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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: High level magic heroes
Thread: High level magic heroes [ This thread is 2 pages long: (1) 2 ]
Blade
Blade


Hired Hero
posted April 06, 2002 07:18 PM

High level magic heroes

My worry is that they are just to easily killed.They won't be likely to have a high number of hitpoints,but they ARE likely to have spells like mass slow,berserk,phantom image(If it is an order mage at any rate)

If you face a hero like that in a multiplayer battle,you'll be likely to take out that hero first thing,right?Before they can start casting all those nasty spells.One arrow from a,lets say lvl 15 barbarian with expert archery,and you can kiss your mage goodbye.

Ofcourse there are potions of immortality,that you can drink before battle,but that will only ressurect you once,right?And if you drink one of those each turn,you can't cast any spells.

Am I completly missing something here?Please tell me if I am
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RMS
RMS


Responsible
Legendary Hero
-ing yummy foods
posted April 06, 2002 10:04 PM

...hehe, never thought of that but yes it seems that may be true. Against the comp, rarely does anything like that ever happen to me, but whenever I'm faced with some powerful spell casters, or simple might heroes for that matter, I try to take them out early on if I can...and usually it isn't too much of a problem. However, this is usually because I mass my army into one large clump before I attack a hero...and the AI always seems to divide their troops unnecessarily...and they keep doing that thing to try to block me by putting a bunch of moderately powerful armies to block my way to their town...I wonder why they don't just combine together for one last stand.

...anyway, the thing though is that so far my heroes are also more powerful than theirs, and it's usually (unless I'm stronghold) that I use my own spellcaster to take our all of their heroes, unless I can spare another troop to do so. For one person, with defense and life added in, they're pretty hard to kill, and it usually takes more than one hit to kill him/her. I haven't played any normal scenarios yet so I dont' know if this is the case for sure, but it's what I suspect...weak armies would probably go against other weak armies and heroes, while strong versus strong, so either way they should live long enough.

...also, the easiest way if you're unsure, is to make sure you have a large army and siege their castles directly, or wait until they're bold enough to try and take you out in your's. Even if your hero dies in battle, if you win that battle in a siege, then your hero will automatically be resurrected and still gain experience. It's how I leveled up a few of my guys
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HappyPike
HappyPike


Known Hero
Pikeman
posted April 06, 2002 10:16 PM

Quote:
If you face a hero like that in a multiplayer battle,you'll be likely to take out that hero first thing,right?


Definitely.. no one wants the enemy hero to cast finger of death and kill 7 of your titans in one shot. Multiplayer is gonna be fun.

I suppose speed will be very important in MP games, because whoever can cast the first magic wins... (exaggerated)
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Anfi
Anfi


Known Hero
Computer Puppet
posted April 07, 2002 12:03 AM

with so many spells and the power they could be at, if u ever played heroes 3, and this is partly similar to it..well..more so to 3 then 2...  then it actually isnt an exaggeration that he who cast first, wins.
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Slava14
Slava14


Promising
Famous Hero
I am 16 now....
posted April 07, 2002 12:29 AM

I have only one thing to say - Heavenly Shield! It's a must for a life magic hero!
In case you don't know, it gives the caster additional HP's to kill for the battle, and on high levels it can reach to 200+, even 300 HP's, combined with defensive spells these HP's will be taken out slowly, thus your hero will be safe for more than a round. The only bugger is if he's killed before his 1st turn
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HappyPike
HappyPike


Known Hero
Pikeman
posted April 07, 2002 12:35 AM
Edited By: HappyPike on 7 Apr 2002

The problem is by the time your magic hero reaches high level, the battlefield is usually dominated by powerful units like angels and devils who can reach the other side in one turn. Any kind of shield is pretty much useless.

I expect people to make stupid rules for MP games such as NO HERO KILLING ALLOWED....  lol
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Thorman
Thorman


Adventuring Hero
posted April 07, 2002 04:53 AM

Any decent heroes should have AT LEAST expert combat if not GM for bigger maps.

In a campaign,i checked the defense of one of my general once,he had 121 and was still taking a beating versus large stacks or "tower shooters".

A hero w/o any defense is a dead hero,no matter how many hp's he has.

Even there,even if you have 200 defense,a bunch of genies would reduce any hero to ashes if they dont have any magic resistance.

In multiplayer,heroes will fall very fast,no matter how well balanced they are.
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RMS
RMS


Responsible
Legendary Hero
-ing yummy foods
posted April 07, 2002 11:01 AM

...I suspect map makers who want to empower the heroes and make them real leaders will probably start putting quite a few powerups here and there, to greatly increase the skills and overall consequence of true power.

...but then again, armies made up entirely of creatures might be interesting too
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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted April 07, 2002 12:14 PM

Quote:
My worry is that they are just to easily killed.They won't be likely to have a high number of hitpoints


The basic hitpoints you have only depend on your level. So the mage and combat character have the same base hitpoints.

There's no skill that raises hitpoints, but there are two skills which makes your mage last longer. These are Combat and Magic Resistance. So even for a mage you want to develope these two skills.

This is one of the reasons you keep getting offered Combat all the time. All heroes need it. Basic Combat you can always accept as it won't interfere with your advanced class. However, if you get advanced combat before you're an advanced class your character will become an advanced class magic skill + combat.

However, if you increase combat more than once then it may make it more difficult for you to guide your character to the advanced class you want, if you don't want a combat/magic class. (Two slots is usually overall easy to get for a character in another skill, but for each additional skill you put in combat you'll need one additional slot in the off class to become that class.)

So my advice is take magic resistance and combat when you can, but make sure that you don't alter your advanced class by picking them. The information on which class you become if you accept the skill is on the level-up screen so it should be easy to keep track of this.

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Abazagaroth
Abazagaroth


Hired Hero
Paladin of Knowledge
posted April 07, 2002 01:03 PM

A cute trick is to have fast units, especially shooters, and fast heroes (spread those +speed gems around!), and a life based caster with sanctuary, particularly with very high speed. Cast sanctuary, wait on all your units, the enemy can't attack you at all and lose their turn since they are slower than you, then when they are done, you can go with your waited turns, rinse, repeat.

Honestly though, sanctuary seems WAY overpowered as it is. They really should patch it to work on only one creature at a time, like it is described in the manual. That would make it less potentially overpowering, and still useful.

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thebigunit_3...
thebigunit_3000


Hired Hero
Walking Dead
posted April 07, 2002 01:52 PM

Don't forget divine intervention, or guardian angel.  The former heals all units a whole lot (Proetha in the campaign healed 360 each), as well as ressurecting ALL heroes!!  The latter, guardian angel, is great for putting on high level creatures.  It grants creatures a certain number of lives in which they won't lose any guys (Proetha again gave 7 lives to any unit).  What is great is that this spell can also be cast on heroes.  Therefore, a couple of high level life magic spellcasters are vitrutally unstoppable!!

On a side note, though, steal all enchantments is a great spell also.  Imagine a life spellcaster casting lots of mass spells (Celes Armor, Mass Bless, Mass Ward, Prayer, Guardian Angel, etc.), then on spell steals ALL of these and puts it on their creatures.  Pretty powerful as well...  so many choices in this game!

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DonGio
DonGio


Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
posted April 07, 2002 02:52 PM

At the end of the life campaign, Lysander could easily take out quite large stacks of level 4 creatures on his own. I guess time will tell if the heroes will be cannon fodder or not.
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RMS
RMS


Responsible
Legendary Hero
-ing yummy foods
posted April 07, 2002 03:20 PM

...yeah, that's kinda what I meant. In the last few scenarios of that campaign, all I did was have my 4, 5 or 6 however many heroes go in and take everyone out by themselves...however, by that time they were alerady at a high level, and had many upgrades that may not necessarily be availiable in just one single scenario.
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Blade
Blade


Hired Hero
posted April 07, 2002 07:26 PM

immortality potions

quote:

"Just a note on those potions of immortality,I always buy a couple asap and have my heroes drink them"

Is the effect from immortality potions cumulative?If so,I'm obviously not worried about keeping my mage alive anymoresounds a bit too good to be true,though.
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HappyPike
HappyPike


Known Hero
Pikeman
posted April 07, 2002 07:54 PM
Edited By: HappyPike on 7 Apr 2002

Quote:
Is the effect from immortality potions cumulative?If so,I'm obviously not worried about keeping my mage alive anymoresounds a bit too good to be true,though.


No, you can only use one immortality potion on your hero at a time.
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Camelnor
Camelnor


Famous Hero
Also known as Blue Camel
posted April 07, 2002 10:17 PM

"There's no skill that raises hitpoints, but there are two skills which makes your mage last longer."
Yes, Djive is right, all hero types get hp when they level up, so barbarians get no more for levelling up than mages.

"These are Combat and Magic Resistance. So even for a mage you want to develope these two skills. "
I have to disagree... this is the Main Reason why they made Heroes 4 like they did... if you are going to be any kind of magic hero who has any sort of power, you will have to develop different magic skills to the master and grandmaster level, and not combat and other might skills...
Therefore I think it is a bad idea to develop combat and magic resistance, unless you are a Level 20 mage(which you rarely get that high before winning) and have already developed your magic skills fully...
Because, as has been pointed out before, a jack-of-all-trades is bad in Heroes 4 (unless all those trades are grandmaster, of course)
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Blade
Blade


Hired Hero
posted April 07, 2002 10:48 PM

I agree with Camelnor here,you have to focus your skills on either might or magic.Unless you're playing a map with lots of learning stones,power ups etc.It will all depend on what kind of maps all the creative spirits in ToH will make,i suppose
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RMS
RMS


Responsible
Legendary Hero
-ing yummy foods
posted April 07, 2002 10:56 PM

...maybe the atmosphere is getting to your head. Always remember that not all map makers partake in the communal ToH bowl
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Blade
Blade


Hired Hero
posted April 07, 2002 11:07 PM

My apologies if I offended anyone.However I do play in ToH and b@stard tourney,and get all my maps from there.So for myself atleast,my statement is true
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thebigunit_3...
thebigunit_3000


Hired Hero
Walking Dead
posted April 08, 2002 12:07 AM

I have to disagree with Camelnor, to an extent.  To be a truely powerful mage, one has to focus only on magic skills.  However, it is much easier to survive a beating from ranged attacks and spells with these skills.  Magic resistance is definitely a great skill.  In my opinion, most heroes should have this skill, at least to the Advanced level (50% resistance), so that no superpowerful spell wipes them out before they have a chance to fire off a shot.

Sure, potions of immortality help, but they only to so much good.  Also, the Chaos spell Disentegrate (Lvl. 5) will almost always kill your hero, unless you have magic resistance.  (This spell really kills, becuase it does not allow a hero to ressurect until after combat!)

Just my two cents

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