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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Hero specializations..if they want to hear us, let`s make an effort for the franchise
Thread: Hero specializations..if they want to hear us, let`s make an effort for the franchise This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted September 26, 2015 11:47 AM
Edited by natalka at 10:46, 27 Sep 2015.

Hero specializations..if they want to hear us, let`s make an effort for the franchise

Limbic, promised to look in the matter. They are good programmers and dedicated to the project. However they don`t have the insight and experience from playing heroes series for so long. I propose we make a vote for each and every specialization here and then we push them to code our changes. We can invent a list of spec. even better than H5 one as a community and I am sure it will be not so hard to code.

Limbic, those suggestions will be based on our experience and bear in mind that decisions were made after voting and elaborate discussions.

1. Creature specialists

My suggestion is elite specialists get +1 Might & +1 Defense per every 2 levels of the hero while core specialists get the same and a special ability.

* For example Masfar (golem specialty and gargoyle) also increases their speed by +1.
* Edric(wolf specialty) can give +3 hp to wolves.

* Sinithala(Dryad specialty) - since Earth magic is the worst school and Sinithala is a Magic Hero I propose dryads to have the following effect : as long as the stack is still alive the hero casts earth spells with +6 Magic.

2. Zoltan

His specialty was quite interesting. We want memorable characters so no doubt we would like his specialty returned again - the hero has a chance to block a spell in the enemy spellbook. This chance increases by hero level.


3. Disciple of Light

Now when we have Zoltan who sounds like a strong hero. Why not have the light magic specialist have blind effect on his light magic direct damage spells. Again based on hero level the chance to blind increases. Like it was in CB1 and they removed it because it proved too strong but maybe 'THE DISCIPLE OF LIGHT' deserves to have that ability. Again we can nerf from CB1 - at level 30 he has 35% chance to blind.

4. Explorer

Right now explorer specialty gives Native terrain ability which is good for secondary heroes. But I think better those heroes start with Snatch instead. This is a really minor change. Moreover their movement might be increased by 1% for every 2 levels.

5. Artillery Master

Starts with improved durability = boring. Let`s increase damage of ballista by +X for every 2 levels of the hero and healing capacity of the tent by Yhp. We will have a real specialized warmachines hero.

6. Weakness Adept

Instead casting Weakness at a higher rank which is useless once he reaches Master I propose creatures under weakness also get their defense reduced by hero level.

7. Stone Skin Adept

Same as above regarding stone skin. My proposition sounds maybe a bit OP but Earth is the weakest school and I checked there will be no overlapping with Necro heroes because they can`t have earth.

' creatures under stone skin gain the ability 'putrid bones' (creatures attacking receive 1 earth damage per creature in the friendly stack).'
Of course the name 'putrid bones' should be changed. It would not be a game breaker but certainly nice to cast on friendly core units . They already have this mechanic so it would be copy/paste.

8. Fire bolt specialist

Continuing the crap from above I propose his fire dmg spells to be armor reducing per hero level. It has been done before - fire to reduce armor.  Maybe -2 defense per 5 levels.

9. Gladiator

+4 Attack from game start = boring and OP for first few days.No room for development, no striving to levelup faster to get more bonus. Here I propose +1 attack for every 5 levels starting on level 1. In the end the hero might have 2 attack more but it will not be a big deal.


These come from top of my head. I am sure you can invent more. I like the idea of creature specialists giving their creatures certain stats or abilities at threshold levels but let`s keep it rather simple or we will get even worse in the end. I heard Limbic had problem with map balance because they made their maps already bearing in mind current specialists. I am sure balance would not be lost as those specialists really shine only at high levels.

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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted September 26, 2015 11:54 AM

reserved

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Herry
Herry


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
100% Devil
posted September 26, 2015 12:14 PM

For starters, I suggest a QP when it becomes more complete (e.g when you put more suggestions).

May I ask, why does everyone like the creature specialists? I played with such heroes, and trust me, they didn't do much.

As for artillery specialization, Heroes 3 is the best for that. Combined with the heroes 3 style artillery it scales dynamically based on how much you "feed" your hero. Depending on the player, the ballista could range from outright useless to very important.

For Explorer, I'm not sure how it currently works. And I need to know how it works in order to make a suggestion for improvements.

For "Disciple of Light", even at level 30, 35% chance is a bit too much. I think it's better off as 25%/30%. That five percent we're talking about does make some difference, after all.

For creature specialists, however, I have a suggestion. I've never seen a creature specialty which adds morale. I mean, if you think about it, it would make sense - Creatures will have higher morale if the one who leads them specializes in them -, no?

I will think about the last 2. Finally, I'd like to thank you, you deserve some credit, because from what I see, you have a really active role in this forum, specifically, you always find ways to improve this game.

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 26, 2015 12:21 PM
Edited by Stevie at 12:23, 26 Sep 2015.

I think that before you go on to create specializations, you'll have to at least decide on a philosophy or some general guidelines.

I'd say that the current creatures specializations made us realize on thing: quality over quantity. Increasing production feels really bland while increasing attributes feels a lot of fun. Another thing is uniqueness, the more the better. You wouldn't want heroes that can only boost your creature's stats, you want some to have interesting abilities like spellblock, poisoning enemies, effects on spells, skill improvements, etc. Lastly, no useless specs and no-brainers either. Specializations have to feel useful, especially with an eye on actual combat.

I'd also like to post this quote as an idea that I found quite intriguing:

Micutz said:
I liked the way Heroes 5 managed the specializations. But what if, instead of flat bonuses, a specialization would evolve with the hero? For example, Edric could start with + 5 production to griffins, but then at level 5 could unlock + 1 attack to griffins every X levels. Then, when he's high enough, give the battle dive ability to griffins. I think that way it would be much more interesting.

____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler

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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted September 26, 2015 12:26 PM
Edited by natalka at 12:29, 26 Sep 2015.

Creature Specialists

I like them because you get attack/defense values of champion creatures on an elite creature. You can promote core creatures from support units to a viable force which opponent has to consider. It would not be the same final fight if you face Masfar golems. Imagine Tyris Cavaliers etc.

Explorer

Currently the specialty just gives you a governor ability (10% more movement in area of control). This is an ability for secondary heroes. While some may argue that we need heroes in tavern who are more secondary heroes alike I would say you can always take that hero and only with one level up get that Native terrain ability. If want to use that hero as a main he/she better have increase in movement points by level like old logistics heroes.

Disciple of Light

Do you know that blind is for one turn only?

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Herry
Herry


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
100% Devil
posted September 26, 2015 12:41 PM

I thought it was for 2... Anyway, if it's the case, I think a 33% would do.

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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted September 26, 2015 01:00 PM

Direct damage spells from light school can be buffed if you take certain abilities and now reduce Might & Defense stat for 3 turns.

What should that hero include in the end. I think one of the three has to go. There are 2 combinations

1) +6 Magic when casting Light spells and change the ability in Light Magic tree to give % to blind instead of reduce stats.

2) Give % to blind on top of reduced stats.

I personally favor option 1 because the hero will be more versatile and not only specialize on the damage spells in the Light tree. This hero specialization will not beef up GM in any way because GM is tied to buff spells on friendly troops and not direct damage.

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted September 26, 2015 02:44 PM

Stevie said:
I'd also like to post this quote as an idea that I found quite intriguing:

Micutz said:
I liked the way Heroes 5 managed the specializations. But what if, instead of flat bonuses, a specialization would evolve with the hero? For example, Edric could start with + 5 production to griffins, but then at level 5 could unlock + 1 attack to griffins every X levels. Then, when he's high enough, give the battle dive ability to griffins. I think that way it would be much more interesting.


I'll make some shameless promotion of my own thoughts on heroes specializations back in July

Fixed small bonuses at certain levels should be easier to balance than +% / +x every y levels, not to mention the possibility of offering different bonuses.
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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted September 26, 2015 02:51 PM

Storm-Giant, please write exactly what bonuses on what creatures and on what levels. I am sure Limbic will embrace finished ideas more than just propositions.

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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted September 26, 2015 02:54 PM

natalka said:
Storm-Giant, please write exactly what bonuses on what creatures and on what levels. I am sure Limbic will embrace finished ideas more than just propositions.


Even if it was a design choice, they did propose three artwork of vampire and lich.

That and they may just say "too much to code".

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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted September 26, 2015 03:34 PM

That's why I propose to have simple +1might spec. Ubi_Oak told me those are easy to mod. So let's keep it simple yet interesting. You can't have your cake and eat it. I love this phrase..

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted September 26, 2015 03:46 PM

natalka said:
Storm-Giant, please write exactly what bonuses on what creatures and on what levels. I am sure Limbic will embrace finished ideas more than just propositions.

Different stat bonuses, enhancing an existing ability of theirs, a bit of extra growth (not on level 1 for obvious reasons), unique changes (such as giving un-upgraded Griffins ability to dive). Your limit is your imagination.

I'm doubtful they would, too many great ideas have gone to waste already to hold any hope
____________

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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted September 26, 2015 04:03 PM

These are schematics. I am aware of them. I think they will say too much code. I encourage you to say precisely about dryads, pixies, golems, wolves etc. Layout exactly your ideas for each creature. If u think your ideas will go to waste don't bother.

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Kayna
Kayna


Supreme Hero
posted September 26, 2015 04:59 PM

Na. I'm not posting in this thread. I'm not writing to Ubisoft for things just like I'm not writing to Santa Claus for Christmas.

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Pawek_13
Pawek_13


Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
posted September 26, 2015 07:16 PM

All I've wanted to say was pointed out here, so I won't repeat myself. Basically, I'm fine with some heroes having the most standard of all specializations (+1 to defence and attack every two levels for unit x,) as long as there are also some other, more refined ones.

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted September 26, 2015 07:18 PM

Kayna said:
Na. I'm not posting in this thread. I'm not writing to Ubisoft for things just like I'm not writing to Santa Claus for Christmas.


hey that's not fair, Santa Claus is much more likely to give us a great game than Team Erwin is lol
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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted September 26, 2015 08:27 PM

Lets just stick to heroes 5 specials for now.
Since they took the approach of so many heroes classes(for better or for worse) to create diversity(even if they failed), we could make this option better instead of trying to make it useless.
What i mean is that, if the classes were as diverse as they were supposed to be,the specializations do come as an extra,and not the basic reason to choose a hero. Even now,i chose a hero because of what he/she could learn,and after that i checked the special.
Now if we had diverse classes and H5 specials that would be heaven.
Long story,short, lets go with the flow.
I ranted too, about specials, and now i realize that the skillwheels need fixing first. Then the specials. But alas, we are going to have yet another half-assed feature. Like some line ups;p half enroth,half ashan and in the end, viva le cirque de soleil!!
For me we should rant about classes first. Then specials.
Of course heroes 5 specials would be sweet,but i d rather see more diversity in clases first since it's now a thing,instead of making it a useless feature. Lets hope they do the hard part first(specials) and later we get better classes since it's super easy to change.
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TD
TD


Promising
Famous Hero
posted September 26, 2015 10:36 PM

Ideally we would have unique bonuses for creature specialists like for example cabir-specialist could have:

lvl 1 basic cabir can repair & + 3 atk
lvl 5 +5 initiative
lvl 10 + 2 hp(maybe +2 extra ammo if we ever get limited ammo back)
lvl 15 + 5 atk
lvl 20 + 10 cabir production from all sources(global)
lvl 25 +1 damage
lvl 30 no range-penalty.

Alternatively give him simple +1 atk/def every 2 levels OR if we stick with growth then + 15 cabirs / week increasing by 5 every 5 levels(so at level 30 you would get 15+5+5+5+5+5+5= 45 extra cabirs per week.

Ultimately I don't really care so much is devs fix the specializations. I just really hope they will add us the possibly to create them ourselves with template:
-choose spec type(magic/resource/unit/stat/effect/skill)
-Choose initial bonus(or multiple ones)
-Choose bonuses given every x levels
-Allow additional bonuses to be given at specific levels(like in my first sample)

This would allow players to create unique heroes. Not all the options need to be applied to each hero, but it would be nice to have the possibility to create deep complex heroes that way.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted September 26, 2015 11:03 PM

Hero specialisations can make nice differences between Heroes, but I am not sure how you can fit them in with the current Skillwheels. The Skillwheels themselves are already pretty much a specialisation.

The first thing they'd need to do is create a truckload of Hero names more and assign them to the various classes. Let's say 5 or 10 Heroes per Skillwheel / Class. Then you can make meaningful specialisations that provide a unique flavor to a given Hero, that sets it apart from other Heroes in the same class.

That being said, I do feel that specialisations should grow with level. As such, they should either be percentage based, or provide extra goodies with certain levels (the example of Edric and Battle Dive was a good example here).

One idea for Creature Specialists that I didn't yet see getting mentioned is that they can recruit them cheaper than other Heroes. Say they get 1% or 2% cost reduction on purchasing them, per level. A level 30 Hero could then recruit his specialty creature for 30% or 60% less than other Heroes. This not only counts for Towns, but also external Dwellings. Encounters with those creatures should also turn out more favorable (higher chance to join, lower joining cost, etc ...), though this should be carefully balanced.

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TD
TD


Promising
Famous Hero
posted September 26, 2015 11:15 PM

Maurice said:
One idea for Creature Specialists that I didn't yet see getting mentioned is that they can recruit them cheaper than other Heroes. Say they get 1% or 2% cost reduction on purchasing them, per level. A level 30 Hero could then recruit his specialty creature for 30% or 60% less than other Heroes. This not only counts for Towns, but also external Dwellings. Encounters with those creatures should also turn out more favorable (higher chance to join, lower joining cost, etc ...), though this should be carefully balanced.


I'm not fan of that idea unless devs tuned up the prices. I mean in the first demo I felt like Scrooge McDuck having boundless gold/resources(on hard/heroic). The 2nd beta went to better direction, but aside 1-2 turns early on I was pretty much Flintheart Glomgold. Still had way too much resources and gold available so getting discount on single unit would ultimately make no difference, be that 1% or 100% since I got excess resources anyway. Only at 3rd or 4th town I was having trouble recruiting all from everywhere, but given how much gold I had in storage it was still doable. To me such specialization would feel of very little value in the state the 2nd beta was at very least.

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