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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Let's discuss... The War Machines!
Thread: Let's discuss... The War Machines!
Hermes
Hermes


Famous Hero
posted October 30, 2015 02:40 AM

Let's discuss... The War Machines!

Each faction in Heroes 7 has its own set of war machines:

1) Catapults - exactly the same stat-wise between the factions.
2) Attack war machines - they basically shoot, I think their power does differ between factions, but some abilities are unique when certain racial perks are obtained.
3) Support war machines - now, this is the most interesting type, since some support war machines get uniques abilities when certain Warfare perk is obtained.

Some factions have a blended attack/support war machine, not sure if a design or budged desicion.

Out of all six factions, only Necropolis and Stronghold do not have a dedicated support war machine. Further more, only Stronghold war machine does not do anything special at all, even when "Perfect Warfare" is unlocked.

Curious to see your opinion on this, and I will try to update this topic with exact stats and abilities of each Faction war machines when I have more time.


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TD
TD


Promising
Famous Hero
posted October 30, 2015 07:48 AM

You mean those piles of junk in the background that do something? Well they are utter trash if you got no skills on them. If you got skills only to expert they are utter trash and waste of skill-points. If you got them leveled up to GM you will regret it after a month as you could've spent them on something much more useful meaning you probably picked a wrong hero.

The problem is that you only get the one-time boosts on them and after you got them that's all you will ever have. If you can't max them up they are of no worth at all. They also do not scale at all for later game. They do not ever become as efficient early creep-tool as magic. Simply put they are just waste of space(that prolong your battles with their turns). Only with Anastasya they are good since they cost you no skills and help with early creep with no losses on necro to put the skeleton/ghost snowball rolling. I just can't see the war machines viable except on some tiny maps I never play on. They become obsolete way too fast for me to even consider them as viable option.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted October 30, 2015 07:57 AM

Have support warmachines been buffed any? Iirc only haven tent can resurrect and only if you level up warfare.

I recall that both sylvan and stronghold regenerate, academy heals, dungeon causes pre-emptive damage, not sure about necro. Do they get any extra effect from warfare?

I find the decision of having two separate warmachine building pretty terrible, especially when support warmachines are not on par with offensive ones. They aren't even well represented in the skill tree. And even if they were more or less equal.. how much would they have to resurrect without being broken?  Because without resurrection they suck. I don't like the idea of trying to balance ballista damage vs tent resurrection because they are just not comparable and building both early is very inconvenient.

Man it's like they took all the fun out of playing with warmachines
____________
A lot like squirrels. Squirrels are pretty much the crocodiles of the trees.
-Bliz

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 30, 2015 08:28 AM

Don't like how they play - useless.
Don't like having to build 2 buildings, sometimes at the expense of another even - bullsnow design.
Don't like the Warfare skill - bad investment, no hero scaling.

Not fun at all.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler

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Hermes
Hermes


Famous Hero
posted October 30, 2015 08:32 AM

I somewhat agree with you TD.. However some war machines are much more useful than others, for example even lvl 1 Namtaru can make Skeletons more powerful.

Let me think Elvin..

1) Haven ballista - nothing special at all. The sister - can heal twice with Righteousness perk and resurrect with perfect warfare.

2) Academy pyramid - adds Metamagic if specced in it, Healing Tent - also heals(resurrects?) Constructs.

3) Dungeon Watchers - apply DoT, Faceless apply damage when attacked in melee, this is also upgradable with Perfect Warfare.

4) Sylvan ballista - applies Nature Mark if specced, Mother Treant resurrects Dryads.

5) Necromancers Namtaru - AoE Attack if specced in Necromancy perk, adds damage buff as its support function.

6) Stronghold Dreamweavers, just regular attack and regular heal(regeneration?) as a support ability.

Note that constructs war machines get destroyed by Earthquake, whereas Dreamweavers for example do not.

Can also try to gather different Moats effects here.


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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted October 30, 2015 08:45 AM

Speaking of moats I have seen choices between defensive building vs other special buildings. This is simply not an interesting or even a meaningful choice.. I'd much rather have the option to customize my defenses without bringing random things in the mix.
____________
A lot like squirrels. Squirrels are pretty much the crocodiles of the trees.
-Bliz

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MeTaNoV
MeTaNoV


Hired Hero
In Heroes We Trust!
posted October 30, 2015 09:14 AM

Hermes said:

5) Necromancers Namtaru - AoE Attack if specced in Necromancy perk, adds damage buff as its support function.


Dark Touch seems also to inhibit retaliation, but since it is not part of the description, I assumed it currently as a beneficial bug...

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted October 30, 2015 10:06 AM

Well hermes put it right. The ideas behind warchines are cool. They just need to scale somehow with the hero level or the might/magic  stat.
The idea that the support unit of every faction is unique is really cool.
No need to exaggerate -.-
And the fact that i can't have it all (moat and warmachine for example in some cases) is intriguing and forces me to think my choices twice,and make do with them.
____________

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TD
TD


Promising
Famous Hero
posted October 30, 2015 10:30 AM

ChrisD1 said:
And the fact that i can't have it all (moat and warmachine for example in some cases) is intriguing and forces me to think my choices twice,and make do with them.


Isn't the whole problem that you have no choice in town-charts...? If I got choice between defensive and general bonus I always go for general bonus meaning the other might as well never have existed. Basically all "choice"-buildings have a clear choice for me which is better(or in some cases they are both meaningless). It would have been way better design to make it choice between defense/defense or useful/useful buildings. With the current choices I just don't feel like they offer any realistic choice.

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted October 30, 2015 11:15 AM

I think the opposite.why have two choices for the same thing? You might as well don't have a choice.
The only example i remember is academy. You either get to have a mini pyramid to help you set up meta magic or towers(i think).
I liked that i had to choose and think what i would do in case of a siege if i get the pyramid. The enemy was close so in the end i chose
Towers. Variety and choice are different things in some cases.

____________

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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted October 30, 2015 02:08 PM

I don't know why they put that crap war cry attention in master level. It is useless without warfare skill point spending.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted October 30, 2015 02:45 PM

It just isn't worthy of its tier. Too situational.
____________
A lot like squirrels. Squirrels are pretty much the crocodiles of the trees.
-Bliz

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The_green_drag
The_green_drag


Supreme Hero
posted October 30, 2015 05:02 PM

Mother Trent can also add +2 movement and 10 speed if speced.

And also some catapults do more damage than other. If you look on the heropedia it shows the damage values. I think it was haven and stronghold with the best, dungeon as 2nd, and the rest tied as 3rd. Still really similar and boring though.

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted October 30, 2015 05:56 PM

natalka said:
I don't know why they put that crap war cry attention in master level. It is useless without warfare skill point spending.

And it almost never procs or i m doing smth wrong:/
____________

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vicheron
vicheron


Known Hero
posted October 31, 2015 07:01 AM

The necromancer war machine is the only good one since its support ability gives +1 damage per creature so it scales with army size.

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