike is if they join me for free. I would want to kill them or pay a sum of money. Free units i find to powerfull. I dont mind if there are no skill points to spend on diplomatic perks.
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draco
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 17, 2015 11:12 PM |
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Edited by draco at 23:14, 17 Jun 2015.
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I have a few opinions
Summary:
Diplomacy should not affect whether or not neutrals will join
Not all troops in neutral stacks should join
Diplomacy should affect the percentage willing to join
Diplomacy should affect the cost to join
Details:
In my mind, if a neutral army is willing to flee, then some number of those units would prefer to become mercenaries and join you (could be set a set amount say 20% +/-) at 100% per unit gold cost
Diplomacy could affect the number of troops willing to join. Diplomacy could increase the number of units willing to join by 25%, 50% and 100% (example. if you fight 100 sentinels, and 20 would be willing to join any hero strong enough to cause them to flee, a hero at lvl1 diplo would be offered 25, lvl2 30, lvl3 40)
Diplomacy could reduce the cost of the joiners by x% for a trait (50%, 100%?)
With this system, I think diplomacy will be much less chaotic, it would usually not be useless, but also it would be overpowered less often as well.
obviously my numbers would need work.
The reason I like this system is all players would have relatively the same opportunity to grow their army through diplomacy and most of the chance would disappear.
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Malax83
Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
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posted June 17, 2015 11:59 PM |
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rohirrimelf said:
Diddnt participate in the poll. Cause i did not find one relevant option to choose from.
Yes you re right. I would put the option
"to offer some gold to the neutral stack"
Maybe a new ability could allow you to not lose all of your money in the end of negociation, and get back the half of the amount if it has been a miss.
You could for example convert only one kind of creature, you can t bribe skeletons and a sentinel to joining your force the same day !
This roll could be interessant, for purists unfortunetly. Problem isn t solved yet, and to me, this is only the third and the last solution (after week capped and the old diplomacy skill).
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alexine
Known Hero
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posted June 19, 2015 04:08 PM |
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Why just not to scrap the whole diplomacy system ? It can be a game winner if big army joins you and i never liked it. I think the units should not join whatever, problem solved 
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We´re beautiful like diamonds in the sky ...
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PROJ
Known Hero
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posted June 19, 2015 05:54 PM |
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ninjata12 said:
Week cap is bad idea, but I agree that Diplomacy is overpowered. It has always been and it is ruining the multiplayer games. I also think that you should ALWAYS pay for the joining stack. Another thing that can be done is to make only some of the units wanting to join, the rest just flee For example you attack 100 Sentinels, but only 10 want to join. Or maybe they can put some conditions on the table, for example they can say - "We don't like the Skeletons in your army, we want them out and we can join". Or perhaps the rest of your army might start hating them (even if they are friendly creatures) and your morale should SIGNIFICANTLY drop down.
I really like the idea about conditional recruitment actually. It could potentially keep the power of your army the same but give you options to diversify/synergize with other troops. Not sure how it would jive lore-wise, but for example diplomacy could simply give you the option of replacing one or part of your stacks with one of the neutral stacks - let's say trade your golems for some stronghold brutes, for instance, or seraphs for titans. Something like that would be really cool and I think also lead to a lot more diversity and variety without having all the balance baggage from the traditional implementation of diplomacy.
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