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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: first strike spell?
Thread: first strike spell?
Krishhh
Krishhh


Adventuring Hero
still learning spells
posted April 11, 2002 09:33 PM

first strike spell?

This time they ave really messed up. There are 2(really 2 andanother two) spells that do exactly the same!!! First strike and snake strike!! And the same goes for mass versions. Am I wrong or have they really done it?
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kevyip
kevyip


Adventuring Hero
posted April 11, 2002 10:35 PM

Quote:
This time they ave really messed up. There are 2(really 2 andanother two) spells that do exactly the same!!! First strike and snake strike!! And the same goes for mass versions. Am I wrong or have they really done it?

I don't think they made a mistake.  I think they designed it this way deliberately, so the spell would be available to more towns and heroes.  The First Strike (or Snake Strike) is  probably going to be the most often-used spell because it's cheap to cast, lasts the whole combat, and has potentially great effects on the outcome of each attack.

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Darion
Darion


Promising
Famous Hero
posted April 12, 2002 01:24 AM

I agree with Krishhh. The magic schools are there because they are supposed to have unique spells... not clones of each other (i.e. wasp swarm, song of peace, blind etc. were the worst) That is simply because nature, order, life death, chaos will all have different ways of going about to get to the same end. I don't see why they had to have two first strike spells, like five different paralyzing spells and stuff... damage I can understand, but giving the same effect for all five schools? Yes handy, but not as strategic, which is what everyone seems to want.

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RMS
RMS


Responsible
Legendary Hero
-ing yummy foods
posted April 12, 2002 03:14 AM

...ah, I see. So when a burglar comes into your house one night pointing a gun at you, you must have already been prepared. Because you knew a well prepared thief would have a firearm of some sort, you don't wnat to be like him. Instead, you bought yourself a hunting knife to deal with such a problem...well, if you're the average Joe Shmo, that probably isn't going to be too much use.

...in another case, just because we all ahve to be special and totally not be like anyone else, we can't just take over some socialist country in the name of freedom, and instead of even creating another name for democracy, because it is already taken, you instead decide to create a dictatorship, just because there were actually no others around at the time?

...I don't see your logic at all.
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Camelnor
Camelnor


Famous Hero
Also known as Blue Camel
posted April 12, 2002 04:09 AM

well, the chaos and nature magics seem to have several spells in common.

haste and speed
first strike and snake strike
mass first strike and mass snake strike
confusion and wasp swarm

The same goes with any two schools you compare (except opposite ones)

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RMS
RMS


Responsible
Legendary Hero
-ing yummy foods
posted April 12, 2002 04:14 AM

...which I like. I mean hey, it's not like if I had two bananna nut rice puddings, I wouldn't share one with you. Well, actually in this case I guess I would have had one stolen from me...or we just bought it/borrowed it from the same place. I dig it
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Darion
Darion


Promising
Famous Hero
posted April 12, 2002 05:06 AM

Nononono RMS! See, if a burgalar comes into my house and he has a pistol, I would have some other weapon that is just as effective, but different, causing different effects. Such as perhaps a super-duper-high-tech-long-distance stun gun. And why would you want two banana puddings when you could have a banana pudding AND mocha cappaucino too? Something different but gives you just as much pleasure in a different way..?

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted April 12, 2002 05:38 AM

Well you see the spells may work the same like example Haste & speed exact same thing but can only get one from a starting castle.

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Tortoise
Tortoise


Known Hero
Master of Reptiles.
posted April 12, 2002 05:56 AM

Well... Necro is fairly unique i think....
NECROPOLIS ALL THE WAY YA YA YA YA!!!!!!!!
HAND OF DEATH RULES!!! WAAAAAAAAAA
So does Raise Vampires
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All living things have a history. The history of the Tortoise is long and rich.


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kevyip
kevyip


Adventuring Hero
posted April 12, 2002 04:30 PM

To Darion,

Quote:
I agree with Krishhh. The magic schools are there because they are supposed to have unique spells... not clones of each other

In H3, some spells, like the Magic Arrow spell, is available in all schools of magic.  Similarly in H4, there are spells that are more common and easier to get than others.

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Flashman
Flashman


Adventuring Hero
posted April 12, 2002 04:44 PM

It's called balancing and IMO it's perfectly okay.

/Flash

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Thunder
Thunder


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted April 12, 2002 09:08 PM

Quote:
Nononono RMS! See, if a burgalar comes into my house and he has a pistol, I would have some other weapon that is just as effective, but different, causing different effects. Such as perhaps a super-duper-high-tech-long-distance stun gun.


So, when you are still wondering where the trigger is, the burglar has already shot at you.
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Darion
Darion


Promising
Famous Hero
posted April 13, 2002 01:27 AM

K.. well then ferget the super-duper stun gun and replace it with telekinesis then.

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted April 13, 2002 01:34 AM

My fav for the first strike is the champions.
They are very strong & fast.
Plus you get twice as many then you do with angels plus.
They put a big hurt on an opponent & when you hit someone they are going to feel the pain
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brody
brody


Known Hero
Pathetic Loser
posted April 13, 2002 01:40 AM

I don't see why two schools wouldn't have similar spells.  Ice bolt does direct damage, and so does lightning.  Different elements, same end result.  In damage, it's easy to make minor changes (elemental damage), but with something as simple (and useful) as first strike, how can you make it different while still keeping the effect basically the same?

By that logic, spells should be divided up differently: Summoning, Damage, Healing/Protection, Divination, etc.  Maybe not a bad idea, but in the current scheme, it doesn't make sense to divide them like that.

If death only had "raise dead" types of spells, and life only had protective spells, I'd agree; but while all schools have a certain flavor for most spells, having a few similar spells in 2 or 3 schools isn't that big a deal.
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Krishhh
Krishhh


Adventuring Hero
still learning spells
posted April 13, 2002 08:38 PM

Similar, yes I agree, nothing wrong with that but so far these are the only two that are COMPLETELY identical.
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Darion
Darion


Promising
Famous Hero
posted April 14, 2002 02:20 AM

Quote:
I don't see why two schools wouldn't have similar spells.  Ice bolt does direct damage, and so does lightning.  Different elements, same end result.  In damage, it's easy to make minor changes (elemental damage), but with something as simple (and useful) as first strike, how can you make it different while still keeping the effect basically the same?

By that logic, spells should be divided up differently: Summoning, Damage, Healing/Protection, Divination, etc.  Maybe not a bad idea, but in the current scheme, it doesn't make sense to divide them like that.

If death only had "raise dead" types of spells, and life only had protective spells, I'd agree; but while all schools have a certain flavor for most spells, having a few similar spells in 2 or 3 schools isn't that big a deal.


Naw... what I meant is that because you have different schools of chaos, order, etc. each magic should be as unique as the towns in their strategies. They should remove the duplicates of spells altogether because it would not be part of the town's strategy. For example, since Nature's magic strategy is summoning, but also has snake strike, they should have removed first strike so Nature magic would have a unique spell rather than a clone tossed in among the summoning spells. The first strike spell could be replaced with something more in the lines of its magic.

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Cloak
Cloak

Tavern Dweller
Untouched by Lions
posted April 16, 2002 10:19 PM

Quote:
Similar, yes I agree, nothing wrong with that but so far these are the only two that are COMPLETELY identical.


They aren't COMPLETELY identical. They have different names.
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