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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: MMH5.5: Lore Thread
Thread: MMH5.5: Lore Thread This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT»
magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 20, 2017 11:32 PM

Ok, but H6 had the regular 2 classes per faction.

I once thought about creating 'Advanced classes', but the limitation of modding don't provide enough tools to make meaningful additions. Also the H55 skill system is already so big, adding additional layers might just make it overkill.
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Skeggy
Skeggy


Known Hero
posted September 22, 2017 11:58 AM

So, this is dragon benefits proposal after all “dragon math” is done.
Basically, player doesn’t need to be troubled with intricacies as long every class in faction gets something interesting and as long the benefits are part of the proclaimed rules.


1.haven:
a-knight
light magic + shatter dark + shatter destruction = word of the chief
light magic + shatter dark + shatter summoning = blade barrier
light magic + shatter destruction + shatter summoning = blade barrier
light magic + shatter dark + shatter destruction + shatter summoning = word of the chief, blade barrier

b-knight renegade
light magic + shatter dark + shatter destruction = word of the chief
light magic + shatter dark + shatter summoning = blade barrier
light magic + shatter destruction + shatter summoning = blade barrier
light magic + shatter dark + shatter destruction + shatter summoning = word of the chief, blade barrier

c-paladin
light magic + shatter dark + shatter destruction = word of the chief
summoning magic + shatter dark + shatter destruction = word of the chief
light magic + summoning magic + shatter dark + shatter destruction = word of the chief

d-heretic
dark magic + shutter light + shutter summoning = empowered fireball



2.inferno
a-demon lord
dark magic + shutter light + shutter summoning = empowered fireball

b-gatekeeper
gatekeeper receives nothing

c-sorcerer
hero receives death avatar spell ability if has 3 or more magic skills



3.necropolis
a-death knight
dark magic + shatter destruction + shatter light = word of the chief

b-reaver
dark magic + shatter destruction + shatter light = word of the chief
summoning magic + shatter destruction + shatter light = word of the chief
dark magic + summoning magic + shatter destruction + shatter light = word of the chief

c- necromancer
hero receives death avatar spell ability if has 3 or more magic skills



4.sylvan
a-ranger
light magic + shatter dark + shatter destruction = word of the chief

b-warden
light magic + shatter dark + shatter destruction = word of the chief
summoning magic + shatter dark + shatter destruction = word of the chief
light magic + summoning magic + shatter dark + shatter destruction = word of the chief

c-druid
hero receives death avatar spell ability if has 3 or more magic skills



5.dungeon
a-overlord
dark magic + shatter light + shutter summoning = empowered fireball
dark magic + shatter light + shutter destruction = blade barrier
dark magic + shatter destruction + shutter summoning = blade barrier
dark magic + shatter light + shatter destruction + shutter summoning = empowered fireball + blade barrier

b-assassin
dark magic + shatter light + shutter summoning = empowered fireball
destructive magic + shatter light + shutter summoning = empowered fireball
dark magic + destructive magic + shatter light + shutter summoning = empowered fireball

c-warlock
hero receives death avatar spell ability if has 3 or more magic skills



6.academy
a-seer
light magic + shatter dark + shatter destruction = word of the chief
summoning magic + shatter dark + shatter destruction = word of the chief
light magic + summoning magic + shatter dark + shatter destruction = word of the chief

b-wizard
hero receives death avatar spell ability if has 3 or more magic skills

c-elementalist
hero receives death avatar spell ability if has 3 or more magic skills


7.fortress
a-engineer
light magic + shatter dark + shatter destruction = word of the chief

b-runemage
light magic + shatter dark + shatter summoning = blade barrier
destruction magic + shatter dark + shatter summoning = confusion

c-flamekeeper
hero receives death avatar spell ability if has 3 or more magic skills



8.stronghold
a-chieftain
chieftain receives nothing

b-shaman
light magic + shatter dark + shatter destruction = word of the chief
summoning magic + shatter dark + shatter destruction = word of the chief
light magic + summoning magic + shatter dark + shatter destruction = word of the chief

c-witch
hero receives death avatar spell ability if has 3 or more magic skills





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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 22, 2017 03:46 PM

@Skeggy: this adds a huge amount of complexity in terms of text additions to the skill system and likely anger players who are not into all this drgaon lore stuff. Also some stuff like word of the chief likely has hardcoded issues.

I think it is more effective to limit the use of  dragon-lore to add some balance improvements to the shatter skill perks, where it will feel sensible to people who care about lore, but not in the way of people who don't.
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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted September 22, 2017 09:00 PM

About the Dragonblood crystals for elemental summoning, why don't you reward them 5 each for each level/perk beyond Basic Shatter XXX? This way, it rewards all perk/level selections within a Shatter skill, instead of rewarding only the Corrupt perk. Total potential crystals from a Shatter skill would increase to 25, so you would have to adjust the formula...

Also, in terms of lore and faction characteristics, I think the following elemental match-up is more appropriate:

Haven - Air

Inferno - Fire

Necropolis - Water

Sylvan - Earth (they worship the Dragon of Earth)

Dungeon - Earth

Academy - Water (fits better to the faction, also it is quite fitting that Necro and Academy share the same elemental, while both don't worship any of the 6 lesser dragons)

Fortress - Fire

Stronghold - Air (Father Sky)




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Skeggy
Skeggy


Known Hero
posted September 22, 2017 10:57 PM

I suppose if the hero achieves certain combination dragonblood crystals will just fall from the sky into the inventory?
Perhaps it would be nice that dragonblood-crystals-to-elementals exchange rates depends on certain weeks, or even better that they can be exchanged only every one or every two months, so that they can be used either to lower the cost of surrendering, or to be consumed in combat like a tool for replenishing mana. That would define magic guild as inherently alchemical and not religious institutions. Even without that option dragonblood crystals still wouldn’t be exclusively religious reliquaries since they are half magic and half anti magic, but, nevertheless it’s always good to enhance alchemy as primary aspect of a magic guild.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 23, 2017 02:31 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 14:33, 23 Sep 2017.

I agree about sylvan-earth, but need to think about the rest. For starters this requires unicorn ability to change to 50% magic proof.

I'm also thinking about possible modifications to description to diminish 'fall out of sky' idea.
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 25, 2017 06:42 PM

Realizing I have full flexibility with the new organization of text files, I'm considering removing the manticore,mummy and wolf abilities and instead move them as mage guild creatures:

Haven - Air
Inferno - Fire
Necropolis - Mummies
Sylvan - Earth (requires unicorn aura ability change)
Dungeon - Manticores
Academy - Water
Fortress - Fire
Stronghold - Wolves

However from perspective of gameplay this is better:

Haven - Water (no destructive creatures)
Inferno - Fire
Necropolis - Mummies
Sylvan - Wolves (H4 style, can step in for easily dying tier2)
Dungeon - Manticores
Academy - Air (was floating town anyway)
Fortress - Fire (Air is actually better gameplay, lack of fast flyers)
Stronghold - Earth (resistance aura)

So not easy choice...
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dredknight
dredknight


Promising
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted September 25, 2017 07:20 PM
Edited by dredknight at 19:20, 25 Sep 2017.

Close call indeed. I like the second group though, creature picks are double justified in a lot of ways.

What you going to change with the 'neutral' creature perks?

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 25, 2017 08:40 PM

At least I think it was a mistake to add wolves to stronghold, esthetically they look if they could have been part of the sylvan lineup:


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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted September 25, 2017 08:59 PM
Edited by thGryphn at 21:04, 25 Sep 2017.

magnomagus said:

...I'm considering removing the manticore,mummy and wolf abilities and instead move them as mage guild creatures:

Haven - Air
Inferno - Fire
Necropolis - Mummies
Sylvan - Earth (requires unicorn aura ability change)
Dungeon - Manticores
Academy - Water
Fortress - Fire
Stronghold - Wolves



Crazy! This was my original idea that I never shared thinking you would never buy into it!!!

But, you're right, the other line-up is better


Which abilities are you talking about removing?? I find only the wolves' Howl ability a no-go...

On second thought, Mummy's casting and Manticore's poison can go as well, but they're not as balance-disturbing...


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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 25, 2017 09:06 PM

I was talking about the hero specializations, not the creature abilities I had already adjusted the all stats and abilities for these creatures to be used by factions.
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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted September 25, 2017 09:29 PM

magnomagus said:
I was talking about the hero specializations, not the creature abilities I had already adjusted the all stats and abilities for these creatures to be used by factions.


Don't you think the Howl ability can be abused to the limit of IMBA? Or, is it that the new Wolves don't stay after combat? Never tried it...

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 25, 2017 09:37 PM

The wolves are comparable in strength to fortress tier 4 upgraded. So currently their growth is overpowered and needs to be lowered from 8 to 6.

This is going from the assumption the summons don't stay.
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Skeggy
Skeggy


Known Hero
posted September 25, 2017 10:54 PM

I would love to see wolves in Haven, humans like to tame up animals, griffins, wolves …
Sylvans would be perfect candidate for water since they are capable for superior adaptation like water …
Inferno – fire what else
Necropolis – mummies or death knights, mummies are more tactical choice since necro might doesn’t have empathy
Dungeon – manticores
Academy – air
Stronghold – earth
Fortress – air is interesting, it does fit in dwarven style, fire need air for their smithies, and well, they use fire but they don’t adore fire, so they are kind of two-dragon faction. On the other hand why not another range unit? For the speed they can always use runes.

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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted September 25, 2017 11:16 PM

I have an idea:


Haven - Air (Dragon connection)

Inferno - Fire

Necropolis - Mummies

Sylvan - Wolves (I'd rather give them Earth and Stronghold the Wolves, but Wolves fit them better)

Dungeon - Manticores

Academy - Phoenix (no kidding, just significantly lower the awarded quantities, should award at most at one quarter the number of awarded elementals)

Fortress - Water (Opposites attract? also, synergies with the present caster. I also considered giving them the Wolves and Sylvan the Water, What do you think?)

Stronghold - Earth


This way, each faction gets a different creature, which makes it impossible combining the awards from different castles. For example, if you reward Fire (or Air) elementals to two different factions, they are in effect over-rewarded, considering the possibility that in some maps the same player can capture castles from those factions and reap the benefits without needing to convert the castles. Corner case? I'm not sure, but even so...


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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 25, 2017 11:36 PM

Sylanna was described as Dragon of Earth, animal & plant life, so I'm good with wolves from lore perspective.

Phoenix is really problem, they likely cannot reach value of 1 per week for long time, also stats 33A 33D is overpowered. Manticore is unique case of level 6 creature with very low A&D, so mathematically keep functioning as tier 5 stack with high HP.

fortress - water, now you are really going crazy
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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted September 26, 2017 12:03 AM

magnomagus said:

Phoenix is really problem, they likely cannot reach value of 1 per week for long time, also stats 33A 33D is overpowered. Manticore is unique case of level 6 creature with very low A&D, so mathematically keep functioning as tier 5 stack with high HP.



What's your current formula for elementals? Are you still awarding 10 dragonblood crystals for Corrupt perk only?

I'm asking to see what it would take to get 1 per week of Phoenix is 1/4 of elementals, or maybe even 1/5. In either case, it won't make a lot of Phoenixes easily and that's OK. If you can get 5 Phoenixes while having 50 Titans, that's still good support...



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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 26, 2017 12:14 AM

10 crystals is currently same balance as 1 advanced shatter. I'm not interested in splitting it, because further delay in growth is not good for balance.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted September 26, 2017 12:28 AM

magnomagus said:
Realizing I have full flexibility with the new organization of text files, I'm considering removing the manticore,mummy and wolf abilities and instead move them as mage guild creatures

What do you mean mage guild creatures? As in summons?
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Skeggy
Skeggy


Known Hero
posted September 26, 2017 12:58 AM
Edited by Skeggy at 01:25, 26 Sep 2017.

Will the crystals be transferable from one hero to another like the artifacts in the case of lost battle and will cornucopia also provide dragonblood crystals?

Edit: Or from one faction to another, like if humans and elves are allies and player instead of two additional units want to boost up wolves production, can the dragonblood crystals can somehow be transferred?

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