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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 29, 2018 08:40 PM |
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Yup, as a vinyl album I think the game would have been a failure. 
Maybe Heroes Online could fill that slot, though, because a game it hasn't been much of.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted October 29, 2018 10:12 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 22:14, 29 Oct 2018.
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lantranar said:
Galaad said:
He doesn't say h5 sucked, he's just pointing out the issues it had. About graphics, what I dislike is the art direction more than the render, the townscreens were great for the time.
it still looks great now. The only beef I had with it is the monotonous color scheme of each town. What is the point of changing camera angles when every scene look similar (necro, inferno, fortress, stronghold, dungeon). I can barely remember which building does what at this point. It must be a special kind of genius designer to think that civilizations/cultures would pick a color tone to adhere to.
I still hate the transition from 2d (or at least isometric view of H4) to full 3d for adventure map. Not a single version from 5 to 7 has a good adventure map to me. The old school style is much more intuitive and informative.
Well, the creative vision wanted factions to be like "soccer teams", lol...
In full agreement about 3D. And not only adventure map, battles too. Like Sal uses to say, so much time designing detailed models and all we end up seeing on the battlefield is a pixel.
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lantranar
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 03, 2018 10:46 AM |
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Galaad said:
In full agreement about 3D. And not only adventure map, battles too. Like Sal uses to say, so much time designing detailed models and all we end up seeing on the battlefield is a pixel.
im not particularly mind the visual aspect of it, so the battle scene is still somewhat tolerable to me. What I don't like more is that gameplay contents are sacrificed for the sake of these gimmicks.
Age of Wonder 3 also upgraded to 3d graphics but it is still faithful to its core gameplay, if not adding more depth into it (both world map and battle scene).
Hmm 5-6-7, on the other hand, added too much distraction. When you are tired of the scenery (quite quickly), you ll realize that the number of interractable objects on the map that you can see in the whole screen are just around 1/3-1/2 of those in previous titles.
sh!t I just wanted to rant a bit since the announcement of Diablo mobile after Blizzcon today. C&C, Hmm, and now Diablo. This year is not a good year for gamers of our generation at all.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted November 03, 2018 02:28 PM |
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Well to me the only (major) problems of H5 are the art direction and the 3D (and lore, but art direction sweats it). In terms of general gameplay (TotE) I found it to be quite a fantastic evolution from H3.
Agreed about AoW series. When H7 was out I was playing AoW3.
Btw I'm not moderating this board but FYI bypassing the language filter is against HC's CoC.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted November 09, 2018 12:33 PM |
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The main problem of 3D in strategy games is that it is confusing and distracting due to perspective.
That's why the golden age of strategy games was 2D
And why Chess is still mainly represented in 2D in computers even when we long had "3D chess".
However, I do see how for many people it is "3D or bust",
So
3D can be implemented like an isometric view, which can still be rotated.
It is only a matter of rendering settings, the correct engine could do it.
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zydar
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 09, 2018 05:06 PM |
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Next Heroes game must back to the root, to the spirit
Heroes 4 still better than H5,h6, h7 from perspective view, and object interactivity
all game after h4, map exploration is boring and slow
If heroes 4 can zoom, rotate like Stronghold 1, that will be great, even not true 3d
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rafter
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 10, 2018 07:48 AM |
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Edited by rafter at 08:04, 10 Nov 2018.
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At Stategy game, 3D graphic is junk. 3D is good for a quest game, where you search for something. But at Strategy game, I need to see as many as possible units(creatures) at the screen..
For example, Warcraft 3 gamers use a Mod with small creatures. Warcraft 3 has ugly 3D graffic with Rhombs, Squares. But it is famous, because it has many options.
For Heroes of might and magic, if a game continue several hours, the players may view the creaturs and buildings for long time. But for Experienced Players, the pictures of creatures and cities become quickly Boring. It is the same with the music and sounds. When you see a 3D creature and city, the view become boring after 20-30 hours. When a player hear the music for 10-20 hours, it also become boring. I play the game without music, because the game is also quicker.
But, what make me play Heroes of might and magic for many years is the gameplay. HOMM has nearly infinity options. It has 60- 100 creatures, 60- 100 magic spells and different big maps. That are about 3600-10000 options to play.
I like the infinity options to play, but not the view.
The Chess has only 16 units at a small chessboard with 64 squares.
HOMM has bigger maps and 100 thousands options. For a Real time Strategy, the smaller creatures are better.
Heroes 4 has good, balanced creatures. But the Spell system is broken.A hero need to reach level 30, to cast all magic spells. Also, the graphic of the map is not very clear for a Real Time strategy, where a player must decide how to play for few seconds. Heroes 4 is not as Epic as Heroes 2 and 3. It has less options to play.
So, for me the best HOMM as a Real time strategy is something part of the Graphic and the Spell system of Heroes 2 and Heroes 3.
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gemeaux333
Known Hero
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posted November 10, 2018 05:38 PM |
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I rather think Heroes Online is exemplar of what a Homm Game should like :
2D environments and 3D interactive elements (a bit like Total Annihilation graphics/engine)
Some of the views angles were also inspired from Homm 4
It also solved the issue between squares/hexes :
Al units occupy a single hexe, but the size of the unit depend of its power...
... perhaps that the solution to apply this to a AAA HOMM game : play of the visual perspective
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 10, 2018 10:56 PM |
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rafter said:
So, for me the best HOMM as a Real time strategy is something part of the Graphic and the Spell system of Heroes 2 and Heroes 3.
Interesting post besides the part where homm has anything to do with real time elements. Nopenopenope.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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gorman
Promising
Legendary Hero
Been around since before 2003
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posted November 10, 2018 11:25 PM |
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HoMM.... first person view style.... you play as the hero and run around cluelessly trying to find your way around and gathering the lootz and minez XD
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When all else fails... Take notes.... ALL the time... ESPECIALLY when playing D&D.... or Pokemon in my case
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gemeaux333
Known Hero
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posted November 10, 2018 11:57 PM |
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It already exist, its Might and Magic !
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted November 11, 2018 01:14 AM |
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gemeaux333 said:
It already exist, its Might and Magic !
looooool you ethered him there, honestly a high five to you for that hahahahaha
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted November 11, 2018 02:10 AM |
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I think they could mix both styles. Whilst you play with your hero and troops as in HoMM, every now and then you are given a Dungeon challenge where you go with your hero alone, MM style.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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gemeaux333
Known Hero
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posted November 11, 2018 02:45 AM |
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Another point from Heroes Online : you can farm wood, metal and gold as much as you want on the map and by the way hardly lack of them, but rare ressources and XP are to be deserved by fullfilling quest (especially daily and monthly quests)
This is how a HOMM game should work
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 11, 2018 09:09 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 09:37, 11 Nov 2018.
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Haven't played it, how do quests work there? Scripted events? Specific locations? I also recall aow2 had magic-related quests when you built a temple that required you to free a location from neutrals, raze a building, defeat some enemy or some such. But their placement on the map is random which rather sucks.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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lantranar
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 11, 2018 12:23 PM |
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gemeaux333 said:
Another point from Heroes Online : you can farm wood, metal and gold as much as you want on the map and by the way hardly lack of them, but rare ressources and XP are to be deserved by fullfilling quest (especially daily and monthly quests)
This is how a HOMM game should work
not a fan of that grind fest, but I gotta say it nails many core mechanics that Heroes 5-7 failed to do. Hexes system is good, the branching path between might/magic is good. Creatures' uniqueness is good. Best of all, the puzzle (obelisk) mode is really innovative.
Still, that game proves that 2d graphics work way better than 3d. Even if they had to go for 3d, they should learn from Warcraft3: everything should be presented without rotating the camera angle. I cant remember how many times I want to curse when I play underground map in H5-7.
NimoStar said:
However, I do see how for many people it is "3D or bust"
it is the rule of thumb for many publishers right now. 3d = wider audience, 2d = niche market. Personally I find it wrong but thats how it is. Game studios nowadays would find it more difficult to fund themselves if they want to pitch their games in full 2D graphics and expect a positive reaction. The bigger the scale is, the more true it is. Even gamers (younger generations) think that 2d = cheap production.
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gemeaux333
Known Hero
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posted November 11, 2018 05:06 PM |
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Well, the quests in Heroes Online are pretty much like in WOW
When it come to gameplay, Heroes Online take a lot from King's Bounty (more than HOMM) especially with the leadership stat, some in the closed beta joked about the fact it should have been called, King's Bounty Online or King's Bounty of Might and Magic
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 11, 2018 07:50 PM |
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It should have been called Chores of Might and Magic. Or Heroes of Boredom.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 11, 2018 07:55 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 19:56, 11 Nov 2018.
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I am actually curious, what did heroes online do well other than returning hexes? I don't have the slightest idea how the game played out or even how quests worked. And what about might and magic class mechanics, is there some place to check it up?
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 11, 2018 08:48 PM |
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They gave Magic 1 less troop slot and 2 hero actions instead of 1. They could do that because troop slots had only a certain capacity. That in turn meant unit production made no sense - except it did because they made sure you'd have losses, having to fight really tough stuff regularly.
However, there were only two playable factions, Haven and Necro, and battles would work the same because you often had to do basically the same battle over and over again, so it was a lot of repetition. You'd get spells only when leveling-up - they needed to control development so things would calculable for them.
They introduced "range" as a creature stat for shooters - probably their biggest "feat", but since it was an ftp game they had to find some way to create needs tp spend real money...
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