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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: How to Make a Map Harder?
Thread: How to Make a Map Harder? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
orc
orc


Known Hero
posted June 19, 2017 06:18 PM

How to Make a Map Harder?

Hello,

I am thinking of how to make a map harder? I had the thought of giving extra troops to AI every week, but it seems that timed events can only give extra resources.

What do you think I should do to make a casual map harder? I already made all AIs 1 team so its 1v7 but it still doesnt seem that hard. Having an event of defenders just below enemy castles is not good enough because it means I can always just ammass more troops to strike only when I have stronger troops.

Giving AI production structures might be good idea. However, it must be outside their area, because if it was inside his area, I would be able to concur them. Furthermore, the map im using is pretty much already clumped together and there is not much space left for adding that many creature dwellings.

Ideally I would increase AI production by 50% like having grail but I am not entirely sure how to possibly do that withought the player having any advantage after he concurs the enemies.

thoughts? How do I go about making a casual map with 7 players harder? does giving AI lots of resources all the time make the game hard enough? or do you think AI wouldnt use such resources to max value?

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RoseKavalier
RoseKavalier


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted June 19, 2017 06:27 PM

orc said:
Ideally I would increase AI production by 50% like having grail but I am not entirely sure how to possibly do that withought the player having any advantage after he concurs the enemies.


Statue of Legion on unreachable heroes (or only can be reached at the end of game).

Make repeating "map" events that only give troops/stats to AI near objects they visit (towns, Windmills, Watermills, ...).
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My Let's Plays: Metataxer's Revenge - The Empire of The World 2

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 19, 2017 06:37 PM

Disable Shackles of War.
Enable Vial of Dragonblood.
Disable Town Portal.
Play at Impossible.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted June 19, 2017 06:50 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 19:02, 19 Jun 2017.

orc said:
I had the thought of giving extra troops to AI every week, but it seems that timed events can only give extra resources.

You have to give that town by town. I copied one from some other map, recommended by Salamandre, that I feel works wonderfully for an RMG created map, 50% per week plus 150% every three weeks.
One thing I find quite useful is to make separate heroes pools for AI and player. You do it by only allowing certain heroes to be hired by one or the other in heroes page. Then you can change AI heroes, like adding more prims and better Secs or put an event in front of each town teaching them the good spells. Remember that AI can't hire more then 40 heroes all together and 6 each, so you can ignore the warning that the map has too few heroes available and allow them to have only good heroes. If you only give them mostly skill specialists (of the good specialties) and they are few, they are interchangeable, will cycle often, so visiting different powerups and this keeps them ahead of player for longer.

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Ghost
Ghost


Supreme Hero
Therefore I am
posted June 19, 2017 06:56 PM

http://en.heroesportal.net/maps/search/mystery%20tour

And then WoG is a fun by skilful and the most faster player will be winner, but SoD is a snow by hard game, for noob players
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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted June 19, 2017 07:31 PM
Edited by Baronus at 19:32, 19 Jun 2017.

1 contra 7? Give the same 3 x7 cities = 21 eg. citadel. For one only one castle. May be impossible in 200%...

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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Supreme Hero
By the power of Vivendi!
posted June 19, 2017 07:38 PM

orc said:

I am thinking of how to make a map harder? I had the thought of giving extra troops to AI every week, but it seems that timed events can only give extra resources.



You can add events to town to increase army of the computer. Double click on the town and go to timed events. Add an event and select which players should activate the event. Do not forget to enable it only for computer players. Add resources and creatures to that town and set the event to repeat You can add this to neautral towns, so  when computer captures it, it can benefit from them too.
____________
"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted June 19, 2017 08:13 PM

phoenix4ever said:
Disable Shackles of War.
Enable Vial of Dragonblood.
Disable Town Portal.
Play at Impossible.



he asked how to make a map harder, not plain boring or frustrating.

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orc
orc


Known Hero
posted June 19, 2017 08:15 PM
Edited by orc at 20:20, 19 Jun 2017.

@RoseKavalier

Quite neat. Does AI only take windmill once a week or does he take it more often than that?

also, do you imply that AI would take such events all the time, but I as a player should take care not to step there to get the benifit?

Edit: nvm actually I can restric such events only to AI and not any human player (I cant click categorisation of human or computer but I can restrict it from player 2,3 5 etc)

phoenix4ever said:
Disable Shackles of War.
Enable Vial of Dragonblood.
Disable Town Portal.
Play at Impossible.



I think WOG team saved me the trouble of shackles of war already

but what is it with enableling dragonblood? anyway I think most are OK because wog team.

as for impossible difficulty, well I usually hate starting 0 gold and tick the WOG starting resourcs thing D:

I tried before and all I do is wait till I have capital and start 1 or 2 weeks later the game its boring >.>


bloodsucker said:

You have to give that town by town. I copied one from some other map, recommended by Salamandre, that I feel works wonderfully for an RMG created map, 50% per week plus 150% every three weeks.
One thing I find quite useful is to make separate heroes pools for AI and player. You do it by only allowing certain heroes to be hired by one or the other in heroes page. Then you can change AI heroes, like adding more prims and better Secs or put an event in front of each town teaching them the good spells. Remember that AI can't hire more then 40 heroes all together and 6 each, so you can ignore the warning that the map has too few heroes available and allow them to have only good heroes. If you only give them mostly skill specialists (of the good specialties) and they are few, they are interchangeable, will cycle often, so visiting different powerups and this keeps them ahead of player for longer.


But I want to have tazar and Crag Hack for me

AI can have all primary skills he want but I want these specialties lol.

Anyway I play with specialty boost mode so its fine as all specialits are quite strong (giving HP for special creature + primary skills to special units) so all heroes can be pretty much relevant (but I should prolly restrict each player for his caslte type heroes)

is there way to teach them spells even if they do not have wisdom?

lastly, what other map are you talking about? is there even a way to increase production by %?

I just had the thought that I will give them grail and then destruction of grail when I conquer the town so thats should be ok I hope. (i never enabled descrution of buildings so imma try now)


Ghost said:
http://en.heroesportal.net/maps/search/mystery%20tour

And then WoG is a fun by skilful and the most faster player will be winner, but SoD is a snow by hard game, for noob players

what?

@frostymuaddib

that seems perfect. Now I only need to figure out is the amount creatures given. I do not want to give him archAngel from first week XD

Thanks all for the input

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Ghost
Ghost


Supreme Hero
Therefore I am
posted June 19, 2017 08:35 PM

Ghost said:
http://en.heroesportal.net/maps/search/mystery%20tour

And then WoG is a fun by skilful and the most faster player will be winner, but SoD is a snow by hard game, for noob players

what?


Another way you learn to map is a https://www.celestialheavens.com/search2.php?map_name=illusion+world+iii&author_name=&size=&nr_players=&playing_type=&version=&sort_by=map_name&order=asc&multiplayer=&month=&year=&minimaps=on&results1=20&page=1&action=search&submit=Search

So you can copy idea. I recommend a download, and then you learn to fit up a map difficulty level.
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Fight MWMs - stand teach

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted June 19, 2017 09:35 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 21:36, 19 Jun 2017.

orc said:
But I want to have tazar and Crag Hack for me

AI can have all primary skills he want but I want these specialties lol.

Didn't notice this was for WoG. In Era you don't need to do nothing, just get Conquistador Leaders from Salamandre and you have it all, perfectly customizable. It's so good I can't describe it. But if you want, I can make one basic script selling specialties and add it to blackmarkets or some other object of your choice. I don't recall the name of the map I mentioned but my advice was thinking in HotA, for SoD it's probably too hard and for WoG/Era, well, get Conquistador.

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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted June 19, 2017 10:02 PM

Put 1 peasant vs 9999 azure dragons, on cursed ground. It's not your map that's impossible, it's that players are too nubs. Git gud.
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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Supreme Hero
By the power of Vivendi!
posted June 19, 2017 10:40 PM

orc said:
@frostymuaddib

that seems perfect. Now I only need to figure out is the amount creatures given. I do not want to give him archAngel from first week XD


You can The creatures will be available for ai to buy only when they have building for the specific creature, thus bonus will be activated only when dwelling is created
____________
"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN

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orc
orc


Known Hero
posted June 19, 2017 10:47 PM

frostymuaddib said:
orc said:
@frostymuaddib

that seems perfect. Now I only need to figure out is the amount creatures given. I do not want to give him archAngel from first week XD


You can The creatures will be available for ai to buy only when they have building for the specific creature, thus bonus will be activated only when dwelling is created


seems like im living in perfect world lol

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 19, 2017 10:50 PM
Edited by fred79 at 22:54, 19 Jun 2017.

RoseKavalier said:
Make repeating "map" events that only give troops/stats to AI near objects they visit


this is what i was going to post. set up the map space around their castle entrances, where there is only one hex space to enter castle(not from left or right diagonal). then make the event repeating, only for them. easy peasy. it will trigger as many times as they visit their castle. copy and paste the event at any choke point(only one way/one hex through a space) around them. make choke points around any object they would visit repeatedly, and walah. increased opposition. even the ai can't screw that up(hopefully).


edit: after further reading this thread, i see that frosty already added the idea of adding timed events to the castles. you can use what rose and i said as well, for whenever you take over their castles. that way, their army is always increasing, as long as they're travelling.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 20, 2017 12:34 AM

Salamandre said:


he asked how to make a map harder, not plain boring or frustrating.

If anything makes the game boring it is exactly Shackles of War and Town Portal. And Fly and Dimension Door in their non-HotA state.

Adding Vial of Dragonblood is just for variation and to decrease the chance of getting OP artifacts like Angel Wings and Tome of Earth and Air.


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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted June 20, 2017 01:57 AM

phoenix4ever said:
If anything makes the game boring it is exactly Shackles of War and Town Portal. And Fly and Dimension Door in their non-HotA state.


How can anyone find these boring is beyond me...
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Ghost
Ghost


Supreme Hero
Therefore I am
posted June 20, 2017 03:52 AM

Galaad said:
phoenix4ever said:
If anything makes the game boring it is exactly Shackles of War and Town Portal. And Fly and Dimension Door in their non-HotA state.


How can anyone find these boring is beyond me...


Red orb's trap in RoE style in variant. RoE's AI used to SoW, and Red orb with AI's legion before you has learned how beat to blind & 3 lvl immune. AI searched for victory key. But AB did red orb valueless, and forget to SoW. One good what? AI use more TP, when RoE's AI want not learn to earth, water, and fire. JVC was father to AI. Remember old strategy don't suit to throw in trash, when the spirit of the game. I mean it isn't idea but plan. Red orb vs SoW. I hope AI use to Red orb again in HotA update after
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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 20, 2017 05:14 AM

that's a good point, ghost. you can make a map more difficult by making any text in said map nearly indecipherable.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted June 20, 2017 06:40 AM

phoenix4ever said:

If anything makes the game boring it is exactly Shackles of War and Town Portal. And Fly and Dimension Door in their non-HotA state.


Can you give me an example of a great XL map (i.e has been played, discussed, enjoyed through the community and for years) which has such restrictions, for the whole game? There are none, because what simulates the successful difficulty of a map is the creative variation of design, fights and quests, not the way the stupid AI decides to flee a fight -and sacrifice his whole chances/army to be back in the game later-  because it has not been coded properly, or clicking on end turn while you walk the same roads you already flagged 6 months before. Because a map is never the same road until the end, most of time you have to fill quests then walk back to open the specific border or seer hut.

And the fact that AI is able to skirmish you at SOME moments, by removing the shackles using a border guard, or the fact that town portal should be available after a challenging struggle are parts of the creative plot. Saying they should be banned from all game -from start to end- to have a good game is nonsense, unless you have to share successful examples.

phoenix4ever said:

Adding Vial of Dragonblood is just for variation and to decrease the chance of getting OP artifacts like Angel Wings and Tome of Earth and Air.


This depends on zillions of factors, ie how many relics are potentially available, from seers, random survivors, utopias etc. A good map is not a map where those relics are unchecked in the editor so you can get tome of earth from the first survivor over there. Sounds to me you didn't play much the maps of others.
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