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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Your opinions about dwarven fortress?
Thread: Your opinions about dwarven fortress?
Alef
Alef

Tavern Dweller
posted November 11, 2016 03:16 PM

Poll Question:
Your opinions about dwarven fortress?

A long, long time agou in waiting for an 5th expansion I took took part in Nival's contest of "create your own faction". But then didn't bought a Heroes 5 we were waiting and realy totaly forgot the gameing as life changed. Recently I needed new PC, then find an old Heroes 5 demo and well, went to seek some shop who still sells the games. Back in these backward times game CD's were sold in every supermarket.

Wow, Heroes 5 is unexpectedly good, just maybe the campaign is a bitt slow. Throught the necros have humour of doctor: "good news patient, you will die anyway but we will call your disease in your name". Orson somewhat lacks charisma Throught I haven't got till dwarves jet, just to King Tolghar.




Then I looked in internets what they say about Heroes. And they sayes that dwarf faction is almoust controversial. I looked in russian version of encyclopedia dramatica a collection of all things internets. And the article sayes that heroes community must blame themselves about dwarf faction with listing contest entries on what dwarves were based. And there were my work "Winter Town" and then "Glacier" and "Bastion".

In that Nivals's contest largest part of contest entries were about dwarfs and ice and then orcs coming in second. Probably that's why in the first expansion were dwarves.


In my contest entry I had describied new magic school a "runic magic" with each runic sign having both positive and negative effect and listed few rune based spells. And a special abilitie "dwarf beer": before a battle spend some resources an then increase characteristics. This combined had become the runic magic.

With lame units:
Winter Wolf War Wolf
Dwarf Archer - Dwarf Sniper
werewolf priestess - Werecat priestess
Pikedwarf Axedwarf
Icebird - Thunderbird
Yeti Yotun
Mamonth White Mamonth


The Heroes:

A meme:

What is from this:



My mammonth then had special ability, charge with sutch power than enemy unit is thrown back by a few cells and can't retaliate. This sounds as bear "paw strike". Bear cavalery was a local meme. An I had put a picture of chukchi (like eskimo) archer of how dwarf archer could look like. And that picture looks pretty mutch as dwarf harpoon thrower.


Then described how dwarves should look, how they should compete with low speed (sutch as instead having "swift mind") and that they could trade with an academy as they need a lot of metals like titanium but should very mutch don't like dark elves becouse elves are too different and of competition for underground. Well dwarf females there looks like that.


Throught unit composition of Fortress looks more like a "Glacier" who in competition were 3rd: All the dwarfs were frozen in ice exept of few, who in centuries had become a mountain giants, throught not particulary big but gigantic in strengts. Then these giants defrigerated the dwarves and become a leaders of them. It looks like fortress units:

Frost Spirit (Ice Spirit)  
Battle Dwarf (Dwarf Veteran)
Dwarf Trailblazer (Dwarf Trapper)  
Runetracer (Runnist)  
Elder Giant (Giant Gatekeeper)
Chimera (Chimera Queen)  
Ice Avatar (Crystal Avatar)  

And the Bastion described clans of red haired dwarves loving grey and bronze colour, worshiping dragon of fire and living in town build in and around mountain:
Kobold Miner/Kobold Defender
Dwarf Miner/Dwarf Defender
Dwarfish Smith/Dwarfish Hammerer
Dwarf Hersir/Dwarf Jarl
Troll/Mountain Troll
Roc/Thunderbird (Great Eagle/Roc)
Yeti (Yotun)/Frost Giant
Bronze Dragon/Gold Dragon
 
This together looks as HoMM 5 dwarves.

I think in gaming there is not so much worked out dwarves like are the elves. It mostly is a single dwarf with hammer and that don't works for a strategy. So here are interesting sociological moments.

Do there are any continue of these idea aka dwarves with mamonths and runic magic in other games?

And what's so controversial about dwarf faction?

They are kind of like Trumps, red haired and lots of flame. ha ha Throught in election polls popularity were just like of other factions exept that people likes dark side of necros and dungeon with witches in battlefield walking like on podium and folks don't like inferno faction of red steroid users.
Well I 'm 10 years too late But is there more of runic magic and dwarfs with mammonths in games?


Old Nival forum have all of this in russian. They just delated their forums. So some people claim that they hide information how the dwarves were made.

http://www.zzima.com/forum/index.php?threads/31404/
http://www.zzima.com/forum/index.php?threads/32262/

This probably is the only post I would do here. But I could resist to put a poll. In my country there are people who actualy thinks a magic signs do some of these things. it's close to the Sweden but it's not the runes.


Responses:
It's great!
They are good, but as most of other factions
There something I like about them and something I don't
Dwarves are lame
They are like Trump ha ha red and very controversial
They are too slow but rune magic are great
There are balance issues...
Too many dwarfs. Heroes is about a creatures
Poll is what is lame
View Results!

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted November 11, 2016 03:44 PM

I enjoy their gameplay but honestly, only a master troll could make such an annoying faction .

I mean..

Rune of charge lol.
Both bears can make a unit skip its turn. White bears can make 3 units skip their turn while blackbears can stun all adjacent units with rune of battlerage.
Battleragers can also make enemies skip their turn.
Almost half their units immune to armageddon.
Dwarven luck seriously screws up dark and destructive.
Runes can steal light, cleanse dark or make immune to destructive elements.
Stormstrike + battlerage + luck can potentially annihilate half the enemy army at the beginning of combat.
Lineup is actually composed of 6 dwarves and 1 dragon. Lol.

It's ridiculous no matter how you look at it
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Alef
Alef

Tavern Dweller
posted November 11, 2016 03:57 PM

Yes it's unbalanced. I too did't liked too mutch dwarves and no creatures in unit line. Bersekers are almoust a waste, maybe a feed for necromancers. I think Heroes 3 were so attractive becouse of all this creatures.

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dredknight
dredknight


Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted November 11, 2016 04:36 PM
Edited by dredknight at 16:38, 11 Nov 2016.

Check this video at 3:22. This is before we balanced fortress units, runes and heroes V attack/defense bonus.


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Alef
Alef

Tavern Dweller
posted November 11, 2016 04:50 PM

Yeah I noticed that. On single player map this is not so important as it just allows to defeat the hordes of neutral dragons without any retaliation.

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yogi
yogi


Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
posted November 11, 2016 07:23 PM

theres something i like about them, but too many dwarfs.


thread lead me to research that yeti and ettin are derived from jotun, thanks.
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zaio-baio
zaio-baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted November 11, 2016 11:18 PM
Edited by zaio-baio at 23:28, 11 Nov 2016.

Dwarves have a lot of potential, but suffer from mediocre early game and high cystal prices. Logistics being a 2% skill doesnst help either. Warmachines are a common skill, yet no dwarf starts with warmachine skill or ballista/1st aid tent. Speaking of which the ballista is sold for 4 500 gold in the dwarven towns.
P.S Dwarves are rarely picked in multiplayer games on ubi/rmg maps, because they are likely to be underfed in the final battle (less units, less arts, lower hero lvl). Thunder thanes work lovely vs noobs/AI, but wont do much vs good player. However, if the dwarves dont fall behind too much during the early and midgame they are a powerhouse in the lategame.

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Mediczero
Mediczero


Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
posted November 12, 2016 12:07 AM

From a conceptual standpoint, I love this faction. Probably because I just love the idea of classic fantasy dwarfs and norse mythology, and this hit right home. Though I'll admit that an lineup of 6/7 dwarfs are over the top racial.

To make it more aligned with the thematic factions of old, I propose a mountain faction based around the hardy creatures native to the cold north (dwarfs, jotunns, mammoths, yetis, you name it), as well as the use of rune magic. And name it Keep or Ringfort, just so we can have the swamp fortress back. But alas, that is for the alter of wishes to discuss.

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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted November 12, 2016 04:30 PM

I like this Fortress but Battle-rage and Charge are way over the top to me. I never liked the fact that a Rune-factions learns normal magic versus having more Runes to use.

That makes me think of Barbarians and their Horde's Anger which of course is pure-magic coming from a faction that is supposed to hate magic?

For me, these two factions but much more the Dwarves could have been fleshed-out more and improved.

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Alef
Alef

Tavern Dweller
posted November 15, 2016 05:17 PM

zaio-baio said:
Dwarves have a lot of potential, but suffer from mediocre early game and high cystal prices. Logistics being a 2% skill doesnst help either.  

I tried to get ultimate skill, and without cheating it's pretty imposible. As you need logistics.
Mediczero said:
From a conceptual standpoint, I love this faction. And name it Keep or Ringfort, just so we can have the swamp fortress back.

Forge could fit them the best. But tacticaly probably that was a fortress. If I remeber corectly this were a defence based town and had walker as 7th unit.

markkur said:

That makes me think of Barbarians and their Horde's Anger which of course is pure-magic coming from a faction that is supposed to hate magic?

I think they decided that they need something like magic users have becouse then they would be too simple. In sports loud *$*#^ to the teem can do a magic Never played this throught.

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Mediczero
Mediczero


Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
posted November 15, 2016 05:27 PM
Edited by Mediczero at 17:28, 15 Nov 2016.

Alef said:
Mediczero said:
From a conceptual standpoint, I love this faction. And name it Keep or Ringfort, just so we can have the swamp fortress back.

Forge could fit them the best. But tacticaly probably that was a fortress. If I remeber corectly this were a defence based town and had walker as 7th unit.

Well for the forge bit I'll assume you just mean the name (if not, then I'll say chaos dwarfs)

But yeah, I guess the H3 fortress was kinda defensive, yes it also had 2 fliers and was more themed around the beasts and their abilities. Hydras was great though.

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Alef
Alef

Tavern Dweller
posted November 15, 2016 05:40 PM

Now all have a lots of abilities. But lots of creatures were more fun. With small magical humans they don't look enought different. Probably they just don't like name forge becouse of things associated with it.

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Alef
Alef

Tavern Dweller
posted November 22, 2016 05:02 PM


So far I found just this development. Looks like :blackbear riders":


Then I was thinking of nordic, fino-ugric and northern natives as basis for dwarves. They added scots highlanders. It's very mutch a Disciples with dwarven clans.

But realy dwarves could be a neandarthalians. Neadarthalians had gene of red hair, they were short, stocky, muscular and had strange faces. Just like dwarves and well, folklore actualy could had kept the memories about this human species. Dragons could be a dinosaur fosils

Elves are just too frail for me. When storm giants crushes it's enemies with an axe and it feels on the recieving side it's just right in my taste. Just maybe they put too mutch on xenophobia.

This was how this was made:
Sylvan = celts + N american indians and a bit of east asia.
Shadow league = tatars + bondage fetishism
Academy = middle east + India.
Necropolis = Romania + a bitt of germany and gothics.
Haven = France.
Inferno = Vatican (sorry Roman empire) + Etna. Coliseum is the one thing I like about them.
Stronghold = Mongolians + afro americans.

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Cortes
Cortes


Adventuring Hero
posted December 03, 2016 11:15 AM

I like them, how they are.


Except the Bear Rider and the giant, flying/teleporting dwarf.

I want my Bears without a rider and the other one is simply...the worst.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted December 03, 2016 02:27 PM

What's wrong with a giant teleporting dwarf ^^ I don't know how advanced the lore was at the time but the thane current form are the H7 giants. Which are a bunch of ritualistic suicide dwarves reborn from the volcano they jumped into, curtesy of their dragon God patron. Lol.
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Being human is a roller coaster ride of emotions during rainstorms and sunshine, sprinkled with moments when you can almost reach the stars.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted December 03, 2016 02:35 PM

It's like how the smaller power ranger zords combine into the bigger megazord. Except they have to jump in a volcano and pray hard that this will work. Ashan originalityat work ^^
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Being human is a roller coaster ride of emotions during rainstorms and sunshine, sprinkled with moments when you can almost reach the stars.

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Cortes
Cortes


Adventuring Hero
posted December 03, 2016 03:34 PM

I do not mind the H7 giants. Not at all. I mean, I do not have H7 but bunch of ritualistic suicide dwarves reborn from the volcano they jumped into, is not that bad. I can see them as some kind of "choosen warriors". And at the very least, they do NOT teleport. Would replace H5 Thane with them anytime.
 

About
Quote:
I don't know how advanced the lore was at the time

Maybe this will help?

Following are the description of Thane:

Thanes are not only great warriors, but also possess magical abilities. A Thane can teleport himself into his enemies' ranks, slaughtering them by brute strength with his axe. In addition, his axe fires off lightning bolts, striking nearby enemies. Thanes are immune to the elements of Lightning.


And Fire Giant:

For the Dwarves, each new volcanic eruption is an important event, an opportunity to pay tribute to their Dragon-God Arkath, and many warriors volunteer to throw themselves into the crater. The few Dwarves who survive the ordeal are fused with the elements of fire and stone. They are transformed into Fire Giants, colossal beings of basalt crackling with lava.




Quote:
power ranger zords combine into the bigger megazord


Say what? Never watched Power Rangers.

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enfre
enfre

Tavern Dweller
posted February 04, 2017 09:52 PM

one of the worst faction in mf, but one of the best in duel maps

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